Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[rlebrette]

During these two last weeks I've faced twice a serious problem with the "Volume Leveling" feature of the DSP.
Until now, nothing has been broken except my ears and my heart has been near from the attack .
Two differents albums have started playing with a volume leveling >+70db. The same album have been played few hours before and after, the volume was correct!
The only thing I can remember is that I've started to listen music after watching a movie.
For now, I've just deactivated the feature.
I will try to reproduce the problem (the power amp off). But until now I've no clue where the problem is.
The PC providing the music is another MC PC server, and the movies are played on a local DVD/BRD player.
Is anybody facing the same problem?
Any idea?

[Matt]

This isn't a known or common report.

Could you provide a sample file that causes the problem to matt at jriver dot com?  What's in the Replay Gain column for these files?

Thanks.

[rlebrette]

The problem is not related to the replay gain, both albums are presenting tracks that have values between -5db and +2db (that's the first thing I've checked).
By the way, they are playing correctly now.
When I've faced the problem all the tracks of the album have been played with a very high correction level. This has persisted until I restart MC (I don't remember if I fully restarted the PC or only MC)
This looks like more an internal state problem. As I've said the only two elements that I've for now are that the music is accessed from another MC server and this behavior have been detected after viewing a movie.
If the problem raises again I will try to gather more information (screenshots), is there any other thing I can do?

[Matt]

I'm sorry, but I'm stumped.

Are you sure it's not just loud because you turned it up to watch a movie?  Movies are normally a much lower level than audio.

Is 'Audio Path' actually reporting a wonky Replay Gain value?

A log (turn on logging in Help > Logging) and screenshot of Playing Now and Audio Path would be really helpful if it happens again.  I'm matt at jriver dot com.

Thanks.

[rlebrette]

I'm sorry, but I'm stumped.

Are you sure it's not just loud because you turned it up to watch a movie?  Movies are normally a much lower level than audio.

Is 'Audio Path' actually reporting a wonky Replay Gain value?

A log (turn on logging in Help > Logging) and screenshot of Playing Now and Audio Path would be really helpful if it happens again.  I'm matt at jriver dot com.

Thanks.

I'm also stumped, I've no clue why I've faced this behavior.
This has nothing to do with the general volume. The volume (internal) was around 15%
The tab "Volume Leveling" in the DSP was clearly notifying me that something like +75dB gain was applied. (and no adjustment level is added)
I try to reproduce, but you can understand that would like to avoid to have this kind of problem again when the power amp is on. And since I prefer to listen audio and watch video with the sound , I've disabled the "Volume Leveling" feature. Then, I just test when I've spare time, and I've to figure out what were the initial conditions.

I will send you all the required information if I reproduce. I've been stupid to forget to do this the second time when the problem has been raised (since I'm also writing software I should have automatically done this) .
Thanks for your support.

[rlebrette]

Hi Matt,

I've just reproduced the problem with the latest build, I've done some screenshots that you can find here. I keep the system running in the state until I get some feedback from you. The logging is enabled but it seems that some elements have changed recently and there's no direct access to the file(s) and when I click on "Step 3: Report problem...", I get an error message "There was a problem saving your log."
Today I've used no videos, so my first thought were wrong, I was just listening another album when I've double clicked on the first track of the new album (Tocata) and run into the problem.

[Matt]

Please grab all the log files manually in [AppData]\Roaming\J River\Media Center 17, and mail them to me.

The issue with the 'Report a problem...' failing will be fixed next build.

Thanks.

[rlebrette]

Done.

[Alex B]

Do you know why the Peak Level column is empty in your screenshot?

I think the "Automatic based on current playlist" gain adjustment option needs the peak values for determining the suitable overall gain level. In addition to applying the usual relative album or track adjustments the automatic mode attempts to make the complete Playing Now list as loud as possible without exceeding the 0 dBFS level (= 100% peak).

Perhaps it should default to 100% peak if no peak values are available.

[Matt]

Do you know why the Peak Level column is empty in your screenshot?

That is the issue.

I'll fix it immediately.

For me, 'Protect' mode engaged and stopped any loud output.  Sorry if the loud stuff snuck through for you.

Thanks to you both for helping find this.  We should also try to figure out why you don't have peak levels, although that's a much less severe issue.

[rlebrette]

Yes I've seen that. I've just checked some parts of my library and I've found several albums that have an undefined "Peak Level". But all have been analyzed by MC so I don't know why it's missing.
I've just started to play one of these album I've the same behavior +80dB   (all amps are off)
But last time I've faced the problem it was on an album which is currently presenting correct values for the "Peak Level".
I'm going to check directly on the MC server to see whether the fields are correctly set or not. Could it be a problem when the server exposes the file to the client?

[JimH]

What OS is the server running?

[rlebrette]

Just checked the files in the library server, they are presenting the same field values.
I don't understand why the "Peak Level" as not been correctly filled during audio analysis or what could have deleted it!

[rlebrette]

What OS is the server running?

Windows Home Server 1

[rlebrette]

I've just started an audio analysis of all albums that are missing "Peak Level".

[JimH]

That may be the problem:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=24031.msg462305#msg462305

A Google search would tell you more.

[Matt]

This is from this change:

12.0.385 (12/5/07)
Fixed: Clips of pure silence would confuse the automatic replay gain boost adjustment.

Basically a clip with no peak level but a valid Replay Gain was assumed to have been analyzed and found to really be silence.

Next build will have this:
Fixed: Files with Replay Gain but no Peak Level could cause automatic adjustment to Replay Gain levels to be much too loud.
Changed: Tuned how clips of pure silence are handled so that their Peak Level will show as 0% instead of empty.

[rlebrette]

That may be the problem:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=24031.msg462305#msg462305

A Google search would tell you more.

Just to be sure that I understand well, you mean that the WMC engine that runs on the Windows Home Server is potentially corrupting the tags?!

[rlebrette]

To sum up:

• Windows Media Center/Extender on WHS is potentially corrupting the files, so disable all this s**t on the server
• The Peak Level will be correctly managed in an upcoming build so even if the Peak Level is missing this will not be assumed to 0% but 100%

[JimH]

Just to be sure that I understand well, you mean that the WMC engine that runs on the Windows Home Server is potentially corrupting the tags?!

I don't know the cause, but I do know that tags have been overwritten on WHS.  The link I gave you leads to more information.  Note that there were two similar posts next to each other in our thread.