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[MusicHawk]

Apologies if this is explained somewhere, but I've searched many messages and the wiki and not found an answer.

Scenario: MC client is playing a smartlist on my laptop. My desktop is the MC server. I add some songs to the desktop library that immediately appear in the smartlist on the desktop, but the remote MC's smartlist doesn't see them.

I've tried various refresh and restart steps on the remote client, but the remote smartlist is not updated.

Obviously MC is caching the smartlist locally on the client; it would be too much overhead to constantly poll for changes. But for how long? I haven't found anything to click that triggers the client to refresh from the server. Do I have to physically delete a client-side file to force the client to reload it from the server? (What file?) What am I overlooking?

Both client and server are WinXP running MC 12.0.308.

[JimH]

The client downloads a library when you start it, so in order to get the client copy of MC to see the changes, you have to exit MC and restart.

[MusicHawk]

Thanks for the explanation. I determined that works, but it seemed too extreme to be the normal method.

Since it is, any chance of improvement, such as providing a Remote Library refresh/reload button somewhere? Ideally, an action that can be added to MC's menu bar as a custom button, and/or as a right-click option here and there.

As it is, it seems a bit user-unfriendly for family members who don't normally hang out in MC like I do, since restarting also means they have to locate MC's start icon in Windows, then navigate back to the smartlists list, find the right one, start it, then to see what they are used to seeing, go to the Playlists view, and (apparently) restart the desired display, etc.

[JimH]

I can understand your point of view, but it won't change anytime soon.

There are a lot of ways people can imagine MC working, but we have to make it work.

[MusicHawk]

I understand that "simple" wish-lists can lead to lots of work (I'm a developer too).

But given the recent poll and debate over how MC should "snap" its borders (which I never noticed because I always run maximized), I thought it would be helpful on a higher level of usability to share the perspective of non-tech family members who really want to use MC "just to play music" through the home stereo, but find it challenging (so revert to their iPods).

[adamsp70]

You don't have to exit MC to do it - just go to File->Library and reselect the remote library. It will reload and you will have the updates.

However i have the same setup as you and agree it would be nice to have this done automatically. If the remote server were to flag an updated database, so that the client automatically reloads the library, life would be sweet ;-)

[Robo983]

bumping up, I think this would be a nice if not necessary thing to have a refresh button. It wouldn't be worth degrading the fast response time I see using the server and remote media.

It really isn't much of a problem in Standard View using a monitor. If you are using Theater View it is more of a problem with a SDT where reading the text in Standard View is a pain not to mention trying to find the mouse to navigate. I add songs at the Server and just discovered I had to do as mentioned above but if my remote didn't have the built in mouse would have been a pain to select Library Server from the menu tree in Standard View. There may be a way to access the Library Server menu item with-out leaving Theater View but again I assume it requires a mouse to do that.

Maybe there is a power cycle command that can be programed to a remote button I'll have to check.

[Robo983]

I have added program buttons to my Theater View using the below parameters to use as a refresh. This appears to be working as a refresh button. I do not have any experience using these commands but does anyone know an advantage to one over the other update vs load to get the Library server to refresh the client. Both just seem to restart MC and bring it back to theater view.


MCC_UPDATE_LIBRARY, 20008
C:\WINDOWS\system32\MC12.exe " "/MCC 20008"

MCC_LOAD_LIBRARY, 20025
C:\WINDOWS\system32\MC12.exe " "/MCC 20025"

[MusicHawk]

Restarting MC with a specific library via a link is much better than leaving it up to the non-MC expert to figure out this step, but it's only a partial solution. The user must still confront the complex MC UI, figure out how to find the desired playlist and start it, then (ideally) know how to switch to Playing Now (or Theater View) to see what's happening. What is needed is a method (even command-line options) for a user to to one-click refresh the library and resume playing.

