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Author Topic: Encoders and Encoding  (Read 2260 times)

jolo

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Encoders and Encoding
« on: March 12, 2008, 12:09:54 am »

I have questions about the encoders that are in MC 12.  I am using the latest version 12.0.451.

First question  is, what encoder versions are being used for:

  • Flac
  • Ogg
  • MP3 (I assume LAME is being used?]
  • APE

When I converted WAV to FLAC, "Add 4k padding block". What does that mean ?? It appears to be the default.

If I wanted to update some of the encoders being used by MC 12 (I don't know if I want to), or add some, can I ??

I have to assume that it is not as simple as adding the encoder's
  • DLL
  • EXE
  • ENC
Files somewhere in the JRiver folder ??

Thanks,

Jon T


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scthom

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Re: Encoders and Encoding
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2008, 01:51:32 am »

I was the author of the flac plugins before JRiver took them over to include them in the distribution.  The last version of flac I used was 1.1.4.  The official flac is up to 1.2.1 but the changes are really very minimal and won't affect the losslessness of your files.  I'm not 100% sure about the ogg, APE, and MP3 plugins (yes, they use LAME), so I'll leave that to someone else.

The 4k padding block in flac is to reserve space for tags at the beginning of the file, so that you don't have to rewrite the file later.  I'd recommend doing it.

Adding more encoders is generally not as simple as dropping in a new dll or exe.  MC doesn't just know how to use them.  Exceptions: LAME is there in the standard distribution, so you can just copy over it and MC will use it.  However, the version being used is the highly recommended one, and it's not recommended to overwrite it.  For other encoders, you may be able to use the "external encoder" option, which will look for an external exe file.  For best results, however, encoders and decoders need to have specialized plugins written which interface between the encoder and MC.  That's what I did for flac before passing the baton.  I still have wavpack plugins that are not included with MC on my mcplugins Sourceforge site (as well as older flac plugins).
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Alex B

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Re: Encoders and Encoding
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2008, 02:29:23 am »

First question  is, what encoder versions are being used for:[/b]
  • Flac
  • Ogg
  • MP3 (I assume LAME is being used?]
  • APE

FLAC: 1.21 (= the latest release version. JRiver has updated it since scthom's version)
Ogg Vorbis: aoTuV r1 (= the official aoTuV release version. It was released after b4.51. The b5 beta version has been out for some time)
MP3: LAME 3.97 (= the latest release version. After 3.97 the LAME developers have released several more or less stable 3.98 betas. The current beta version is 3.98 beta 6)
Monkey's Audio: 3.99  (= the latest release version. The Monkey's Audio 4.0x beta package has the same encoder.)


Quote
If I wanted to update some of the encoders being used by MC 12 (I don't know if I want to), or add some, can I ??[/b]
I have to assume that it is not as simple as adding the encoder's
  • DLL
  • EXE
  • ENC
Files somewhere in the JRiver folder ??

If you want to experiment with the beta vesions you can replace the oggenc.exe and lame.exe files in the Plugins folder without problems. The available beta versions do not have functional differences and the encoder plugins will continue to work.

It is not possible to change the FLAC and Monkey's Audio encoders.
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jolo

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Re: Encoders and Encoding
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2008, 09:01:46 pm »

As a FYI.

I am going to want to give LAME version 3.98 b8.
BUT ...I would never, copy over the existing Lame.Exe (I assume that it what MC looks at ?
What I would do is first rename the existing Lame.exe to Lame.old. Then Copy over the new 3.98 b8 Lame.exe over to the MC folder.

As a general practice, if I am replacing a codec, and patch, .exe files, dll files ,etc and doing it manually, I would Never write over a version that is functioning, then then you can't bakc out !! I have used the old rename from file.ext to file.old for many, many year.


Others don't have to use rename thing as I do, but I implore anyone doing any  type of replacement/change of version manually, to always BACK UP THE FILE FIRST, never overlay the existing files !!

