Topic: I need 'Sound' advice (Read 12466 times)

Chasoscar · « **on:** November 19, 2015, 04:24:55 pm »

I made some changes to Audio settings in MC20 awhile back trying to see what would give me the best results for my music but recently I noticed not only my MC audio but also my System sound quality (i.e.- YouTube, Netflix, News clips, etc)has degraded.

I am not sure if or what it was I changed in MC that could have caused it. I am not sure if 'clipping' is what I am experiencing because I am not exactly familiar with it, but it is a popping and I suspect that is what it is. I honestly dont feel it is a problem with any of my hardware(computer/sound card/speakers) because all of them are strong, and this started soon after my experimenting in MC. I have done my best trying 'more experimenting' to find what could be causing this with no luck.

If I had to, I would not be able to remember all the settings I have changed(I suffer from TBI/CTE). I did not think that changes I made in MC could also affect my 'system sounds' but I could be wrong and wanted to ask here to be sure.
If so, I hope to get some advice on troubleshooting the problem within MC.
Thanks

Dawgincontrol · « **Reply #1 on:** November 19, 2015, 11:14:41 pm »

My guess is this has nothing to do with MC since it is also affecting system sounds.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #2 on:** November 20, 2015, 12:31:18 am »

Unless he is using the JRiver WDM Driver, having set it as the default device in Windows, in which case it would affect system sounds quality.

Chasoscar, check what you have defined as the default sound device in Windows.

Chasoscar · « **Reply #3 on:** November 20, 2015, 01:59:23 pm »

Thanks for your reply Roderick........ I think there was some sort of conflict between MC20 and my 5.1 Realtek sound card which listed several different entries in Windows7. I was up till 4am changing things trying to get it to work
I finally got it working good in MC but then my system sounds quit working in Netflix & Youtube but still worked with Zoom Player..... weird huh? Anyway when I made changes in Windows to get it to work there, then MC would not work again. I tried disabling some of the Realtek entries in Windows and lost sound in both Windows and MC. I finally uninstalled/reinstalled the sound card and drivers and I think Ive got it working now even though I again have 3 'different' entries. When I test the speakers (with all 3 entries)in the Windows sound console, only two of the six speakers show audio, but in Netflix/Youtube & MC20 all 6 of the speakers are working....... for now. I have my fingers crossed it continues to work because like I said earlier, I have no idea what the conflict is. Thanks again for your reply

Chasoscar · « **Reply #4 on:** November 20, 2015, 03:13:10 pm »

I am still getting some degrading audio in Netflix & YouTube (not as bad tho). It is kind of a popping/studdering and I am not sure this is considered ‘clipping’ but it is annoying and not affected by volume. This recently started to happen with a setup I have been using without problems(including within MC) for a couple of years. I first noticed it soon after experimenting with audio settings in MC and I thought it might possibly be related to those changes. I did check the driver settings in Windows and did not see anything indicating a JRiver WDM driver being used. Would there be something in MC that would indicate its use? Where could I check that? I included some captures of the driver settings in Windows and will be glad to include MC settings if I know which settings will help. Help is appreciated. Thanks

RoderickGI · « **Reply #5 on:** November 20, 2015, 04:07:04 pm »

Quote from: Chasoscar on November 20, 2015, 03:13:10 pm

I did check the driver settings in Windows and did not see anything indicating a JRiver WDM driver being used. Would there be something in MC that would indicate its use? Where could I check that?

Your second image shows that the WDM Driver (see Wiki) isn't installed, so it can't be the problem. I assume that you are using the latest version of MC20, which would be MC20.0.132. Is that correct? If so, as per the Wiki, from MC20.0.95 the WDM Driver isn't automatically installed.

The other screen shots don't help me help you I'm afraid. You have more recent Realtek drivers than me! Well, on my Workstation anyway.

So your sound issues are not caused by MC by the look. Diagnosing sound problems on PCs can be a real problem. I would have recommended uninstalling all Realtek drivers, rebooting, and letting Windows redetect the hardware and install, drivers, but you seem to have already done that.

