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[edbro]

I think part of the problem is not so much not getting an answer but the manner that some answers are given. For example there have been recent instances of implying that a first time poster's problem must not be valid simply because he was a first time poster. I was also a bit shocked at the reply given in the subject altercation that caused one faithful supporter to abandon after using up his value in support.

Many times a question is asked where I'm confident that the staff knows the answer but the post will go unanswered.

There was a recent discussion of JRiver support on the DonationCoder forums. I did not participate in that and I have seen similar comments on Fileforum.

[m1abrams]

I voted about the same.  My main complaint about the support is how the Forum is moderated.  I think people are too quick to delete threads on this forum.  Sure if someone is down right trolling and just not providing any service, delete the thread.  However I have had what I think to be legitimate postings deleted and not even given a notice as to why they where deleted.  If you do delete/lock a thread you should also provide a reason so that the OP can know what to avoid next time.  In the end this is Jrivers forum and they can moderate as they want, however it is a public accessed forum and excessive moderation tends to look bad.

[prod]

It's hardly shocking to suggest someone is being unreasonable. If someone sounds like a troll, then why not confront them with it? If that's the worse experience a person has, then they've led a charmed life.

I was in a paint shop the other day where a guy had asked for and bought the wrong paint. He was demanding a refund, and the shopowner was explaining that he couldn't refund as he'd mixed the paint to order and couldn't resell it. After all, the customer had asked for it. Is the customer always right? Blatantly not. In the end the police had to be called as the customer got violent. Will he be shopping there again? I bet the shopowner won't allow it, that guy can keep his £20.

I suppose I'm just saying that not every customer is worth the trouble.

[JimH]

A sad, but funny story, prod.  Thanks for the laugh.

[jmone]

I support JR to do whatever they want with their forums and I'm almost ashamed to say that I've had one deleted (I coped an earful from the Wife after JR crashed while I was away and not around to fix it and for some reason decided the forum would like to know about it....).  The problem with the deleted thread for me was that I was expecting some response (I don't know why there was not much of a question in there) but I could not find it the next day.  I like the appoach taken by mods on other forums where you at least see the topic followed by a description like "This thread was DELETED - Reason: inappropriate " etc etc
Thanks
Nathan

[sherbs]

prod's story is not really relevant in my opinion. The 'store' analogy I prefer is Monty Python's cheese shop where us sad noobs are John Cleese and JRiver is Michael Palin. After ages of posing questions with negative results, we eventually have to agree, "it's not much of a cheese shop, is it?".

This forum had always been this way, thats why there's a relatively small pool of posters and luckily a few of them are quite knowleadgable, otherwise there would be no point coming here at all. It ain't gonna change.

I have to come here as the software's good but it's really annoying sometimes when you see the way some posters are treated or ignored and then discover you can read a lengthy thread about someone's new truck or office etc.

I rarely ask questions anymore, I'm fed up of bumping them and when I say something a bit derogatory about JRiver it gets deleted. That's happened three times that I can remember.

I must have spent over $100 on MJ/MC over the years and if that guy's used up his $40 worth, I reckon I'm owed about $90.

Peace.

[JimH]

I must have spent over $100 on MJ/MC over the years and if that guy's used up his $40 worth, I reckon I'm owed about $90.

Can you explain why we owe you $90?  Not saying we don't.  Just want to know.

[jgreen]

edbro, I am writing from what I have seen personally:

#1.  On at least one occasion I have replied to a new poster (1 post) with the skepticism that you describe, using the very terms that you describe.

#2.  The reason I have done this, as a fellow customer and without any connection or encouragement from J River, is that I have personally read the flaming, pretexting posts that I originally thought came from a handful of malcontents, but which apparently come from ONE GUY.  The guy I'm thinking of DOES register new identities from time to time and try to make hay out of non-issues.  If you go to the AVS Forum and make a post with "J River Media Center" in the subject line, this guy will log in within a day or so and start ranting.  I know that the moderators there have start deleting his posts wholesale, perhaps they have even banned him.

