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[mstan]

I am a MAC user happily using the MAC version of MC 19 for audio on a Mac Mini.   However, I would like to try the Windows version of MC 19 since the MAC version doesn't do video yet.   I currently have a full version of XP Professional but not WIN 7.    The question is will MC 19 run jut fine under XP?  Is there some compelling reason to shell out $300 for WIN 7 just for MC 19?   Also, when I boot into XP (via MAC Boot Camp) will the JRemote iOS app work just the same as it does for the MAC MC 19 version?  Finally, can I use the same MC19 library setting file as I use for the MAC version?

[BryanC]

I am a MAC user happily using the MAC version of MC 19 for audio on a Mac Mini.   However, I would like to try the Windows version of MC 19 since the MAC version doesn't do video yet.   I currently have a full version of XP Professional but not WIN 7.    The question is will MC 19 run jut fine under XP?  Is there some compelling reason to shell out $300 for WIN 7 just for MC 19?   Also, when I boot into XP (via MAC Boot Camp) will the JRemote iOS app work just the same as it does for the MAC MC 19 version?  Finally, can I use the same MC19 library setting file as I use for the MAC version?

XP will work fine. WASAPI is probably the most pertinent feature missing in XP that is available in newer Windows OSes.

Aside: If you are paying $300 for any version of Windows, you are getting swindled. You can buy 8.1 for <$100 on Amazon.

[mstan]

XP will work fine. WASAPI is probably the most pertinent feature missing in XP that is available in newer Windows OSes.

Aside: If you are paying $300 for any version of Windows, you are getting swindled. You can buy 8.1 for <$100 on Amazon.

Ok, XP it is. 

[Awesome Donkey]

Honestly, I'd suggest Windows 8.1. If you needed the start menu back, I'd recommend Classic Shell (it's free) or StartIsBack+ (costs a few dollars).

[mstan]

Honestly, I'd suggest Windows 8.1. If you needed the start menu back, I'd recommend Classic Shell (it's free) or StartIsBack+ (costs a few dollars).

I have an early '09 Mac Mini and, according to Apple, boot camp only supports up to WIN 7.  Newer Minis support WIN 8.

[jmone]

You really want at least Win7

[glynor]

I agree that Windows 7 or 8.1 would be better.  Features-wise, there is WASAPI, as was mentioned.  There are also some differences in the video rendering pipeline, if I'm not mistaken, and I don't think any of those differences are "good for XP".  Plus, XP is just difficult to support, less secure, and less stable.

It is from 2001.  It is time for it to die.

If your older Mac Mini doesn't officially support 8, it might anyway in practice, but you could just go with 7.  You can absolutely buy the OEM license for Windows 7 and run it, you don't need full retail.

I'd recommend you try it in Parallels Desktop or VMWare Fusion instead, though.  Rebooting to Boot Camp does provide a few performance enhancements (it is worth it for games), but for basically everything else it is a pain and both Parallels and VMWare work brilliantly.  It also takes up less disk space this way, because the VM image doesn't need to include "empty space" (and can compress the file in some ways).

To answer your other questions...

Also, when I boot into XP (via MAC Boot Camp) will the JRemote iOS app work just the same as it does for the MAC MC 19 version?

Yes.  It works the same, though you might have to set up the settings again.  I think you can restore a backup of your Library from your Mac copy onto your Windows copy of MC, to restore the settings for Media Network (so it has the same key, username and password, and everything).  See below for more details.

Finally, can I use the same MC19 library setting file as I use for the MAC version?

Well, kinda.

You CAN restore a backup from the Windows copy of MC over to a Mac, and I'm pretty sure (though I've never tried it) you can do the reverse.  On your Mac, go to Playing Now under the Tree, and then select your Library under the Libraries folder.  Click the Backup button and save the ZIP file somewhere you can find it.