I'm not sure what you mean by 3 different entries in the Windows Sound Console. If you mean the 3 entries shown in your second image, they are all perfectly normal, and you have the correct one selected for direct connected speakers, the "Speakers" entry. The "Realtek Digital Output" is used when you connect your PC soundcard to an external amplifier or other device via a Coaxial or Optical (S/PDIF) connector, which typically gives you only stereo sound, unless it is encoded as Dolby Digital or DTS. The "Realtek HDMI Output" is used when you connect your PC soundcard to an external amplifier or other device via a HDMI connector, which typically gives you up to 6 or more channels even without encoding the sound.

Anyway, did you check the Configuration of the Speakers entry? Again, in your second image, if you select "Speakers" and click the Configure button, you will be able to select 5.1 channel output, and test each speaker. That configuration is only used as the Direct Sound default though, if a player can't set the output. Because you want to hear System Sounds while playing audio from all sources, Windows is going to mess with your sound. Windows always messes with Direct Sound. System Sounds don't work when an application takes exclusive access control of the soundcard. In MC, using WASAPI Exclusive Mode will stop System Sounds working, for example. In MC WASAPI Exclusive Mode provides the best sound for me, but I lose System Sounds while playing any media. That doesn't bother me at all. You can also use WASAPI without using exclusive mode. If Netflix supports WASAPI Exclusive Mode, I would be using it if I had Netflix.

If you are playing Netflix from the Netflix app, and YouTube from the web page, then you would have to look to changes in Windows to find out why you are now getting artefacts in the sound. It could be anything. A bad Windows Update, a change in the applications, anything. Was there an update to the Netflix app recently? Changes to audio settings in MC wouldn't affect external applications, unless MC is trying to play something using exclusive access to the soundcard while you are trying to use another application to play sound.

Have you tried playing YouTube from within MC, using the link under Video/Connected Media/YouTube? I find that plays well without any lag, and uses MC sound. Unfortunately it is no longer possible to play Netflix from within MC.

So I'm not being much help really. If you are playing Netflix and YouTube outside MC, then I can't help much, because it comes down to your Windows installation.

Chasoscar · « **Reply #6 on:** November 20, 2015, 06:03:25 pm »

Thanks Roderick,
Wow!!! a lot of information and I cant tell you how much I appreciate your time and energy to convey it.

I tried playing YouTube inside MC(I didnt even realize I could do that) but still have the problem. I am still on .131 because I was hoping for .133 before upgrading, but I dont think that is going to happen so I will try .132 and see if that changes anything.

I had a little problem understanding your explanation of the '3 entries' although I have tried using all of them and the "speakers" option seems to be the best option. The speakers I am using thru the Realtec card are Logitech Z906 and they are powered, I believe by an external amp in the sub-woofer. I dont know if that would influence my choices for setup.

Yes I did try the configuring all of the different speaker entry options in the Windows sound console and the only one that would even give me the 5.1 option was the "Speaker" entry. The odd think about that, as I stated above, was even though all 6 of the speakers were displayed when I ran the sound test only the 2 back(behind me) were audible, even though all were 'tested'. I cant figure out why and suspect it could indicate something that might be related to the problem. Realtec also has a test console and the speakers display the same 'only 2 of 6 speakers audible' problem there.
Despite that fact, all 6 speakers work outside of Both test consoles.

Where is the setting to use WASAPI without using exclusive mode? Is it the uncheck option "open device for exclusive access? Sorry I am now scared to change anything without knowing what it does and then being able to remember if it doesnt work.

When you mention the Netflix "app", I am confused.... do you mean connecting to the Netflix webpage via my browser(FF)?

I hate to consider it but I am beginning to think the sound card may possibly be defective. Ugh! I dont mind replacing it, but it would be nice to know that is actually the problem and not the speakers or some setting that I dont understand.
Can you recommend a good/economical sound card that MC likes?

Everything considered, you have been a great help and given me several things to think about. Thank you again for your time.