#3.  Speaking for myself only, I don't post to an audio software forum to exercise my free-speech rights.  And while I appreciate a lively exchange of views, I MUCH prefer the tone on the MC forum, and the general focus on A/V issues and how amazingly cool MC is--subject to bug reports.  If you don't think it's cool, why did you buy it?  After all, you had 30 days to test it out.  I am constantly amazed at the number of people out there who think that other people's sites ought to respect their supposed right to rant at will and have it saved to their server.  Where did this come from?  If you want to speak your mind without restriction, why don't you just open up your own MySpace site and have at it?  This is J River's house, which they're opening up to us, providing you make a minimal effort to mention how cool MC is. 

   

[sherbs]

Means I've got $90 worth of support coming to me. It's not easy to spend though.

[edbro]

edbro, I am writing from what I have seen personally:

Whoa! I didn't start this thread, despite what it looks like. This got split off from another thread and my post was the splitting point.
I don't want to be labeled a troublemaker around here. 

[jgreen]

That's the power of moderation.  In JimH's case, it's more like "Extreme Moderation". 

[sherbs]

I am constantly amazed at the number of people out there who think that other people's sites ought to respect their supposed right to rant at will and have it saved to their server

With all due respect, I think this post is more about the ordinary customer that feels frustration with this place. No one wants to see ranting for no reason but something's here can lead you to it.

The best example I can remember was when someone posted a request, explained why and offered suggestions on how to do it and the whole thing was like an essay, took up half my pc screen. The forum's reply - one word - no. I cracked up laughing, but the poor guy, must have been seething!

[JimH]

That was probably me.  Sorry.  But people can spend 5 minutes writing up an elegant request for a change that would take us a week to implement and nobody else has asked for.

[KingSparta]

That was probably me.

I thought it was me.

[JimH]

Your posts show a lot of questions:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?action=profile;u=6744;sa=showPosts

Did you not receive enough answers?

[JimH]

I thought it was me.

I'm still laughing.

[prod]

Means I've got $90 worth of support coming to me.

By chance, have you bought any paint recently?

#3.  Speaking for myself only

And me also, I couldn't have put it better myself.

[sherbs]

Your posts show a lot of questions:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?action=profile;u=6744;sa=showPosts

Did you not receive enough answers?

It's a shame you deleted all my sarcastic comments, it would maybe give you an idea how frustration builds here.
Look at Sept 3 where I post a problem with burning a DVD. I'm virtually talking to myself for five posts and got no help at the end of it. I could go on but I won't.

This place is not as bad as I make out, I just feel the need to counteract the people that think it's brilliant when it's clearly not and the number of times people complain should be telling you something. The moderators here have been doing it for so long that they obvioulsy can't be bothered with simple noobie questions and would rather be having conversations with their mates. That's understandable, I suppose so what this forum needs is some new blood. How about a new dedicated MC problems forum moderated by a couple of people that have the time and inclination to converse with the prols?

By the way, it was KS that gave that illuminating reply to the guy's request.

[KingSparta]

By the way, it was KS that gave that illuminating reply to the guy's request.

I have asked before for my name to be taken off the Official Moderator list. Note I have no Moderator access on the MC12 forums.

So you should not include me in the "Moderation could be improved".

I should be considered a drive by troll

PS: Some users write a book to ask a closed-end question

I am sure I answered the users question

[Mr ChriZ]

I think an explanation of why posts are deleted sometimes
would be helpful. Although I think posts are deleted
less frequently and with more care now than they have in
the past.

[JimH]

I have asked before for my name to be taken off the Official Moderator list. Note I have no Moderator access on the MC12 forums.

I wasn't aware of either.  We'll remove you.  Thanks for your service.

[JimH]

It's a shame you deleted all my sarcastic comments, it would maybe give you an idea how frustration builds here.

If posts are dripping with sarcasm or rants, I sometimes edit them, leaving the facts.  For example, the sentence above could be removed without changing the content of your message.  Healing your emotional state of mind isn't part of our job description.

Look at Sept 3 where I post a problem with burning a DVD. I'm virtually talking to myself for five posts and got no help at the end of it. I could go on but I won't.

