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[TURBO]

Enjoy:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=528&e=1&cid=528&u=/ap/20020726/ap_on_hi_te/downloading_music_5

[Kurt Young]

It's finally happened.

RIAA, I'd like to introduce you to my firewall.  And as soon as I can find some,

[portion deleted by JimH]

On a more serious note, how far does this need to go before we dissolve this intrusive, overzealous, and misguided organization?

[Charlemagne 8]

Records show Berman (the sponsor of the bill) received at least $186,891 from the entertainment industry during the 2001-02 election cycle, including $31,000 from The Walt Disney Co. and $28,050 from AOL-Time Warner Inc.

Suprise, suprise.

[Charlemagne 8]

After all I have seen, from Viet Nam (Chicago Democratic Convention, Kent State, Etc.), through Watergate, Iran-Contra ... I'm not going to name them all, too depressing ... I still have faith in the system and the fundamental ideals that this country was founded on and I CANNOT BELIEVE that this gross invasion of privacy and "government sanctioned" vandalism could possibly pass into law.
An introduced bill is a LONG way from becoming a law ("I'm Only A Bill" - Schoolhouse Rock) and the sheer insanity of this one will no doubt kill it. I HopeIhopeIhopeihope.
What the heck ... write your congressmen and senators anyway and tell them what you think. While some are on someone's payroll (maybe all of them are) they are not always on the same one. Sometimes they even listen to their constituents. Well ... OK ... write 'em anyway.
CVIII

[sekim]

I'm surprised this one didn't get more responses.

J River wants to know if anyone is using a crack and the sky starts falling.

This group of thugs, and the entertainment industry guys are gonna start knocking at your ports to see if you downloaded dubious music files.

And the funny thing is they want to make this a law. If these things happen, MJ phoning home may be the least of our worries. This could mean that any company in the future may lobby to see what's hiding on your harddrive. It most be true, money talks....

[Charlemagne 8]

On a more serious note, how far does this need to go before we dissolve this intrusive, overzealous, and misguided organization?

Kurt Young,
Do you mean the RIAA or Congress?
CVIII

[Nick LeFave]

Now is the time to fight. Here in the US you have representation in your Senators and Representatives. They all have emails and phone numbers. Remember, study up a little because Senators and Rep's like to know which bills and issues. A good place also to keep up on the war is at www.eff.org . Also you can go to www.RIAA.org and email them there. Don't forget to share this issue with your friends. Write letters to the editor.

I think piracy is wrong but also is emulating the behaviour of data terroist and the Russian Mafia. What next for the RIAA? They find out I have a cdr in my car, so they bomb my car? The RIAA has to realize that the golden rule needs to be applied here, "Treat others as you want to be treated." That means if you want respect, then respect others. Hacking is not respect.

[Dave]

I think a lot of people including myself contacted and re contacted Senators and Congressmen on this issue but to no avail, the bill still passed. Trying to get a law undone would take an act of God. Another way is to minimize your purschases of retail music to give the RIAA something else to complain about. But I think most people wouldn't go that far. The RIAA lobbyiest are probably pouring money into the Senators/Congressmans pocket, which makes the fight from the consumer difficult. If anybody thinks the our officials work and speak for us, they're wrong.
MONEY talks!!, the rest of us obviously can walk.
What a country!

[Ilmar]

Hi

I think you gentlebeings are overreacting a little.

Here in the UK we look up to the USA as a stout defender of the democratic process, capitalism and human rights.

The RIAA are merely doing their job, protecting the rights of the music companies to earn their profits. As music fans, this should be a laudable aim, as the record companies feed and clothe the artists, who would never get an airing without their benificence.

Clearly anyone who steals property of the Recording companies should suffer immediate retribution. Were it not the USA but an Islamic state, you could get your hand chopped off with the mouse still attached. In fact, I think the USA Government should go one step further and create a federal police force whose sole purpose is to enforce copyright, be it in the home, car or at work, with powers of search seizure and punishment.

Meanwhile, the RIAA needs to work closely with internet service providers and software developers like JRiver to eliminate all piracy of music. We as music fans should buy more CDs than we can really afford to support and encourage the industry in this time of crisis.

Theft of copyrighted works threatens the global economy, Wall Street and the World Order, and cannot be condoned.

We all need to take a balanced view of this issue and put forward constructive suggestions, and not descry the RIAA's honest, forthright and sometime desparate attempts at dealing with the problem

Ilmar  


PS: If the RIAA wishes to offer me a job at $150,000 per annum, plus relocation expenses, please add to this thread

[KingSparta]

This Does Remind Me Of A 1966 Movie Called Fahrenheit 451

Insert The Word MP3's Where You See "Books"

http://us.imdb.com/Plot?0060390

[zevele1]

Not only a special police ,but special tribunals as well.
If use p2p is a CRIMINAL OFFENCE as they want,to write a new law for new words for rape,murder and so on
Another special police to monitor the ISP.Social workers to reeducate convicts.The ones with less than 534 mp3 on they computer.The others would get from 5 years to death
A large public debat to re-introduce death penality,ONLY for p2p users in all states
Of cause all of it with money from new taxes.