I appreciate it friend ~~~~

Im not a pessimist.... just an optimist with a lot of experience

Chasoscar · « **Reply #7 on:** November 20, 2015, 06:22:45 pm »

Anything Problematic here?

Chasoscar · « **Reply #8 on:** November 20, 2015, 06:43:32 pm »

Just one more

spiggytopes · « **Reply #9 on:** November 21, 2015, 03:27:42 am »

If you are going to replace the sound card you could consider one which connects to the USB.

Arindelle · « **Reply #10 on:** November 21, 2015, 06:52:05 am »

I'm not going to go into why the sound has "degraded" nor do I know your soundcard ( alittle surprised it doesn't show up or doesn't have its own asio driver, but I don't know the card

) If set-up correctly the WDM driver will give you better sound quality .. and I'm not sure why JRiver would affect "system" sound quality at all if it is not installed ?

However to get good sound quality through JRiver, I would first try un-clicking "Maximize Device Settings" and "Play a little silence" in the device settings - these for me are not default settings

Also you have tons of dps checked. Not saying you don't want them checked, but I'd add them on and make separate zones for them.

- your output settings are set to down sample to 48k, why? -- I'd only do that if your dac does not support anything over 48k (if your dac doesn't support 88k for example, its usually better to upsample to 96k) pretty rare that sound cards would not support at least 96k these days
- you are talking about speakers .. but you have the headphone DSP checked. I wouldn't use this for speaker output -- uncheck it or create a separate zone when you listen to headphones?
- you have both volume leveling AND adaptive volume set ... not a real audiophile choice, although its good for streaming and some playlists ... un-check them to test or uncheck adaptive volume to preserve dynamics?
-can't tell how you set up your eq as it is also checked .. maybe you are forcing it to clip and the clip protection is compressing the peaks?? eg if you boost a band by 5db and you don't reduce the preamp volume, the +5db is often enough to provoke clipping
- effects -- another area that is going to not sound the same streaming stuff or playback from local files I've found .. turn it off to test?

I have a feeling its in your DSP choices, remember that using zones can also be just different configs (eg one for streaming, one for audio, one for playlists, one for headphones etc.), not just for different equipment or physical "zones". Using the default player zone for all media is not always the best solution.

I guess I would un-check all DSPs except Output (and maybe volume leveling if using internal volume). Add back the other dsps you want and see what sounds best for Streaming, local audio etc.

Also make sure you are using the internal volume option (or you could use disabled volume) and not system volume to limit windows pollution and give you some headroom on your dsps.

blgentry · « **Reply #11 on:** November 21, 2015, 07:30:43 am »

Quote from: Arindelle on November 21, 2015, 06:52:05 am

- you have both volume leveling AND adaptive volume set ... not a real audiophile choice, although its good for streaming and some playlists ... un-check them to test or uncheck adaptive volume to preserve dynamics?

As far as I know Volume Leveling and Adaptive Volume (Peak Level Normalize, which is the default) do NOT affect dynamics in any way. It's a fine audiophile choice, as long as you are ok with MC doing volume changing to make all songs similar in level.

Brian.

Arindelle · « **Reply #12 on:** November 21, 2015, 08:28:53 am »

Quote from: blgentry on November 21, 2015, 07:30:43 am

As far as I know Volume Leveling and Adaptive Volume (Peak Level Normalize, which is the default) do NOT affect dynamics in any way. It's a fine audiophile choice, as long as you are ok with MC doing volume changing to make all songs similar in level.

Brian.

Hi Brian .. there are a lot of posts on this .. some with different opinions ... even though it "works intelligently with volume leveling" it is still significantly boosting low volume passages, based on peaks, it has to affect dynamics in some ways depending on the playlist -- try Nine Inch Nails and Vivaldi and check the shifts ... it is a good compromise, though no argument there (and Audiophile is not necessarily a complimentary word for me anyways

)

but this is just to test his sound card regardless, so set the output right, remove DSPs, and then add 'em back in to suit to taste was what I was getting at -- had no intention of dredging up this argument

blgentry · « **Reply #13 on:** November 21, 2015, 08:40:42 am »

Quote from: Arindelle on November 21, 2015, 08:28:53 am

Hi Brian .. there are a lot of posts on this .. some with different opinions ... even though it "works intelligently with volume leveling" it is still significantly boosting low volume passages, based on peaks,

Adaptive volume does NOT do this. Or they are lying. AV provides a constant boost, per song, in volume level. This can not affect dynamics. Period. Or they are lying.

