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Author Topic: FYI - MC12 can work in Linux --- Sort Of  (Read 5087 times)

Rizlaw

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FYI - MC12 can work in Linux --- Sort Of
« on: February 24, 2007, 12:09:52 pm »

I recently made a decision to keep Windows XP Pro on one computer and migrate all of my other computers to Ubuntu Linux 6.10. I have no plans to migrate to Vista. After scanning the forum for info on getting Media Center to work in linux, I found that, for the most part, posters where not having much success. Being an advanced Windows user, but only a novice with Linux, I thought MC might work on a linux box if "WINE" was used. Well, to make things a little easier, I selected a commercial version of "Wine" called "Crossover Office" by a company called Codeweavers. The software is reasonably priced at $40 (home version) and $70 (Pro version) and you get a fully featured 30 day demo to play with before you buy. You also get 1 year of level 2 (internet) support if you buy the Pro version.

Crossover Office, allows you to install and use an impressively large number of Windows apps and games. Not being a gamer, I was only interested in the apps. Crossover provides a complete windows environment in a package called a "bottle". Each "bottle" holds a "c drive", "program files" directory, and a "windows" directory complete with all required open source windows APIs. The idea is that you install each specific windows app into a "bottle" which can be Win98, Win2000 or WinXP based. Each installed windows app runs in its own bottle thereby protecting all of your other windows apps, installed in different "bottles", from interacting negatively with each other, avoiding system crashes. This is a significant difference, in my view, from the way open source "WINE" works. Crossover Office is based on WINE, but more robust and easier to use.

I first tried installing MC 12.0.164 in its own WinXP Bottle. This failed miserably. I deduced from that failure that MC needed to be installed in a "bottle" that also contained "IE6" and "Windows Media Player". Crossover Office warns against installing unsupported apps (like MC) into "bottle" contained supported apps like IE6 and WMP. Anyway, I installed "IE6" from the list of Crossover Office supported apps. By default, Crossover Office created an Win98 Bottle for the installation of IE6. Instead of going with the default install of IE6, I chose a "custom" install so that I could add Windows Media Player to the same "bottle" as IE6. The installation worked flawlessly and when done, I was able to run IE6 in Linux as if I was on my WinXP box.

Now, I wasn't crazy about a Win98 Bottle for running MC12, but this was a test, so I did not try to redo everything in a Win2000 or WinXP bottle. My next step was to download the trial version of MC 12.0.164 and try to install it into the same Win98 Bottle that IE6/WMP were in. After Crossover Office gave me a warning that this wasn't a good idea (which I ignored) I went ahead and checked off that I wanted to installed an unsupported piece of software. I then browsed to the location in my linux home directory where I had downloaded the MC12 exe file and selected it. I then checked off that I wanted this installation to go into the Win98 Bottle I had created for IE6/WMP9.

The installation proceeded. The only thing I noticed wrong, was that the MC window for reading the license agreement was blank, but I could still click on it to accept the terms and off the install went. When done, along side my IE6 desktop icon, I had an MC12 icon (albeit without an MC image for the icon face).  I double clicked on the icon and MC12 opened in all its glory!

So far so good. Now the harder part. My 25,000 track library is on the Ubuntu box on a drive E which is NTFS formatted. Drive C, my boot drive, is a dual boot system (WinXP/Ubuntu Linux). In order to get linux to see the windows ntfs drive I had to first install a special driver package in linux called "ntfs-3g" which allows the linux system to read and write to windows ntfs drives. I also had to remember that, unlike windows,  linux sees everything as a "file" including hard discs. I also had to correctly edit my Fstab file to properly identify my ntfs drives in linux. In my case, my windows E: music drive is identified, in linux, as "/dev/sdb1" with a mount point of  "/media/WindowsMusic    ntfs-3g defaults, locale=en_US.utf8  0  0". Almost reads like I know what I'm doing. ?

Ok, now that I have linux set to see and read/write to my windows ntfs drive holding my music files, I open MC12, go to options and point it to "/media/WindowsMusic/Music" as the "file" where all my music tracks are located. I then tell MC12 to import all the files and 16 minutes and 59 seconds later, all my music files and their cover art are now in MC12 on my Crossover Office/MC12 installation. But will they play?  Yes, they will as long as MC12 has the proper codecs installed (which it does for everything but FLAC  :'().

OK, that's the good news. The bad news, so far:

> a big downer for me, Theater View crashes the program instantly. I don't know why, I'm not that smart. The other 3 views do work.
> I downloaded the FLAC plugins, but I can't get them to install because of the way Crossover Office works. I think it more accurate to say, I can't get them to install because I don't know enough yet. It would be a lot easier if MC12 would auto download and install FLAC rather than forcing you to have to get the plugins from Sourceforge and manually install them.

Haven't gotten to the rest of the program to see what else may be broken.