Copy this file over to your Windows install (you can just use a USB stick or email it to yourself if that's easier -- they're small) and you should be able to restore it onto your Windows box.  After you install MC, you can ask it to restore from the backup (settings and the library, or just one or the other).  The problem is that the file pathnames are going to be all broken, because they'll point to a location on your Mac (using a UNIX-style path name), which isn't accessible via the same path on the Windows copy.

If you do this cleverly enough (keeping the file and folder structure intact, and only changing the "root" of where the files live), you can then do a find-and-replace from within MC (using the Rename, Move, and Copy tool) to fix all of the broken links to the files.  Or, you can just re-import them, and use your existing library "structure" (the views and setup and whatnot), at your option.

[mstan]

Ok, up and running WIN 7 in a VMWare Fusion VM.   Two issues:   (1) audio and video out of sync and (2) JRemote (iOS) won't connect.  error message: "Access key was verified but computer connection failed."   Need help.

[Micromecca]

(1) audio and video out of sync

Options > Video > Advanced > AV Sync Correction
(I am not sure how well this will work under a VM)

(2) JRemote (iOS) won't connect.  error message: "Access key was verified but computer connection failed."   Need help.

You will probably need to forward TCP Port 52199 to the IP address of your VM using the NAT Config File

I recommend changing this port to something else for MC on the the VM if you are also running MC directly on your MAC


EDIT: I have been mulling this over in my mind whilst making breakfast and I don't know if your remote will be able to find a route to MC running on the VM, you may need to enter IP:Port instead of the Access Key and even then I am still not sure 

[mstan]

Options > Video > Advanced > AV Sync Correction
(I am not sure how well this will work under a VM)


You will probably need to forward TCP Port 52199 to the IP address of your VM using the NAT Config File

I recommend changing this port to something else for MC on the the VM if you are also running MC directly on your MAC


EDIT: I have been mulling this over in my mind whilst making breakfast and I don't know if your remote will be able to find a route to MC running on the VM, you may need to enter IP:Port instead of the Access Key and even then I am still not sure 

Solved the JRemote access issue by changing network settings to bridged.   

Now, what setting to use for A/V Sync?  Also there are two A/V Sync options; which one to use?

[Micromecca]

Good Stuff, I hadn't even considered bridging the VM Network, guess I needed more coffee this morning

I am not sure if the the different Delay settings are for Source Material or Actual Display Rate. Change the 50,60 etc.. setting 1st and see what videos with different FPS look like, you should also enable VideoClock.

Hopefully someone can clarify on the refresh rate options

[glynor]

Solved the JRemote access issue by changing network settings to bridged.

Yep, that's what I was going to suggest, but you figured it out before I got a chance.

When running a VM, basically the two main networking settings are Shared and Bridged.

Shared means that the VM will essentially be using the same thing as the old Windows Internet Connection Sharing.  It puts the VM behind a "virtual NAT" (which means it will be on a different subnet from the rest of your network, and will be using the host machine like a "router").  This usually works well for outbound network connectivity, but does not work if you need to run a server in the VM.

Bridged means that the VM will be a peer on the same network as the host machine, as though it is connected with its own separate network adapter. Obviously this is what you want for running a server, so it gets a "regular" network address from your DHCP server (or whatever).  This is usually not the default in Virtual Machine software because it requires driver and hardware support from your network adapter.  This used to be troublesome back in the "old days" (think when Gigabit was the fancy new expensive thing), but even the dumbest Realtek onboard network adapter included on modern motherboards will support it nowadays.  Worst case, if you have trouble with this mode (the VM bouncing offline when you hit it with traffic, and stuff like that), you might need to update your network adapter's driver.

I run with all Intel Pro network adapters on the machines where I can, because they don't suck, and I have no issues with it.  But, it also works fine on my Macbook Pro's wifi and wired network adapters.

Now, what setting to use for A/V Sync?  Also there are two A/V Sync options; which one to use?