Brian.

Arindelle · « **Reply #14 on:** November 21, 2015, 09:10:46 am »

Quote from: blgentry on November 21, 2015, 08:40:42 am

Adaptive volume does NOT do this. Or they are lying. AV provides a constant boost, per song, in volume level. This can not affect dynamics. Period. Or they are lying.

Brian.

jeez Brian ? nobody's lying! - there is just some miscommunication/misunderstanding here .. as this is off topic lets leave this go for this thread, k? as I said

Quote from: me

but this is just to test his sound card regardless, so set the output right, remove DSPs, and then add 'em back in to suit to taste was what I was getting at -- had no intention of dredging up this argument

blgentry · « **Reply #15 on:** November 21, 2015, 09:38:12 am »

Ok, I'll drop the subject. No offense intended.

Brian.

Arindelle · « **Reply #16 on:** November 21, 2015, 09:52:27 am »

Quote from: blgentry on November 21, 2015, 09:38:12 am

Ok, I'll drop the subject. No offense intended.

Brian.

none taken .... oh and bravo 1600th post Brian that's cool

Chasoscar · « **Reply #17 on:** November 21, 2015, 01:49:32 pm »

I think it would be safe to say I am not an audiofile, so don’t be surprised if I say or do something stupid concerning my settings. That being said, I cant imagine anyone enjoying listening to music more than I do. I have been using Media Center
for quite awhile(13yrs?) but I am embarrassed to admit how little I understand about all of the options it offers me. This is not because of laziness, but because of the numerous(6+) head injuries that I have suffered and the difficulty I have processing and retaining ‘new information’. That being said, I do my best to just to remember to feed my dogs and keep things ‘working’. Heck, I still don’t know how to use ‘Zones’ and I cant tell you how many times I have read the wiki but for one reason or another..... I have still yet to create my first one, but it is on my MC bucket list. It is very frustrating to know that I barely use the majority of features that MC offers, but I do the best I can.

Back on topic, I suspect that the ‘non-default’ DSP settings that I had changed probably happened one late night while I was drinking and dancing with the dogs. I know the ‘general consensus’ here is that the settings in MC should not affect system sounds, I tend to disagree. It now seems they must have caused some conflict because after taking Arindelle’s advice (thanks man!) and disabling all the DPS settings......
Everything seems to be working GREAT now in MC, YouTube and Netflix .... no 'clipping' anywhere
Yeah !!!!! .......... Thanks guys!

Just a couple more questions before I start dancing again
Why does it say Source: 44.1kHz/64bit/2ch Is that what it should say w/6spkrs and my Realtek card
What should my output encoding be set on... currently set on ‘None’
How can I find out if my sound card has its own Asio driver and if it can be configured to work with WDM

Thank you ALL for all your time and help with this! I couldnt have done it without your help
If I could offer any advice, it would be....... when drinking and dancing with the dogs..... just listen, don’t mess with anything!

RoderickGI · « **Reply #18 on:** November 21, 2015, 04:28:06 pm »

Sorry I couldn't get back to this earlier. But it looks like you are happy just disabling all the DSP settings, so let's leave it all as you like it now!

Quote from: Chasoscar on November 21, 2015, 01:49:32 pm

Why does it say Source: 44.1kHz/64bit/2ch Is that what it should say w/6spkrs and my Realtek card

If you are playing CDs or ripped CDs, they would be 44.1kHz, 16bit, 2 Channel. MC says the source is 64bit because internally it uses 64bit manipulation of the sound. So, the source information is correct, and yes that is what it would say for a 6 speaker setup. The output will depend on what you have setup in MC. For example, I up-mix everything to 5.1 Channels, just as you do, so I get the music from all speakers around me. Not an audiophile choice, but necessary in my household.