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jolo

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Re: Encoders and Encoding
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2008, 09:28:43 pm »

I was the author of the flac plugins before JRiver took them over to include them in the distribution.  The last version of flac I used was 1.1.4.  The official flac is up to 1.2.1 but the changes are really very minimal and won't affect the losslessness of your files.  I'm not 100% sure about the ogg, APE, and MP3 plugins (yes, they use LAME), so I'll leave that to someone else.

The 4k padding block in flac is to reserve space for tags at the beginning of the file, so that you don't have to rewrite the file later.  I'd recommend doing it.

Adding more encoders is generally not as simple as dropping in a new dll or exe.  MC doesn't just know how to use them.  Exceptions: LAME is there in the standard distribution, so you can just copy over it and MC will use it.  However, the version being used is the highly recommended one, and it's not recommended to overwrite it.  For other encoders, you may be able to use the "external encoder" option, which will look for an external exe file.  For best results, however, encoders and decoders need to have specialized plugins written which interface between the encoder and MC.  That's what I did for flac before passing the baton.  I still have wavpack plugins that are not included with MC on my mcplugins Sourceforge site (as well as older flac plugins).

Am I understanding this correctly ??
What scthom is saying is that LAME is the only encoder that I can replace with a different version if I want to ???  ::)

The codecs that I use, rather overwhelmingly are Ogg and Flac.

I would like to be able to change the Ogg version as more specialized and sometimes, better sounding Ogg codecs come out on
http:/www.rarewares.com from time to time. That is where I usually go to find my audio codecs. For Video, I always use the latest Divx for video.

I use MP3 at times, when when I might be posting some audio on the web, when doing something for someone else as well as use ole MP3 CBR for the audio on all of my Divx videos for compatibility reasons, with stand alone DVD players.

Ogg is my favorite and the Ogg decoder (and Flac decoder), is a native to Cowon (IAudio), portable media players and I am currently using a Cowon D2 as my portable media player, and use it as well to drive video, photos AND music in other devices. Having the power that it has  (74w), and a wide ranging equalizer as well as several other options for customizing the output, it sound great when connected to more powerful systems.
On my PC I will tend to play FLAC, because it is on hand as well as the fact that I use it as my "archival" format.

At Rarewares.Org, there are new version coming out that might take advantage of 64 bit processing as well as my AMD dual processor, etc. There are some different versions on the Ogg side that I might like to use inside of Media Player.

Just as a side piece. I just saw a new insane portable media player, the A3, that Cowon has out. All popular open source is native to it, audio and video. It is the first portable player than can record in FLAC !!
All I need is the money for it, but I am very happy currently with the flexibility and great quality of sound (and video), on my Cowon D2.
I tend to like to wait with new software or new hardware to wait until a new version is out, then purchase what was formally the top version, which usually will frop considerably in price and is field tested.

With how easy it is to maintain the TAGS in MC, I like to encode inside of MC. When the tags are coded properly, it makes the organization of files on the Cowon PMPs easier and gives more flexibility. I learned that one the hard way. There are choices to use file names or TAG names.



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Alex B

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Re: Encoders and Encoding
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2008, 07:25:07 am »

BUT ...I would never, copy over the existing ...

Isn't it obvious that the user should create a backup copy before replacing the original file?
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Alex B

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Re: Encoders and Encoding
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2008, 07:31:28 am »

Am I understanding this correctly ??
What scthom is saying is that LAME is the only encoder that I can replace with a different version if I want to ???  ::)

The codecs that I use, rather overwhelmingly are Ogg and Flac.

I would like to be able to change the Ogg version as more specialized and sometimes, better sounding Ogg codecs come out on
http:/www.rarewares.com from time to time. That is where I usually go to find my audio codecs. ...

Didn't you read or understand what I replied?

... If you want to experiment with the beta vesions you can replace the oggenc.exe and lame.exe files in the Plugins folder without problems. The available beta versions do not have functional differences and the encoder plugins will continue to work.

It is not possible to change the FLAC and Monkey's Audio encoders.

By the "available beta versions" I mainly meant the encoders available at http://rarewares.org/.

EDIT

If the alternative Vorbis encoder is named oggenc2.exe naturally you need to rename it because MC's Ogg Vorbis plug-in uses oggenc.exe.
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