Hmmm.... I use Parallels Desktop in production, though I own a license for VMWare Fusion 5 too (but it has been a while since I used it).  I do not have AV sync issues with Parallels.  However, one thing you might want to check is that Fusion has the GPU acceleration enabled.  Older versions of both Parallels and Fusion did NOT enable this by default, though the current version of Parallels does.  Shut down the VM, and then dig around in the VM settings and look for a setting to enable DirectX, 3D, or graphics acceleration of some kind.

That might do it.  Also, make sure you've installed the VMWare "Tools" in the guest OS (Windows).  That includes the drivers and it'll perform like dog-poo until you do.

Also, there is a good chance that ROHQ mode might be too "much" for the VM depending on what machine you're running and how many resources you have dedicated to it.  I have a 15" Sandy Bridge Macbook Pro (Core i7, I don't know what speed, but probably the best one they made).  It has 16GB of RAM total, and when I run the VM, I allocate 6 or 8GB to it (I can't remember which and the laptop is at work), and two CPUs.  MC's Red October HQ works so long as I don't try to play REALLY "difficult" files.  If you have a slower machine, or less resources dedicated, you might have to set it to Red October Standard mode to get it working well.

If not, describe more precisely what kind of sync issue you're seeing.

[mstan]

I am using an Early '09 Mini w 4 GB ram.  I am running Fusion 6.02 and WIN 7 Pro.  As for settings  I am using RO standard mode only in MC.  I will check display settings in VM - I recall retina display settings turned on but 3D not sure.  I have also tried giving the VM 2 processors instead of default 1 and 2 GB ram but no change or maybe worse. Symptoms are stuttering video and big audio lag.

Appreciate help.

[glynor]

That's a Core 2 Duo CPU, so honestly, trying to run it in a VM might be too much.  I don't know, I've never tried it with that low-end of a machine.

You can really only give it 1 CPU, because you need the other one for OSX.  And, Windows won't really like running with less than 2GB of RAM, and it would prefer 4GB.  Look for the Graphics Acceleration setting, and definitely set 2GB of RAM and 1 CPU (that could have been the cause of the "maybe even worse"), but...

In this case, you really might be better off with Boot Camp (which will dedicate all the resources to Windows, of course).  An upgrade in RAM might help, but it depends if you want to keep using the Mini as a Mac, or just dedicate it as a HTPC or something.

PS.  Those issues sound like performance problems, not a misconfiguration.  It shouldn't noticeably drop frames (not badly stuttering anyway), certainly not in Red October Standard mode.

[mstan]

No more upgrades to this mini.   I would like to get a new one but am waiting for the refresh.   In the meantime I'll give boot camp a go.   Thanks.

[glynor]

Windows 7 (and MC) will work fine on that machine in Boot Camp.  You probably won't be able to do ROHQ, but Standard should work fine.  Let us know if you have any other trouble.

[glynor]

I should note, even though I dedicate a bunch of resouces to my VM, you don't really have to for MC.  I've run mine with 2 CPUs and 4GB of RAM without issue before (though perhaps on ROST mode), and with slower CPUs than my current Macbook Pro.  But a Core 2 Duo is probably just asking a bit too much to have it run well, and the RAM is a big limiting factor.  Plus, the Nehalem CPUs added improved Virtualization hardware so that probably helps a lot (and not all Core 2 Duo CPUs even included the first-gen VT support).

Any modern Mac that comes with 8GB of RAM would be fine to run it in Parallels, and probably VMWare (though I am less experienced with it, and Fusion tends to be slower-but-more-stable than Parallels).  Maybe not the lowest-end Airs, but any of the Mac Minis can (I have an Ivy Mini and it works fine).

I also use my VM for Visual Studio and other stuff, so I like having it beefed up.  The machine has 16GB of RAM for video editing anyway, so I might as well use a good hunk for the VM when I'm using it.

[mstan]

Now I have an issue installing WIN7 via boot camp using an external optical disk drive.    After OS X creates the windows partition and reboots, the screen goes black with a blinking cursor until finally there appears an error message: CDDBOOT: Memory overflow.     Tried restarting with option key and booting the windows disk that appears but same result.     Can't use internal optical drive as it is broken and my mini won't boot Windows fro USB flash drive.  Now what?