Anyway, apologies for the long winded post. But, I thought some of you might be interested to know it can be done. Now, here's hoping that someday, in the not too distant future, JimH and company will consider porting MC12 to Linux ;D
 
Edit: Feb 23, 2007 @2:23pm: Just downloaded and updated to build 179 through MC12's check for update. Worked flawlessly, but desktop icon still has no image in it.
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John Gateley

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Re: FYI - MC12 can work in Linux --- Sort Of
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2007, 11:24:14 am »

Thanks Rizlaw! I added your post to the Wiki:

http://wiki.jrmediacenter.com/index.php/Using_Media_Center_on_Linux

If you turned it into a real wiki page, that would be greatly appreciated.

We've looked into porting MC, but it is a hard problem. MC took a long time to develop (you wouldn't believe how long), and porting would require a lot of that time to be re-spent. We haven't given up, but it won't be tomorrow.

j

ThoBar

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Re: FYI - MC12 can work in Linux --- Sort Of
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2007, 05:13:23 pm »

Yep, Thanks heaps Riz!

I'll definitely be giving MC on Linux a go in the near future, and your guide will be a huge help I'm sure!

Not knwig Crossover that well, would Transgaming's Cedega be an alternative to try to get Theater View going? I suspect the gaming support may improve your chances of the primarily direct-x (Cedega's speciality) based Theater View working...

Quote
We've looked into porting MC, but it is a hard problem. MC took a long time to develop (you wouldn't believe how long), and porting would require a lot of that time to be re-spent. We haven't given up, but it won't be tomorrow.

... so good to hear! (without getting hopes up too high  ;))
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Rizlaw

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Re: FYI - MC12 can work in Linux --- Sort Of
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2007, 08:53:38 pm »

Thanks Rizlaw! I added your post to the Wiki:

http://wiki.jrmediacenter.com/index.php/Using_Media_Center_on_Linux

If you turned it into a real wiki page, that would be greatly appreciated.

We've looked into porting MC, but it is a hard problem. MC took a long time to develop (you wouldn't believe how long), and porting would require a lot of that time to be re-spent. We haven't given up, but it won't be tomorrow.

j

John,

Thanks, I went to the Wiki, created a user account and wrote the wiki page you requested and saved it. I have no idea what to do next as far as indexing it into the table of contents. Perhaps you can review what I wrote and make any corrections you see fit and put it where it belongs. ;D
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John Gateley

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Re: FYI - MC12 can work in Linux --- Sort Of
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2007, 10:25:09 am »

Thanks again! I linked the page into the manual at the right spot (from the main page, click on manual, then go down to Operating Systems, and choose the linux page, you'll see the new link there.

j

GHammer

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Re: FYI - MC12 can work in Linux --- Sort Of
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2007, 08:04:19 am »

Very nice writeup, thanks!

As for the flac plugin, perhaps you could copy the dll into the plugins directory and do a manual add plugin. It doesn't look like anything exotic is done when you use the mjp package:
[Action]
File1=In_FLAC.dll
File1Action1=COPY_PLUGINDIR
File1Action2=REG_PLUGIN

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Rizlaw

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Re: FYI - MC12 can work in Linux --- Sort Of
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2007, 01:32:48 pm »

Very nice writeup, thanks!

As for the flac plugin, perhaps you could copy the dll into the plugins directory and do a manual add plugin. It doesn't look like anything exotic is done when you use the mjp package:
[Action]
File1=In_FLAC.dll
File1Action1=COPY_PLUGINDIR
File1Action2=REG_PLUGIN



Thank you. As for your suggestion about simply copying the flac plugin dll to the MC plugins directory and manually add the plugin with the Plugin Manager -- I tried that and it didn't work. Media Center gives a uninformative error. The hidden location for the directory in Crossover Linux is:

/home/username/.cxoffice/Media Center/drive_c/Program Files/j River/Media Center 12

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GHammer

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Re: FYI - MC12 can work in Linux --- Sort Of
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2007, 03:36:25 pm »

Yep, I tossed Linux Mint onto my machine tonight, installed CrossOver Office, setup a WinXP bottle, installed IE 6, media player 6.4 failed to install there as it is too old.
Same results as you, no matter the method, FLAC plugin will not install.
MP3s sounded fine however.

I may play with it more tomorrow. There >should< be a way forward with plugins.
If nothing else I may just copy the reg entries and dir structure from my windows install and see what happens.
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GHammer

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Re: FYI - MC12 can work in Linux --- FLAC & Wavpack Too!
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2007, 01:16:54 pm »

To use the FLAC or Wavpack plugins just get a copy of GDIPLUS.DLL and copy it into the bottle's windows/system32 directory.
Put the plugin DLL in the Media Center plugin directory.
Add the plugin manually.

Presto! FLAC and Wavpack in MC in linux.
Sound so far has been smooth, no hiccups or distortion.