I started this thread months ago because I haven't found any "average music lover" who can (or is willing to) master MC's UI "just to play music" (it's easy to see why simplistic iTunes is popular even if laughable). Because refreshing the MC library is complex -- several non-obvious steps -- "normal" users don't do it. So they don't get library changes (usually more tunes, but sometimes songs are reclassified or even removed) and just keep playing the old library. Worse, when the server connection is briefly lost, the users are really lost too. Every time I hear a CD in a CD player, or an iPod in a speaker base, I know a user thinks MC is no longer "working" and they simply walked away from it.

This thread is a wish that MC gets a "refresh" library button that reloads it "in place", keeping the user in the same playlist and even display mode to the extent possible. From the user's perspective, just refresh the library and resume playing.

But apparently this is not simple to implement. MC has the same conundrum faced by many database products over the years: FileMaker, FoxPro, dBASE, Access, etc. They all struggled to provide deep functionality needed by "advanced power users" (like the folks who read this board and likely selected MC because of its power). But to be successful these databases ALSO needed to be "usable", plain and simple for basic users to do basic things.

Some database products do this by having two interfaces (complex/simple, or developer/user), others by requiring drill-down from the simple level to get to the power tools. Some allow a developer to build a default custom UI that hides the real UI. IBM split up the power of the Lotus Notes collaboration database system across three different clients -- user client, admin client, developer client -- talk about confusing! Windows Media Player and iTunes do it by presenting a very simple UI, leaving it to the user to discover, understand and use options if desired, and even then, these dumbed-down programs don't come anywhere close to MC's power. Getting the UI "right" is the hardest part of every app I've ever built, and rarely achieved.

[Alex B]

This thread is a wish that MC gets a "refresh" library button that reloads it "in place", keeping the user in the same playlist and even display mode to the extent possible. From the user's perspective, just refresh the library and resume playing.

The views are part of the library, not part of the client configuration. It is quite possible that the last used view does not even exist in the updated library.

The quickest way to download an updated library is to use the libraries menu (the server address can be stored as a named library). A client can reload the current library simply by clicking the name in File > Library > [the name of the stored server library].

Edit: I noticed that the libraries menu was already explained in this thread.

[MusicHawk]

>> The views are part of the library, not part of the client configuration. It is quite possible that the last used view does not even exist in the updated library.

True, something might have changed that prevents 100% resumption after a library refresh, but is that a reason to avoid trying? Upon library refresh, isn't it very likely that the only change is the library's content, rather than the playlist/view deleted from the library's design? Even the library's contents could be broken (missing music files), but MC doesn't recheck it all every time the library is started (with 62 thousand files, I'd notice). In the event of a design reload problem, MC would respond remotely just as it would locally -- fail to do what can no longer be done, and instead do some default behavior or notify the user to choose something else.

>> The quickest way to download an updated library is to use the libraries menu

Yes, that can be faster than the recommended restart-MC method, but it doesn't get the user back to where the previous playlist is again playing. Reloading the library requires that the user knows how to do that (several menu steps), plus the user must know and do all the subsequent steps -- know the name of and select the desired playlist, start it playing, then switch to Playing Now or other desired display to see what's being played.

One compromise solution is to type out step-by-step instructions and post it on the remote computer, but it's still a bunch of steps, rather than one click of the mythical "refresh library" button.

[Robo983]

Alex, I am not sure if I get your drift here. Are you proposing not using the Library server and loading the Library from the "serving pc's" HD maybe through a shared folder on the network? I guess if the media was in a shared folder on the network or NAS and the instances of MC Library were all pointing to that instead of the local hard drive it would eliminate the need for a local media copy on the client.

I wasn't sure this would work but worth a try and the only complication I could see would be if the library was being accessed/modified by more than one PC on the network at a time.

[Alex B]

Are you proposing not using the Library server...

No, I just said that you can save the server address as a named library item and access it quickly from the menu without opening the Library Manager window.

The "shared library" system is a different thing. In my opinion it is better on a LAN, but it has exactly the same "update" problem. The other MC instances download a temporary copy of the shared library in case the library is already opened by one of the MC instances. A reload of the library is needed for getting the updated version.