[mstan]

Ok, it is installing now.  Once I yanked the usb flash drive with the windows support software installation started.    I also had to manually download the windows support software and copy it to the usb drive as there is something wrong with Apple's procedure in Boot Camp Assistant.

[glynor]

I also had to manually download the windows support software and copy it to the usb drive as there is something wrong with Apple's procedure in Boot Camp Assistant.

I haven't run into that before.  Are you on an older version of OSX (pre-Mountain Lion)?

[mstan]

I am on Mountain Lion 10.8.5.   

I have also discovered that my early '09 Mini only works with the versions of the Windows Boot Camp support software version 4 that supports 32 bit versions of Win 7 only.  You can install the 64 bit version of Win7 but not the boot camp support software.   So now I am reinstalling WIN7 32  bit version.

[glynor]

I am on Mountain Lion 10.8.5.   

I have also discovered that my early '09 Mini only works with the versions of the Windows Boot Camp support software version 4 that supports 32 bit versions of Win 7 only.  You can install the 64 bit version of Win7 but not the boot camp support software.

Ahh, there's a trick to that.

It isn't supported, but you can make it run:
http://michael.anastasiou.me/boot-camp-x64-is-unsupported-on-this-computer-model/

Worked fine on my older model Macbook (before I squished it).

[mstan]

Got everything working fine under native Windows.  Now all I need is to get Remote Desktop/screen sharing working.  It is getting real tiresome working a mouse and keyboard on a high cabinet next to the TV.  I have tried Msoft's RDC client but it won't connect to the Win7 install.   All my Macs connect to the Windows machine for file sharing but no luck with screen sharing.  This is definitely easier under MAC OS X.

[glynor]

TightVNC.

Microsoft's RDC is only included in the Pro versions of Windows, and it doesn't matter because RDC is annoying in a bunch of ways (even though it has the best performance of the bunch).  The most annoying thing about RDC is that it logs off the local user when you remote in, which means that things like TV recordings and MC's Library Server stop running while it switches.

For an OSX VNC client, there are lots of options, but I like JollyFast VNC.

[mstan]

What about the Windows side?  Is there a VNC server built in?

[Micromecca]

The most annoying thing about RDC is that it logs off the local user when you remote in, which means that things like TV recordings and MC's Library Server stop running while it switches.

Unless you connect with the same credentials as the local user then the console end just locks and you get the same desktop over RDP without losing any running apps  

What about the Windows side?  Is there a VNC server built in?

Nope, you will need to install a VNC Server, Tight VNC as already suggested by Glynor works well.
Seeing as you are running Windows 7 Pro though you could use RDP the way I mentioned above. It is disabled by default under System > Remote Settings.

[glynor]

Unless you connect with the same credentials as the local user then the console end just locks and you get the same desktop over RDP without losing any running apps  

That's true, but it leaves the workstation locked when you close out of the RDC session.  And I usually DO want to connect as the same user that is logged in at home, so that I can access those running applications. I've tried to switch a bunch, since it does outperform VNC, but it doesn't work for my needs in most cases.  It also isn't exactly free since you need a pro copy of Windows.

I like TightVNC best.  There's also UltraVNC which is popular and tends to perform a bit better than TightVNC, but I've found it to be a bit fiddly and (more importantly to me) it doesn't support multiple displays well at all.

Both are totally free and open source.

[Micromecca]

Right, but then you can't access those running apps, which is often the point of remoting in. 

I'm not sure what you mean by this, I have no problem swapping a logged in user between a console and remote session and using running applications, perhaps I am misunderstanding ?

[glynor]

I explained poorly, and edited that post.  But basically... If you log in as the current user, it locks the workstation.  That's a deal breaker on a HTPC, for example.

If you log in as a different user, you can't access the other user's copy of MC, for example.  Usually when I'm remoting in, it is to fix something that is broken.

[Micromecca]

No probs Glynor, my fingers often work faster than my brain too 

I also agree with you on how RDP may not be practical for all scenarios.