The 5.1 light on your Logitech Z906 speakers controller should be on when you play music, I think. Well, I'm assuming that light comes on when 6 channels are received, rather than 5.1 Dolby Digital or DTS.

Quote from: Chasoscar on November 21, 2015, 01:49:32 pm

What should my output encoding be set on... currently set on ‘None’

"None" is correct for you. Because you are directly connecting your analogue output (speaker cables) from your Realtek soundcard to the Logitech Z906, you don't need to encode the sound again before sending it to the speakers.

Quote from: Chasoscar on November 21, 2015, 01:49:32 pm

How can I find out if my sound card has its own Asio driver and if it can be configured to work with WDM

Your soundcard can be used with the WDM driver. The WDM Driver is an input to MC, while your soundcard is the output from MC.
I don't think that a Realtek card will have an ASIO driver, but you could look up on the Realtek site for your specific model and see if it does. I can't find any reference to ASIO driver on their site though.

Anyway, if the sound is now the way you like it, play the music and enjoy! By all means, keep fiddling with settings and reading the forum and Wiki, because there is always more to learn.

Have fun.

Chasoscar · « **Reply #19 on:** November 21, 2015, 05:45:55 pm »

Thanks Roderick,
I really appreciate your detailed answers. It helps a lot.
Yeah, Im happy. Sounds much better now than it has in awhile.
I would like to try the WDM driver if you think it would improve quality.
Is that done within MC? Can you tell me how to change that.

Thanks Mate

Chasoscar · « **Reply #20 on:** November 21, 2015, 06:52:50 pm »

I got the WDM driver installed fine and was blown away inside MC .....But
I now have lost my system sounds again.
I checked the speaker icon in the system tray and it looks like it is getting sound
just nothing out of the speakers. Ideas? Hoping it is something simple

I read over the WDM wiki and checked the output device and it is still set on the Realtek High Def Audio(wasapi) but I did not see the JRiver media center 20 entry there....... is that the problem? Im confused

JimH · « **Reply #21 on:** November 21, 2015, 07:14:16 pm »

Double click on that icon and check the "Mixer".

MC has several volume options. Try Internal.

Chasoscar · « **Reply #22 on:** November 21, 2015, 07:41:47 pm »

Quote from: JimH on November 21, 2015, 07:14:16 pm

Double click on that icon and check the "Mixer".

MC has several volume options. Try Internal.

Thanks Jim, I did that but did not see an 'Internal option' I even looked in the sound console. Im still looking tho
When you said 'Internal' did you mean within MC.
I did try YouTube(SNL) inside of MC and I could hear audience laughter and applause but I could not hear the person speaking
After some time sound started working(Youtube outside of MC) but when I closed the browser and reopened it was not working

Chasoscar · « **Reply #23 on:** November 21, 2015, 09:01:46 pm »

Its doing some weird things and Im getting flustered
I might go back to the pre-WDM settings for now but I will include some screenshots of the MC20 Windows Console properties and maybe there is something there. It shows 2ch/16bit in the Windows console but in MC the output is 6ch/64bit..... is that an issue? Also there is no test sound when I test inside the windows console.
The WDM driver is much better for MC sound and I would like to get it working for System sounds also if anyone has any ideas. Thanks

JimH · « **Reply #24 on:** November 21, 2015, 09:23:02 pm »

Click on the speaker icon in the upper left corner.

Chasoscar · « **Reply #25 on:** November 21, 2015, 09:39:24 pm »

Quote from: JimH on November 21, 2015, 09:23:02 pm

Click on the speaker icon in the upper left corner.

Jim,
I appreciate it.... can you be a little more specific? In the left corner of what screen?
Are you talking about the speaker icon in the systray and what am I looking for? Did you
read my response to your last post? I have already done that.

