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[Joe.P]

No readme file, and the Help menu "New Improved This Version..." link leads to a post on this forum from several releases ago.

My Experience so far:

* The installer ignored my choice to allow custom installation location.

* On first run the app got stuck on an Internet Explorer bad certificate warning dialog which kept popping up and wouldn't let me get past it. I killed the whole thing with Task Manager, and on the second launch that didn't happen.

* The left-side menu font looks terrible in Windows. Absolutely atrocious.

I haven't tried to actually use it for anything yet. In the first release of this app, editing a tag resulted in all my tags getting corrupted. But at least as of the last version, I figured out how to stop automatic re-downloading of my music which nobody here or at Pono was able to help me with: I went into C:\Users\Joe\AppData\Roaming\J River\PonoMusic World 20\Library\Cache\File List Sort, deleted index.dat and that problem has not returned.

[Cheezmo]

I've found it to be buggy compared to 20.0.100.

When I first opened it it crashed after sitting idle for 20 minutes or so.

I'm trying to "analyze audio" on 140 new tracks I just added, and it crashes part way through every time.

[JimH]

The crash may be due to antivirus.   There have been several recently.  Kaspersky, Norton, Microsoft...

[Cheezmo]

The crash may be due to antivirus.   There have been several recently.  Kaspersky, Norton, Microsoft...

Sorry, I should have said I'm using the Mac version.  No 3rd party virus software.  Here is a crash dump

[Joe.P]

I had a couple crashes in Windows 10 too. Only Windows Defender was running. Happened when I accidentally clicked the program launch icon when it was already running. Doing the same thing in Windows 7 just brings the already-running app into focus. The program also scanned and imported all libraries on my PC and my network without asking where it should look.

[JimH]

I had a couple crashes in Windows 10 too. Only Windows Defender was running. Happened when I accidentally clicked the program launch icon when it was already running. Doing the same thing in Windows 7 just brings the already-running app into focus. The program also scanned and imported all libraries on my PC and my network without asking where it should look.

The crash may be a Win10 bug.

The scan is what MC will do if you don't stop it.  You could clear your library and set up auto-import.  Tools > Options ...

[Joe.P]

The crash may be a Win10 bug.

The scan is what MC will do if you don't stop it.  You could clear your library and set up auto-import.  Tools > Options ...

The bug may be in Windows 10 but since it only happens to this application I don't think we can really blame Microsoft.

The scan is one of those things about which they may say "it's not a bug, it's a feature", but it's neither: it's a defect. Installation is not well-designed.

And yes I work in software testing. 

[JimH]

If you work in software testing, you may understand that a bug may not be found unless the right circumstances exist.

That is why you cannot rule out a bug in the OS or in a driver just because everything else works.

I'm sorry, but I don't know what is causing your problem.  Did you try Pono support?

[Joe.P]

I can reproduce that bug on three different clean installations of Windows 10. And no I haven't contacted Pono Support this time, because it's not a serious problem for me, and anyway they have never been able help with this software. I'm posting here because bug reports to Pono Support never seem to get to JRiver, or are ignored at JRiver. See my other posts for information on other problems I had to fix myself or just learn to live with after failing to get any help from Pono Support or anyone on this JRiver forum. I stopped buying music from Pono last year and am waiting for the quality of the software and support to improve.

[JimH]

I think your comment that JRiver ignores your bugs is a stretch, but support is Pono's responsibility.  We help when we can.

See if you can eliminate Windows Defender as a cause.

Does it happen when you have the Pono device connected?

Any other details you can provide might be helpful.

I don't think you've said what version you're running.  And did you try reinstalling it after you installed Win10?

[l8mdl]

. I stopped buying music from Pono last year and am waiting for the quality of the software and support to improve.

Thousands of other users have no problems with the Pono software on hundreds of different systems. I' d be checking your installation. You do need to reload PMW when you begin using Win10. Good luck!

[Joe.P]

I think your comment that JRiver ignores your bugs is a stretch, but support is Pono's responsibility.  We help when we can.

[snip]

Thousands of other users have no problems with the Pono software on hundreds of different systems. I' d be checking your installation. You do need to reload PMW when you begin using Win10. Good luck!

Pono Support is absolutely no help with this stuff. You'd laugh yourself to tears if I posted some of the replies I got from them. Most of them just told me to open a new account. (Huh?) I eventually called their main office and spoke to a supervisor who had a clue and tried to be helpful, but he had no idea what to do about these bugs and defects.

I'm experiencing these issues on three different boxes, Windows 7 and Windows 10, with and without the device attached. "Thousands of users have no problems"? We're early adopters and enthusiasts, so we deal with problems differently. Pono needs millions of users, not thousands, but they'll never get there with this level of quality. I've seen the same thing happen to new companies again and again. This software is not the only thing holding Pono back, but it's a big part of the problem. To me, the best thing about Pono is the number of high-def files they have been able to pull together, thanks to Neil Young's relationships and clout. But overall the user experience is not good.

Funny that registering for this forum gets you on the marketing email list for the regular JRiver software. I certainly would not pay for it, given my experiences with the Pono version so far. 