[mstan]

Seeing as you are running Windows 7 Pro though you could use RDP the way I mentioned above. It is disabled by default under System > Remote Settings.

I am running Windows 7 Home Prem 32 bit.

[Micromecca]

Apologies, I assumed that your choice of OS mentioned HERE applied to this box too 

[mstan]

Apologies, I assumed that your choice of OS mentioned HERE applied to this box too 

No apologies necessary.  I had installed Pro 64bit but went to Home Premium 32 in order to use boot camp tools and reduce the license fee.

So tonight it's Remote Desktop config and migration of MC19 Mac settings for music to the  Win 7 side. The migration should be easy since all files and structure are on a shared network ZFS Pool on a remote MacPro. 

Appreciate all the help from you guys!

[mstan]

Got the VNC apps working great.  Thank you Glynor!

Unfortunately the MC Mac backup library and settings files don't work on the windows side so started from scratch until I figure out some other solution.   

Biggest problem and surprise right now is getting the Lynx Hilo to work properly.  The Hilo doesn't appear to change sample rates when playing different Hi-Rez files.  Also can't get DoP DSD mode to work.   All this works like a charm with little intervention under Mac OS X.   Didn't expect these hassles on the windows side.  Hmmm... Why am I screwing with Windows?...oh yeah, I want video and audio in one program.

[glynor]

Unfortunately the MC Mac backup library and settings files don't work on the windows side

Bummer.  I wasn't sure about that.

You can go ahead and install the TightVNC Mirror driver if you didn't.  It makes a big difference in responsiveness, so I'd recommend it.  However, DO NOT install it if you are on Windows 8.1, as I've had it bork mouse input completely.

[glynor]

Why am I screwing with Windows?...oh yeah, I want video and audio in one program.

Here's hoping they implement video and Theater View support on OSX soon.  I'd love to use the native Mac version on my Laptop instead (and not have to bootcamp any potential future Minis), but not yet...

[mstan]

I just bought a win7 HP OEM license pack 64 bit.  Before I open it a few questions.  I currently have win7 32 bit installed from ms image file; do i need to reinstall using the OPK disks and will the 64 bit license work on the 32 bit install?

[mstan]

It worked without a problem.

[glynor]

It worked without a problem.

Yeah, I meant to come back and answer.

Windows 7 license keys work for either 32-bit or 64-bit versions.  So, if you have a Home Premium key, it'll work with either 32-bit or 64-bit.  You don't have to worry about that.

Now, your disc that came in the package will only install a 64-bit copy of Windows.  The disc itself includes the 32-bit and 64-bit (and Professional, and Ultimate) code, but it will only install Home Premium 64-bit when you use that disc.  You can "unlock" the disc by simply deleting the ei.cfg file (this is easiest if you make a USB drive installer, but you can do it with clever use of ImgBurn and a blank disc if you want physical media).

It sounds like you already have all that handled, though, so it shouldn't matter.

Also, to note: You cannot "upgrade" a 32-bit copy of Windows 7 "in place" to 64-bit (or the reverse).  You can go from Home to Pro, or whatever, up the chain, but you can't "go back" easily and you can't switch between 32/64-bit.  So, you'd need to nuke and start over to switch to 64-bit at this point.  Since you have an old Mini (that Apple will probably never release new drivers for again), I'd probably leave it alone.

Lastly, so you're aware how licensing works.  With an OEM copy, it will only "activate online" essentially once.  If you ever change how you're running it (to a different machine or into a VM, for example) you'll have to call to activate.  You can do it, though, and the automated thing will give you the code to activate.

[mstan]

Lastly, so you're aware how licensing works.  With an OEM copy, it will only "activate online" essentially once.  If you ever change how you're running it (to a different machine or into a VM, for example) you'll have to call to activate.  You can do it, though, and the automated thing will give you the code to activate.

You mean I can call an automated telephone number and it will give me a new code? 