JimH · « **Reply #26 on:** November 22, 2015, 06:31:17 am »

Upper left corner of MC. Or in the options for audio.

Chasoscar · « **Reply #27 on:** November 22, 2015, 07:47:30 am »

Quote from: JimH on November 22, 2015, 06:31:17 am

Upper left corner of MC. Or in the options for audio.

Sorry, I thought you were talking about the Systray or Windows console
and I was frustrated because I did not understand.
The options were already set to Internal in MC and that is not the problem

Chasoscar · « **Reply #28 on:** November 22, 2015, 08:26:08 am »

Quote from: Chasoscar on November 21, 2015, 06:52:50 pm

I got the WDM driver installed fine and was blown away inside MC .....But
I now have lost my system sounds again.
I checked the speaker icon in the system tray and it looks like it is getting sound
just nothing out of the speakers. Ideas? Hoping it is something simple

I read over the WDM wiki and checked the output device and it is still set on the Realtek High Def Audio(wasapi) but I did not see the JRiver media center 20 entry there....... is that the problem? Im confused

Like I said earlier....
I do have have the option of sounds working much better now(both MC & system) than they were pre-1st post(thanks Arindelle & RoderickGi).
But after installing the WDM driver, although the sound was noticeably better in MC, it is not working with System sounds.
I can always use the pre-WDM settings, but I was hoping to get WDM to also work outside MC.
Any new ideas would be appreciated

Am I chasing a carrot on a stick or just beating a dead horse?

RoderickGI · « **Reply #29 on:** November 22, 2015, 06:39:33 pm »

Quote from: Chasoscar on November 21, 2015, 06:52:50 pm

I got the WDM driver installed fine and was blown away inside MC .....But

I don't understand the highlighted text above. Unless you mean the WDM Driver was removed from within MC. If so, that is correct. It shouldn't appear inside MC, and if it did, what you saw there was from an earlier version of MC, now removed when you installed the current WDM Driver. Good.

Quote from: Chasoscar on November 21, 2015, 06:52:50 pm

I now have lost my system sounds again.
I checked the speaker icon in the system tray and it looks like it is getting sound
just nothing out of the speakers. Ideas? Hoping it is something simple

Was the Speaker icon muted, by any chance? (Red circle with a slash through it.) I use internal volume, and at least on my HTPC the speakers are often muted, but sound still works fine out of MC. I don't care much about System Sounds on my HTPC, so I leave it muted if it is. I believe MC does the muting, but I'm not sure exactly of the circumstances. You can unmute the speakers if you wish.

Besides, if you want to use the WDM Driver, you need to select it as the default sound device in Windows, and then that device should not be muted.

Quote from: Chasoscar on November 21, 2015, 06:52:50 pm

I read over the WDM wiki and checked the output device and it is still set on the Realtek High Def Audio(wasapi) but I did not see the JRiver media center 20 entry there....... is that the problem? Im confused

No, that is not a problem. The JRiver Media Center 20 entry appears in the playback devices accessed via right clicking the speaker icon in the System Tray, or via the sound console. Even if it appeared in the MC audio device list, you should NEVER select the WDM Driver as output in MC, because if it is output and input (as intended) you will have created a nasty feedback loop! I don' think it is possible to do that now in MC, but I think it may have been in earlier versions.

Quote from: Chasoscar on November 22, 2015, 08:26:08 am

But after installing the WDM driver, although the sound was noticeably better in MC, it is not working with System sounds.
I can always use the pre-WDM settings, but I was hoping to get WDM to also work outside MC.

Now we get down to it.

I think you are just missing the step of making the WDM Driver, "JRiver Media Center 20", the default output device in Windows. You also need to have the JRiver Media Server or MC itself running for System Sound to be played via the WDM Driver and MC. The flow of sound is like this;
System Sounds ==> JRiver Media Center 20 (WDM Driver) ==> Media Center ==> Realtek High Def Audio(WASAPI) ==> Logitech Z906 speakers

The Playback devices, including the important Default Playback Device, should like image attached. Of course, I am using MC21, but that is the only difference.