[JimH]

Rather than post about your frustrations, maybe you could post details of what your problems are, without all the rest. 

If there is a problem, and it's reproducible, we will fix it.

A lot of problems are caused by things like antivirus software or driver issues.

[Joe.P]

Rather than post about your frustrations, maybe you could post details of what your problems are, without all the rest.  

If there is a problem, and it's reproducible, we will fix it.

A lot of problems are caused by things like antivirus software or driver issues.

Thanks for giving this some attention. I have actually posted details on this forum before. I joined when I realized Pono Support was not systematically reporting bugs, and there seemed to be no other way to send bug reports to JRiver.

Please understand that the frustrated tone in my last message reflects what happened next: I posted detailed descriptions of the most evil bugs I had encountered. One of you then closed that thread without responding. Then the next time I mentioned one of those bugs, your reply indicated you'd never heard of any such problem. When I explained, you did not answer. And so on.

Here they are again in summary, plus two bonus levels. Only #9 is in formal bug reporting format, but I hope they are all helpful to you.  Feel free to ask questions on the forum or via PM.  

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=96259.msg670901#msg670901
(1) Re-downloading of albums every time the app opens (see also #3 below).
(2) Scrambling of tags for every track in my library.
These happened on Windows 7 and I certainly don't care to reproduce them, but will answer questions.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=98064.msg677856#msg677856
(3) My solution to bug #1, re-downloading of albums, for Windows users: delete index.dat in the \AppData\Roaming\J River\PonoMusic World 20\Library\Cache\File List Sort directory. FYI, a Pono Support supervisor suspects that the re-downloading happened because my tags were not 100% the same as the original tags after I fixed them (see #2), but he could not be certain, had no solution anyway, and just told me to wait for an update. I finally went in and started mucking around myself. Expecting all Windows users to do this (or even just expecting Mac users to empty their trash two different ways) simply will not scale.  

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=99656.msg690118#msg690118
PMW version 20.0.133:
(4) "Help > New / Improved This Version..." leads to an old outdated post on this forum.
(5) Custom installation location did not work in Windows 10. I could not reproduce this in subsequent installations. Maybe it was user error/confusion.
(6) Internet Explorer "bad certificate" dialog blocked the app from opening in Windows 10. This has not happened again.  
(7) The left-side menu font looks terrible in Windows 10. I see this on two different laptops with different resolutions. Those laptops have displays similar to a Windows 7 laptop where the font looks much better. Maybe this is a Windows 10 font fallback issue missed in testing?  

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=99656.msg691440#msg691440
(8 ) On first run, the program starts scanning for music files after displaying a countdown at the lower left. You must jump in quickly to stop it or to limit the locations it will scan, but one time I was distracted by a phone call and then next thing I knew it had music from all over my network. This is very unfriendly, and because it's indicated by very small text at the bottom of the app many normal users will miss this.  I suggest a dialog front-and-center that asks if it should scan, and if so where it should scan. Personally I only want Pono Music World to be the app for music purchased for Pono, or at most only for my high-resolution music.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=99656.msg691440#msg691440
(9) While PMW version 20.0.133 is running in Windows 10, click the app icon in the Start menu. Expected: the app will be brought into focus. Observed: the app crashes. Environment: Windows 10 on two laptops and one desktop, with and without Defender running. No other apps on these machines (ranging from big Adobe applications to free ham radio tools) exhibit this behavior.

New issues:
These happened on only one Windows 10 PC, with PMW version 20.0.133
(10) While the installer was displaying "Installing DirectX components..." I got a dialog with the title "Extraction Failed" with the message "File is corrupt". I clicked OK and was able to continue the installation, but still uninstalled then reinstalled using the same downloaded installer file, as Administrator with Defender off. I did not experience the same problem during the second installation.
(11) While there was no music on the PC, every time I opened the app it tried to import new music. Telling it not to do an import only stopped it at that time. The next time I opened the app, it started the countdown again. Letting it run also did not help, because the next time I opened the app it ran the scan again. The solution was to copy one music file to my Pono music folder. Then after one more run (the results said 1 music file in Library, 0 imported), this problem went away. Note: this was my only PC with no music files and no access to music files elsewhere on the network.


Again, thanks for asking. I know only #9 is in formal bug reporting format, but I hope these are all helpful to you.  Feel free to ask questions on the forum or via PM.  

[Charles Hansen]

(8 ) On first run, the program starts scanning for music files after displaying a countdown at the lower left. You must jump in quickly to stop it or to limit the locations it will scan, but one time I was distracted by a phone call and then next thing I knew it had music from all over my network. This is very unfriendly, and because it's indicated by very small text at the bottom of the app many normal users will miss this.  I suggest a dialog front-and-center that asks if it should scan, and if so where it should scan. Personally I only want Pono Music World to be the app for music purchased for Pono, or at most only for my high-resolution music.

For what it's worth, I agree. For a user who has never, ever used computer audio before, the current default is fine. Many users already have a music player that they've been using for a long time. They may or may not want to switch to PMW (or JRiver), but instead want to try it out first. I always select "Custom Install" and clear all file extensions from the import list to avoid this problem.

Thanks!