By the way, even though I had to create the WIN7 library from scratch, I made it considerably easier by using the "update tags from library" for the custom field ("record label") I created in the Mac library (after checking the update file tag option in field management) and then the opposite ("update library from tag") in the WIN7 library.    Only thing is, though, it took MC Mac 5 hours to update 15,000 files while on the Windows side it took maybe 30 minutes.   

I have a problem on the Windows side now running the MC Media Server and MC GUI at the same time.   I get GUI crashes when trying to edit tags while paying music; Windows gives error message suggesting you can't run Media Server and MC client at the same time.   If I shut down the client and just have media server running I get strange behavior like failure to play a complete playlist.   So i just run MC client without the server and everything seems fine.  What do I need that server for?  Running other instances of the client on other PCs? 

[glynor]

You mean I can call an automated telephone number and it will give me a new code?

Activation code (which is actually what "unlocks" the copy of Windows), not License code.  The License code always stays the same.  The Activation Code links that License code to a particular installation of Windows, and turns it on.

In theory, they could track how many times you've used a particular license, and prevent you from re-activating it (the OEM copies are licensed for only the physical hardware you install it on, and you aren't allowed to move them to a different motherboard, for example).  But, in practice, if you call, and read the dumb automated thing the huge string of numbers the Activation wizard gives you and then say "one" when it asks how many computers this copy of Windows is installed on, it will give you an Activation Code.

The system is just designed so that they can "retract" License keys that leak widely, and permanently disable those.  So, if you called with Some License Code You Found On The Interwebs, that'll be just disabled and it'll probably put you through to a person.  With a regular person's kind of usage (even a nerd who moves things around all the time like me) you can just call and it'll give you the Activation code you need.  Annoying, but it works.

Only thing is, though, it took MC Mac 5 hours to update 15,000 files while on the Windows side it took maybe 30 minutes.   

Yeah, the first thing (writing from the Library to the Files) is slow.  That has to look at each file on disk, and then actually write the ones where tag data doesn't match the Library.  The reverse is much quicker, because it is just reading from disk and writing to the (ultra-fast, that's the point) Library in memory.

You probably didn't need to do #1, actually, because MC automatically keeps the tags in sync when you make changes, unless you deactivated that option.  It doesn't hurt, and forces them to be in sync, but they probably were mostly already.

I have a problem on the Windows side now running the MC Media Server and MC GUI at the same time.   I get GUI crashes when trying to edit tags while paying music; Windows gives error message suggesting you can't run Media Server and MC client at the same time.   If I shut down the client and just have media server running I get strange behavior like failure to play a complete playlist.   So i just run MC client without the server and everything seems fine.  What do I need that server for?  Running other instances of the client on other PCs? 

That's a good question, but it is probably best to start a new thread on it.

I will say this, though... The difference between "server" and "client" isn't as defined as you're thinking it is.  The Server IS a Client is a (or can be) a Server.  You can even turn on the Server of a Client of another Server (which is handy for remote control sometimes).  Both functions are done by the same EXE, though.

Are you trying to run multiple copies of MC for some reason?  Generally, you should NOT be, and MC won't let you.

All you need to do to enable MC's Always-On server mode is to enable the Media Network stuff in Options, and then go to Options > Startup > Windows Startup and set it to either Media Server or Media Center and Media Server.  To be clear, MC's Server isn't designed to run as a Service (without any user logged in on the console).  You can hack it to work that way, but it isn't designed that way, and you could encounter problems.

[mstan]

I had to manually update tags from library because when you create a custom field by default it does not update file tag.  You have to check that option; unfortunately I didn't discover that until after I had entered field info for 15,000 files! 

Glynor,man,you are amazing!  Appreciate the help.

[Awesome Donkey]

I had to manually update tags from library because when you create a custom field by default it does not update file tag.  You have to check that option; unfortunately I didn't discover that until after I had entered field info for 15,000 files!

Does Update Tags (from library) via the Tools > Library Tools not update custom fields as well without the need to do it manually?