Just be aware that using the WDM Driver can result in quite a bit of lag, depending on settings. So watching YouTube for example, sound may be out of sync with the video. I have never quite been able to get the balance of sound quality and synchronisation right on my systems, although I could get close on my Workstation.

To improve (reduce) the lag, you need to set Tools/Options/Audio/Audio Device/Device Settings/Buffering to the lowest figure you can. I have set mine to Minimum Hardware Size.
Also set Tools/Options/Audio/Advanced/Live playback latency as low as possible. On my Workstation I have that set to Minimum.

But even with both settings on the minimum possible values, I can still see a small lip sync problem. Also, not all systems can have the settings on minimum values without some sound problems, such as crackling or pops or glitches, as the buffer is so small.

Of course for just playing audio, synchronisation isn't an issue, so the settings can be set higher, with larger buffers and latency, that avoids the sound problems. But for playing YouTube videos, Netflix etc., synchronisation is an issue. Therefore, you may to use Zones where for just Audio material you have a larger buffer and higher latency, and for video you use the minimum buffer and latency, but suffer a little bit from sound problems.

But then you would have to learn about Zones. I'm still only using one default Zone myself, as I haven't needed to set up more. So I can't advise too much on how to best set them up. The WDM Wiki has some advice though, and there is lots more on the forum and in other Wiki articles.

Also note, when using the WDM Driver, there is a delay of between 2.5 and 3 seconds between when the driver finishes playing one sound, and is released and ready to play the next sound. If is isn't released and ready, and another sound is played on the PC, no sound will be heard. The sound is lost. This can be very noticeable to System Sounds. To see what I mean, just open the "Sounds" tab in the Playback Devices dialogue (or via the Sound Console), select a Windows sound such as the Default Beep, and click the Test button. If you click once it plays, if you click twice the second sound won't play. If you click test, wait 3 seconds, click again, you will hear both sounds.

So, the WDM Driver works with System Sounds, but sometimes those sounds will be lost, because the driver isn't ready yet. (Note: I use WASAPI Exclusive Mode in MC, "Allow Applications to take exclusive control of this device" in the Properties of the WDM Driver. These settings could affect this issue, but actually if I don't use Exclusive modes, the Windows test sounds don't play at all. The sound doesn't get into MC, as shown in the DSP Studio Analyzer display. That is another topic, but have a look at the second image for a display of the Windows Logoff sound when using Exclusive mode settings.)

Oh, BTW, you should use Internal Volume in MC as Jim suggests. Much better than the alternatives, and works better with other MC functionality.

Arindelle · « **Reply #30 on:** November 23, 2015, 05:02:19 am »

Roderick brings up a lot of good points here.

I think though that there are a LOT of people that have complained about the WDM driver bugging or bringing out clicks and pops because they are not using separate zones for playback of local media (music and video) and playback from internet sources (including netflix etc.). In other words they have changed their latency and buffering settings for all playback -- internet, netflix, and local media. Almost always, unless you are very lucky, they will not be the same. ANd what works for one person, even with the same hardware will not be the same necessarily for the next guy.

Also just setting to the lowest settings (latency and buffering) is not always the best on all systems -- if using only one zone this is often going to create an unwanted "lag" (gamer terms? as noted

) for local playback.

And there can be a confusion with what Windows refers to as system sounds (like notification sounds -- you've got mail et al, which generally when good sound quality is the goal you want to mute or stop totally) and sound that goes through the Windows mixer (like You Tube videos).

Generally (arguably?) you would want JRiver set to exclusive access. So when you choose the WDM driver as the default, JRiver (or at least the Media server from JRiver) has to be running. If not you will not have any sound .. this is normal, desirable behavior for an HTPC, but not might always be best for a work station PC that you also want to use to listen to music. I set JRiver to load on windows startup to not have any surprises.