I'd imagine that this would work for WINE as well, but since I have CrossOver Office installed I can't test WINE.
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GHammer

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Re: FYI - MC12 can work in Linux --- Sort Of
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2007, 02:30:41 am »

Here's some lovely shots of MC playing flac in Linux.





Click the nice thumbnails if you want to see the actual images.
It was easy enough to get tweaked and running. But, I still prefer XP.
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brossmac

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Re: FYI - MC12 can work in Linux --- Sort Of
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2007, 09:21:19 am »

Ahhh, this gives me hope!

I just installed Ubuntu on my laptop and have plans of taking the desktop as well.  The program I want most is MC!

I will, of course, put in another vote (desperate plea would be more accurate!) for porting the greatest media software ever to Linux.
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UdoS

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Re: FYI - MC12 can work in Linux --- Sort Of
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2007, 06:08:27 am »

Thanks to all, giving an input,

I just installed MC12 on a SUSE 10.2 AMD64 machine and it seems to work fine so far. I used the crossover standart version, since the prof hast some extensions good for company use. The icon shows the image on my desktop. The only problem, I run into, was the win2000 bottle. Using the win98 bottle, install all windows progs as described earlier, before installing MC. Even the license process runs OK.


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benn600

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Re: FYI - MC12 can work in Linux --- Sort Of
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2007, 06:00:18 pm »

Here's my question:
MC runs on Windows.
MC doesn't run on Mac or Linux.

Which OS would be the first port?  Mac or Linux?

Personally, I have wanted to switch to Mac or Linux but truly speaking, MC is one program I wouldn't want to live without.  Then comes the issue of which OS to switch to.  I like Linux because of its open nature but at least Mac OS has some big advantages--such as having a good company that really manages the whole experience well.

This makes me wonder if I'm making a mistake by setting up my 7TB server with Windows.  I really wanted Windows in the first place because I want to run MC's library server on the same, single server without needing to run two servers.  I guess I'll just be fine with Windows and NTFS for now.  Who knows, I may want to switch it all around again in a few years and move to Linux or a Mac server...I guess that's probably unlikely, though.
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JONCAT

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Re: FYI - MC12 can work in Linux --- Sort Of
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2007, 12:41:55 pm »

I tried to install MC12 on Linux Mint with IE6 and WMP9. It installs okay but lockups after importing files or browsing via the tree. The image Tiles start to load if I browse a folder via the tree and then MC locks up.

Actually have more problems now....playback starts with mp3 but nothing in display to indicate it has, also can't stop playback...MC locks during play.

Anyone still running Linux with a new version of MC12?

I couldn't get Airfoil to work either with Crossover Office. Looks like I'll be using XP pretty soon, unless VMware will work.

DC
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ThoBar

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Re: FYI - MC12 can work in Linux --- Sort Of
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2007, 05:14:23 pm »

I tried to install MC12 on Linux Mint with IE6 and WMP9. It installs okay but lockups after importing files or browsing via the tree. The image Tiles start to load if I browse a folder via the tree and then MC locks up.
Exactly the same here. I haven't had much time to look into it further tho'. Same distro too...
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JONCAT

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Re: FYI - MC12 can work in Linux --- Sort Of
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2007, 02:09:08 pm »

Such a shame....Guess I need to try PClinuxOS, but first I am going to try Crossover Office 6 & 6.1 (using 6.2). I would try an older version of MC but that's not feasible since I want to get Library Server running.

DC
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richard.e.morton

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Re: FYI - MC12 can work in Linux --- Sort Of
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2007, 07:51:22 am »

Here's my question:
MC runs on Windows.
MC doesn't run on Mac or Linux.

Which OS would be the first port?  Mac or Linux?


well, they are both *nix based so a port to use dependancies that are cross platform would allow one port to work on all three platforms... ok, so this is an over simplification but generally true. Until _we_ make the change to linux windows will still have 94% market share. we wont move to *nix until there are the applications we want and the app developers wont port it until there is critical mass... chicken and egg, which is why WINE is such a good idea.

there is another issue of course... you migrate your granny to Linux - cause it is simple enough these days for her to browse the internet - you go on holiday and she has a problem, who does she call? This isn't an issue over professional support availability this is a corporate wide and home issue - informal support, there is not that huge knowledgebase out there, the cost of migrating is not low, it is all that knowledge lost, all that "free" informal support at home and in the enterprise. that is the real cost of migration and it is a huge cost.

Rich
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tombert

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Re: FYI - MC12 can work in Linux --- Sort Of
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2008, 03:34:40 pm »

Hi Rizlaw, I would like to know the performance you are experiencing?

Currently I'am running MC in wine but I lack a bit of "speed" - opening dialogs, clicking on items, resizing the window etc. takes a lot of CPU performance even I'am running a Dual Core 2,6 Gig.
As well, please tell me the Skin you are using. I think that it might be related to this transparency stuff.