We do not understand from outside ,because we never learn in school ,that a country where corporates make the laws is a democratie..........

But are you even a country ?Or a super market?

[Charlemagne 8]

The best solution, by far, is to reformat the brain of the copyright infringer and reinstall a more RIAA-friendly operating system. You could do that to rehabilitate ALL criminals but that would be going too far.
CVIII

[KingSparta]

I Had A Simular Idea, This Is All Part Of "Farmers World" Or "The World Acording To Mark Farmer". I Have Been thinking Of This For The Last 44Years Trying To Enhance My Ideas For Total Control.

Hear They Are:

1. At Birth 2-Each Devices Are Planted In Your Head.

a. A Locating Device:
So The Police Know Where You Are And Who You Are At All Times.

b. A C4 Charge
So When The Police Think Your Doing Something Wrong, They Can Blow You Up (Just Your Brain).

[Ilmar]

Hi

Hey you guys, nothing hurts a corporation with political aspirations as much as ridicule (or bad accountants)...

go easy...  hmmm.... maybe next week!

Ilmar

[BigMike]

I am a musician. I play in a band every weekend, and have for over 30 years. I also do session work for recording artist. I play keyboards, and I have my own studio at home. I remember a time not that many years back, when "ART" was an intrical part of the music. I remember when mainstream was a word seldom used to describe music. I remember when radio stations would play a variety of different styles and artist. I remember when the recording industry gave the people what they wanted, instead of telling the people what they wanted. I remember when local bands use to be able to find plenty of work and were repsected, now they are being phased out.  For many serious musicians, modern times are tough. Even top 40 cover bands are having a hard time of it, since much of todays music is loaded with studio tricks as opposed to actual talented musicians. Duplicating this junk on stage can be next to impossible.

The internet has breathed new life into music. People are getting to hear artist and styles they would of never even knew existed a few years ago. People are no longer faced with buying a CD with maybe only one or two good songs on it. People are no longer faced with the recording industry telling them what artist and styles they are going to listen to. People can even listen to recordings that are not available anymore. Recordings that can no longer be ordered, or found anywhere else. The internet is a wonderful thing.

One thing is a fact. The internet has changed the music industry for ever. There is no going back. No file-blocking scheme is ever going to work. What ever they come up with, it will be defeated a day later by somebody, somewhere.  It's over, plain and simple. Not to many people are feeling sorry for the recording industry either, considering how for years they have cheated artist, stuck it to the consumer, and stifled the artform. Regardless of which side you take, one thing is for sure, the gravy train is running out of steam.

As more and more artist build and use computers and home studios to produce their music, and distribute it directly over the internet, the less need there is going to be for the recording industry. I personally would like to see the day where the money goes directly into the artist pocket, where it belongs. I honestly beleive that the majority of people would pay for music if the price was fair, and they knew the money was going to the artist themselves. I also encourage artist to attempt making their own recordings at home. Quality recordings are easily obtained with todays home recording equipment, and my favorite part is that it does not have that set-in-stone, everything sounds alike, studio stock sound to it.

Well, that's my two cents worth on the subject. Since I am in the business professionaly, I take it personally. Like many other artist, the music is more important to me than the profits. Must be that starving artist thing or something

[zevele1]

Nice post an good luck

But please you and others
Take time to register,you do not need to give private infos as far as i remember.Maybe your email
If this bother you ,use my email adress
AND PUT THE PLACE ,COUNTRY WHERE YOU ARE

You speak as what? An american musicien at the front line with all this mess?
An english,french,Hong-Kong musicien not really concerned by all the US mess .but really concerned by the opening to others to your music  because of the web?

[DeathRider]

I agree with BigMike.

The only thing I have to say is that I read the book ""1984" by George Orwell"". Maybe it wont be the government that will creat this kind of society but the big buisness's that already think they have us by the family jewls. I personaly would love to support my favorit "artists" but not the RIAA that in my opinion is like Enron, the ones at the top get rich and those that labor at the bottom go bankrupt. I plan to buy my future CD'S from used/secondhand shops from now until things improve if they ever do. I believe in Democracy but am saddend by the current state of affairs such as with the control that the RIAA and Disney and others try to place on the people of this country, they should remember they provide a service for the people and do not represent the people. Maybe people should band together and boycot them to put them in there place.

Just my opinion.