The WDM driver is an advanced feature in my opinion. Local media playback should not sound better, but streaming through Spotify should. Latency and buffering settings are not critical when streaming audio but as Roderick pointed out they are when streaming a video. So I recommend setting up first a separate zone for the WDM, then setting up a zone switch rule (see the WIKI article on this -- its recent); then find a sync video .. there are a bunch in the main WDM thread -- if you need me to dig up a link I can later. Set your "lag" settings for the video -- warning this can be fastidious -- might take 2 minutes, might take 30 -->be patient. In your default playback zone keep the default settings to avoid clicks and pops for your local media.

Once this has been set-up ... You can then use a zone switch rule so when streaming what you are calling "system" sounds are using the adjusted latency and buffering settings, when you are playing back local media, it should flip to play back in the default zone's settings (or another zone of your choosing - I have three for audio and 2 for video

). Again, remember when using the WDM driver as a default in Windows, JRiver or JRiver media server must be running when set to "exclusive"

hope this helps .. you might have some WIKI reading to do though

Chasoscar · « **Reply #31 on:** November 23, 2015, 11:26:56 am »

Roderick and Arindelle,
After reading both of your post carefully several times I am reluctant to say I am having 2nd thoughts about using the WDM driver, at least for now. I say reluctant only because of the amount of time and detail you have both put in trying to help me get this sorted out. I have also been reading all I could in the Wiki and WDM threads and considering everything I would need to tweak and ‘remember’ to make it work properly, I question whether I am capable. Also considering all that is going on this time of year I wonder if the benefits outweigh the effort it would require .... maybe in a few weeks?

It seems, from what I understand anyway, where WDM really shines is playing ALL media within MC, including video and streaming. When I use WDM to listen to music in MC there is a noticeable improvement in sound quality. At least 95%(maybe more) of my MC use is listening to music (my main motivation for wanting to use the WDM driver)and although I really enjoy using it for that, I also realize that I am missing a lot because I do not use more of the features offered in MC that would benefit from WDM if I could get it configured correctly. I constantly run across new and neat features in MC but I am often unable to remember much less find them again unless I happen to re-discover them by chance. This is frustrating for me and it limits my ability to learn and utilize everything MC is capable of. I realize this is not a MC design flaw ..... just a reflection of my current abilities and I have learned that sometimes it is best to simply accept the fact that I am unable to do some of the things I use to be capable of.

The Good news... even without the WDM setup, my sounds (MC & System) are so much better than what I was getting before your help and I do really appreciate that. I have a lot going on for the next month, as I am sure you do, so I will not have a lot of time to experiment with it. But if and when I decide to try to configure WDM again, it is easy to switch between my working settings and WDM to test and IF I do, I will most likely have additional questions.
That being said, even if I cant get WDM working, I am happy with the sound I am getting now.

I will be adding you both to my friends list!
Happy Thanksgiving and Thanks Again for your time and help

RoderickGI · « **Reply #32 on:** November 23, 2015, 03:23:55 pm »

No problem Chasoscar. All the best for the holiday season.

Arindelle; yes, (ex)Gamer here, rather than Audiophile. But my definitions would be more along the lines of;
Latency: Planned, known, and somewhat adjustable delay in a digital stream.
Lag: $%&@!*&^ computer! Ahhhh, I'm dead. %^@$#& Internet Service Provider! Why can't I see what's going on! Someone is shooting me!

Arindelle · « **Reply #33 on:** November 24, 2015, 04:35:44 am »

Yes indeed you are welcome and a happy Turkey day to you too, Chasocar!

Steve

@Roderick -- euh me TOO, I have to admit

-- hehe, that's where "Arindelle" comes from btw -- she was my hot blond Paladin from my days in WoW ... I was undoubtedly the oldest (meaning over 50 years old

) MT healer on my server!! SO I remember too well .. lag and my tank dies

... quit when they nerfed my class to bits ... PWND by Blizzard

oh and I'm now a re-converted "ex-audiophile". Still have a nice music system, but now I listen to music rather than my equipment

Jeez, I have to stop using that term on the forum!

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Author Topic: I need 'Sound' advice (Read 12466 times)