Theater view crashes on my computer as well, but altogether I'am fine with MC - it does what its made for - it plays my music library.

PS: Vista was the reason for switching to linux :)

greets
tom
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benn600

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Re: FYI - MC12 can work in Linux --- Sort Of
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2008, 06:02:47 pm »

Yep, richard.e.morto.  I personally don't see much of an end in sight for feature requests of MC and think they are best just going in for the best of the best (bester of the best) instead of spreading their resources thin.  Some of the latest requests are pretty intense...namely my "save all settings/data/info to database + possibly separate media database from user info database and create users/permissions"...if only this was pursued more heavily.
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richard.e.morton

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Re: FYI - MC12 can work in Linux --- Sort Of
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2008, 03:48:19 am »

namely my "save all settings/data/info to database + possibly separate media database from user info database and create users/permissions"...if only this was pursued more heavily.

that is, as you say, a huge amount of changes for such a short sentence and unless very carefully designed a privilege based security system would also make it much harder for (typically non-technical) users to understand and therefore probably has a limited appeal

R
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benn600

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Re: FYI - MC12 can work in Linux --- Sort Of
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2008, 10:09:31 am »

When you go to a HTPC, MC would ask who you are: Ben, ..., ...?  Wouldn't that be neat?  Then it could store my last spot in all the movies we have.  So each user would have their own spot + (big plus) then it should be available on every other HTPC.  That seems kind of important as people get more and more HTPCs.
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richard.e.morton

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Re: FYI - MC12 can work in Linux --- Sort Of
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2008, 10:42:54 am »

we're off topic here, but yes that would be neat, but it is a lot of work for what would be a compelling feature for a very small number of people. Privilege based access rights (users, groups and privileges) are both flexible systems and complex to configure and prone to unintended side effects.

So yeah, i'd love to see it... but i'm not holding my breath - MC working flawlessly on *nix and a great built-in web interface for both pc's and handhelds are both way more important features for me.
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Rizlaw

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Re: FYI - MC12 can work in Linux --- Sort Of
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2008, 11:09:07 am »

Hi Rizlaw, I would like to know the performance you are experiencing?

Currently I'am running MC in wine but I lack a bit of "speed" - opening dialogs, clicking on items, resizing the window etc. takes a lot of CPU performance even I'am running a Dual Core 2,6 Gig.
As well, please tell me the Skin you are using. I think that it might be related to this transparency stuff.

Theater view crashes on my computer as well, but altogether I'am fine with MC - it does what its made for - it plays my music library.

PS: Vista was the reason for switching to linux :)

greets
tom

Tom,

Just saw this post. To answer your question: I, too, am running an AMD FX-60 dual core system (2.6Ghz) with 2 GB RAM. When I first started to use MC12 under Linux, I used the proprietary (paid) version of Wine called "Crossover Linux" by Codeweavers. I chose this over Wine, because of the "bottle" method they use. This permitted easy and complete removal of software installations which I didn't like or which had gone bad from tweaking and the like. Well worth the small price asked by Codeweavers. All of the problems you have and are encountering, I, too, have encountered. It's the nature of running a layer of software (wine) between the native OS and the Windows application. It also has much to do, IMO, with MC12's reliance on IE6 and DirectX.

To avoid virtually all of the "wine" related problems, I have since moved to virtualization (until the day JimH finally releases a Linux version of MJ12 or MC12). I have found that using virtualization software (i.e.,  VMware Workstation 6, or the free versions of VMware Server or Player, or Virtual Box), you can install a WinXP virtual machine under Linux and run MC12 identically to running it on a Windows only box. Because you are running in a true Windows environment, everything works! So far the only downside I have seen is, that with a large shared music library (25,000+ tracks), there is an occasional stutter in the music playback when MC12 initially opens and rescans the music library for any new tracks while simultaneously trying to play music. It stops once the scan is finished. Other than that, everything else I use in MC12 works, including Theatre View. In addition, if you use Virtual Box you can open the Windows virtual machine to a full screen borderless window and you would never know you were actually running Linux as the Host operating system (caveat: you can't run Compiz/Beryl eye candy). VMware does pretty much the same without the "caveat" aforementioned. For now, I think it's the best way to run MC12 or MJ12 under Linux. Speed wise, I find VMware Workstation 6 runs a little faster than Virtual Box, but I think you will be surprise at how fast virtualized Windows runs under Linux with a reasonably fast dual core machine. My Windows VM is set for 1024 MB ram and 1 cpu using VMware Workstation 6.02.
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tombert

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Re: FYI - MC12 can work in Linux --- Sort Of
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2008, 06:54:36 pm »

...
We haven't given up, but it won't be tomorrow.
...

Ah! I can see light at the end of the tunnel!  8)
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