[zevele]

Robert
Bravo
As you will find out,second hand shops and records from labels not members of RI mes couilles gives you still a lot of choose and good music

I do not want and do not mean to make provocation but what is going on now is more serious than 11th september for your country
An outside hater enemy is less a danger to democratie,than an inside enemy trying to run a music reich

[Harry|PLS|The|PLS|Hipster]

An uncorroborated report indicates the bill is unlikely to pass in the Senate. See http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/07/16/184211&mode=nested&tid=167

This nonsense isn't going to end till the Supreme Court addresses the Constitutional basis for fair use.

HTH

[BigMike]

zevele - You speak as what? An american musicien at the front line
with all this mess?

Hi zevele.  Yes, I am an American musician. One of the things I hope emerges from all this mess, is that because of the internet, people, especially young people, will get to here more diverse artist. Some of the best musicians in the world are totally unknown since they do not fit the recording industry's mold, and many have no desire to be famous. The internet gives them a way for their music to be heard.

[KingSparta]

BigMike

zevele is french and lives in Israel

[BigMike]

To KingSparta

I was just quoting a part of his message to me. I thought he mentioned he lived in Israel, but wasn't sure. Thanks for the info.

[Charlemagne 8]

As Zevele has pointed out numerous times before, to the non-US world we seem as if we're run by big corporations and big money. No democracy. Unfortunately there is a basis for this opinion in the actions of some of our corporations and our Congressmen.
We may have been asleep for many years before now but there are more things than 9/11 to wake us up. The super corporations failing due to false books is one. The fact that so many of our government representatives are on some business or group's payroll is another.
But the fact remains, at least so far, that we ARE a democracy and when more and more people wake up to what's happening to that democracy, those politicians that care only about lining their pockets will go away and no amount of corporate money will help them. A good step in the decorruption of Government would be to make PACs and Lobbyists illegal.
The biggest problem with what the RIAA is trying to do is that, if successful, that will only be the start of the interference into our lives. Anyone with enough power (translate as "money") to claim that they are being hurt by the Internet will be able to search and delete whatever they find offensive. It is not much of a stretch to say that it could end in an environment where a post like this and even a thread like this would get us "detained". Certainly this thread would never have made it this far. The fact that is has means that there is still hope.
CVIII

[Kurt Young]

JimH,  

Sorry if I was out of line with the intrusion countermeasures comment, but it's what I felt.  It was mostly tongue-in-cheek, as the "On a more serious note" preface to my next sentance indicated, but it was, I believe, a valid opinion.  

Nobody has the right to go plucking through my hard drive on a self-indulgent digital witch hunt.  They do not have the right to launch what amounts to a denial-of-service attack on me.  It becomes exponentially more intolerable when the RIAA can pay millions of dollars to politicians so that they can write their own legislature which allows them to do so without warning and without a warrant.  

This proposed law, when paraphrased, says "Here in America, the authorities can't come into your home through the door without a court-issued warrant; they can, however, enter through your internet connection, without a warrant, and with little to no probable cause."

If employees of the RIAA come to my house, bash down my door, unplug my internet connection, and start deleting files, they will be met with a shotgun.  If instead they choose to do it through my internet connection, I will be lamenting my lack of a virtual shotgun.  That's where my fantasy of intrusion countermeasures sprung from.

I ask you, unless you volunteer the information, how will the RIAA know that you are sharing mp3's?  Will they port-scan you, looking for services running on whichever ports KaZaA uses?  Will they begin to circulate mp3 files that are imbedded with a sub7-sytle bot, that will search your drives for mp3's and then "call home" if it finds them?  Perhaps the bot'll just delete them outright?  Perhaps they'll use it to log your keystrokes (don't worry, they'll ignore your credit card numbers and passwords... they just want your mp3's) to monitor for occurences of "mp3"?  It is not possible to obtain that kind of information without using virus-like or hack-like methods.  Oh, and did I mention that if -you- do any of this stuff that it's against the law?  Thus my outrage.  Thus my desire to give them a retributional (*not* pre-emptive) virtual pimpslap.

Charlemagne 8, my reference to "this intrusive, overzealous, and misguided organization" is referring to the RIAA, not Congress.  How soon will it be until they find a way to make -honest money- from mp3 (and other file) sharing, rather than writing more and more legislature which is becoming increasingly blunt, ignorant, and obtuse?  They continue to try to stick their thumbs in the **, but they ran out of thumbs long ago (most of them were already otherwise occupied, hehehe).

Perhaps they should hire more marketing agents and less lawyers.

[Charlemagne 8]

KurtYoung,

... but they ran out of thumbs long ago (most of them were already otherwise occupied, hehehe).