As I said in that thread, sometimes no answer means nobody knows the answer.

This place is not as bad as I make out,

Thanks.

I just feel the need to counteract the people that think it's brilliant when it's clearly not and the number of times people complain should be telling you something. The moderators here have been doing it for so long that they obvioulsy can't be bothered with simple noobie questions and would rather be having conversations with their mates.

Not true.

That's understandable, I suppose so what this forum needs is some new blood. How about a new dedicated MC problems forum moderated by a couple of people that have the time and inclination to converse with the prols?

Start a thread if you think that's what's needed.

By the way, it was KS that gave that illuminating reply to the guy's request.

He has a dry (as in Sahara Desert) sense of humor.

[KingSparta]

He has a dry (as in Sahara Desert) sense of humor.

That's what they say..

Surprisingly My dentist said the same thing in September, and normally my mouth is full at the time I am talking to him.

He had to stop to regain his composure, or I would have had two fillings or maybe root canal.

[benn600]

The best example I can remember was when someone posted a request, explained why and offered suggestions on how to do it and the whole thing was like an essay, took up half my pc screen. The forum's reply - one word - no. I cracked up laughing, but the poor guy, must have been seething!

I honestly feel like that has happened to me.  I have a tendency to write pages of questions with random stories and complaints thrown in.  Oh, and I like to reference my other recent posts so to fully respond to my posts could take another few pages.

I'm assuming this board keeps posts which are deleted (simply sets a field) so all of our posts are probably still in there.  What I want to know is how many posts I have truly made!  I would estimate 2,000 or more.  I kept posting at night and the next morning I'd think I had dreamt it because my post didn't exist!  This was back before I didn't realize deleting was common.  Now, when I go to lots of work on a thread I copy and paste it to notepad to save.  Oh, and that time I made a post and left the tab open.  I was going to refresh for answers.  The next time I refreshed--this topic is locked or offlimits to you!  It had been but a few minutes!

[KingSparta]

It is best to explain the problem, and details but straight to the point.

Filling the post with non relevant information helps only to confuse the problem, and for a user or moderator to answer the post.

I normally do not read 3,000 word one sentence posts.

[sherbs]

JimH, this can go on and on. I say it's bad, you say it's not and we get nowhere. It's quite simple, either you admit there's a problem and do something about it or you maintain there's not and things stay the same. I doubt you'll lose any sleep over it either way. All it needs is a bit more balance between the important stuff that goes on and the little stuff that users bring up.

As I said in that thread, sometimes no answer means nobody knows the answer

I keep saying this, and it's quite simple, no answer means no answer, "sorry, don't know", " can't help you there" are answers.

[prod]

I keep saying this, and it's quite simple, no answer means no answer, "sorry, don't know", " can't help you there" are answers.

Isn't this thread about moderation?

"Sorry, don't know" is not a meaningful answer, is it? Assuming there's 100 people your question *may* be directed at, if everyone chipped in with their "Sorry don't know" it would get a bit ridiculous. There's a system in place (that works for the majority according to the poll so far), why not use it to your advantage instead of p*****g into the wind?

[TimB]

I've replied that MC's support is excellent and that's true 98% of the time.

I've seen KS make posts that I would classify as extremely obnoxious, rude, sarcastic.  Maybe I was reading them incorrectly, maybe there's a tone or humor thing I'm missing but its what I saw.  Now he's no longer a Moderator but I'm pretty sure he was at the time.

Awhile ago (maybe years) I had a problem with JimH, deleting and temp-banning, which would shock my online friends elsewhere as I'm pretty mild, I've never been banned anywhere and had maybe 2 posts deleted in my 20 years online.  I was upset about iPod sync'ing not working but felt that my thread could have been handled MUCH better.  This led to me to stop using MC for 6 months but I came crawling back albeit at a much lower posting level, more an asker now than a contributor or member of a community.

I've run online forums in the past and it is tough to make everyone happy as there's no pleasing some folks, some have an axe to grind, overall I think JR does an excellent job.  The ability to reach the people that actually write code and their non-defensive attitude is to be praised.

-=Tim=-