So perhaps their heads went looking for their thumbs? I had my tongue firmly in my cheek when I asked the question. Thanks for seconding this thread into the great one it is. And thanks to TURBO for starting in the first place. And thanks to Hillary for providing us with such sport. Too bad she's captaining a foundering ship.
CVIII

[JimH]

The RIAA is going to be around for a long time.  They have a job to do.  I don't agree with their tactics.  I do agree that they have the right to protect what they own.  

Kurt's suggestion of "more marketing people" is a good one.  They have done a horrible job of communicating their concerns.

[BigMike]

The winds, they are a changing.

[scodan]

BigMike said:
I honestly beleive that the majority of people would pay for music if the price was fair, and they knew the money was going to the artist themselves.

I honestly don't believe people would.  It would be nice to think that people only stole music these days because they're somehow "rallying against" the big, bad RIAA, but in reality, they're just doing it because it's so easy, and the risk is essentially nonexistent.  If CDs were $2 apiece instead of $15 apiece, they'd still be downloading the music.

[zevele1]

look like -again -you miss the point

What we have now is the fact that people use p2p.I mean all kind of people.From Steve 12 years old,to Anne the 18 years old sister and dad and mam 50 years old.And even grand-dad used it when Steve show him how to get some classic musique

And ,as i said many times this is the fault of RIAA.
When they got Napster closed ,they had to give people music to download at fair price.
At the same time Napster close and RIAA has music to sell

For 90% of the people ,END OF THE STORY

First ,if there is a way to get music for cheap from IRAA,you do not see a new p2p software out every week.This programs are -most of them- here to make money,if not millions people using it there is no point to create them

The situation as it is today is the fault of RIIA and labels-100%

Not to say that you would not have some p2p ,but kind of underground ones
Beside this ,if music from labels for fair price,RIAA would have more moral right to try to fight p2p giving they music to share
This do not means that they would have the right to use the tolls they try to use.
If cds at $2,some will share it,sure.
But as i say :some ,not all like today
If cds at $2,some will still stole cds in the shops,but millions others will buy full bags of cds.

There is a point where in a society it is healthy to have pimps,prostitutes,some people using\stealing with p2p.Kind of underground.
Do you want me to list countrys without underground?
Germany many years before
Italia many years before
Spain many years before
China to day
Chili when some of your friends  messed around there.

[BigMike]

Scodan:

I honestly don't believe people would. It would be nice to think that people only stole music these days because they're somehow "rallying against" the big, bad RIAA, but in reality, they're just doing it because it's so easy, and the risk is essentially nonexistent. If CDs were $2 apiece instead of $15 apiece, they'd still be downloading the music.

BigMike:

Your probably right. There are people that are always looking for a free lunch. But that's not everybody. Regardless, the internet has changed the way many people get there music, and it's here to stay, so we are going to have to deal with it, and so is  the RIAA. There's no going back.

[zevele1]

my last post

Why it is more about power and money [for them -not the artists] and why RIAA is stupid

One of the effect of internet is that USA is a small country
English is not the first language on the net
USA is not the first country[in % ]for fast connection

If we speak about music ,USA is just a market ,Europe is a market with more people living there than in USA,many other places are a market with more people than USA

In most countrys there is a kind of RIAA.The logic thing to do is to federate them and to offer a product to people.
For sure the waffen ss RIAA methods need to be put aside once for all

But -and as many other US  internet sites-they act as we are still at the end of 18 th century.Every thing is close,you have only boats to communicade,you can seal a country,you just have to check boats to control what people import
They ask big money to internet radio,as there is not others countrys around to open radios.They do the mess they do now to rule Amerika as they want,as there is not other countrys

If really they care about artists and NOT ONLY THEY MONEY as it is now,they have to know that many artists sell more ,much more records outside USA than inside.
So if they care about artists ,they need to contact other RIAA in the world to find a fair and SOFT solution.

But for them better to be a king setting on a bowl in water closed,they still feel they have power............

[KingSparta]

All This Reminds Me Of When:

VHS Taps Came Out Over $100.00 Each (Pre Recorded). Did People Pirate? Yes Blank Tapes At That Time Where $19.95 And I Bought Many Of Them (I Must Have Over 3,000 Tapes). After A Time When The Price Came Down I Bought The Pre Recorded Orginal Tapes.

For Me It Was Price

DVD? I Bought One A Few Years After They Came Out I Think Single Players Were Running Like $300 At That Time Now You Can Get Them Under $100, The DVD Is Around $6.99 - $29.99. $29.00 Is Not Worth It To Me But $19.99 Is.

So If Music Companys Want My Money And Others CD's They Will Need To Cut The Price And For A Audio Only CD $10.00 Sounds Ok. And What They Want To Charge For A Low Quality Copy Protected Sound File (LQ Audio, Etc...) They Can Keep Them.

I Think E-Music Will Work For Me.

[JimH]

I'm going to close this thread now.  Thanks for keeping it fairly civil.