Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[mattkhan]

One common theme in these discussions is the wiki. I think the same points have been made throughout the years I've used jriver but I don't think anything meaningful has changed, some concrete suggestions on the wiki and how it relates to the forum;

- move the wiki under the same URL as the forum so google searches hit both in one go
- give all interact users edit rights, perhaps after they reach some level (post count, time served or whatever)
- consider applying a moderation model if you don't want everyone to contribute directly
- if the wiki doesn't have a decent wysiwig editor, get one (as wiki syntax can be rather obtuse) or change the wiki to something that has one to make it easier for people to edit without the wiki syntax hurdle
- rewrite the landing page (which is currently a bit of a blank slate - https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Main_Page), consider adding some guided paths like "getting started" 
- come up with a better theme, it's about as close to plain text as html can be at the moment
- consider simply deleting any page marked outdated (IMV wikis always degenerate into a mess because no one ever wants to delete anything, IMV prefer ruthless deletes after tagging obsolete content)
- consider a separate published "documentation" bundle, i.e. a buildable documentation package that lives in a source control system (c.f. https://readthedocs.org/), this could be more strictly focused on actually using the app (main reason = make it easier to write some content offline)
- look for a forum plugin that performs searches against the new combined wiki/forum domain (to help the user find related content), this would be useful in any given thread as a sidebar as well on the new post screen

given that the recommended approach to using the forum is "use google to search", the first option is probably the one that would have the biggest impact on visibility of the wiki today. If you combined it with the 2nd option then perhaps you'd see some real traffic through there (it would be interesting to know how much traffic hits the wiki btw, is it heavily used today? I get the impression it is not)

[millst]

Another suggestion, update the last modified date for all the pages. It's not reassuring to go to a page that was last modified many years ago and has references to MC17. If the information truly is relevant and accurate with no updates required, just make some minor format tweak.

-tm

[JimH]

Another suggestion, update the last modified date for all the pages. It's not reassuring to go to a page that was last modified many years ago and has references to MC17. If the information truly is relevant and accurate with no updates required, just make some minor format tweak.

The only reason we every mention a specific version is to make sure that people know that they need to have at least that version or higher.  None of the instructions are specific to any particular version.  What worked with MC17 should work with MC30.

[JimH]

One common theme in these discussions is the wiki.

I agree.  It came up frequently.

- move the wiki under the same URL as the forum so google searches hit both in one go

Google already finds both.  Maybe I'm not understanding.

- give all interact users edit rights, perhaps after they reach some level (post count, time served or whatever)

We used to allow that and it ended up with a lot of spam.  It was a mess to clean up.  Now we allow anyone who asks.

- consider applying a moderation model if you don't want everyone to contribute directly

Possibly.

- if the wiki doesn't have a decent wysiwig editor, get one (as wiki syntax can be rather obtuse) or change the wiki to something that has one to make it easier for people to edit without the wiki syntax hurdle

I'm not sure how hard it is to learn, but we can also edit if people just want to type text.

- rewrite the landing page (which is currently a bit of a blank slate - https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Main_Page), consider adding some guided paths like "getting started" 
- come up with a better theme, it's about as close to plain text as html can be at the moment

I usually use this link for the wiki:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Category:Frequently_Asked_Questions
I agree it needs work.

- consider simply deleting any page marked outdated (IMV wikis always degenerate into a mess because no one ever wants to delete anything, IMV prefer ruthless deletes after tagging obsolete content)

Someone added those tags a year ago and I just removed them.  Some of the pages were incomplete.  None were obsolete.

- consider a separate published "documentation" bundle, i.e. a buildable documentation package that lives in a source control system (c.f. https://readthedocs.org/), this could be more strictly focused on actually using the app (main reason = make it easier to write some content offline)

hmmm

- look for a forum plugin that performs searches against the new combined wiki/forum domain (to help the user find related content), this would be useful in any given thread as a sidebar as well on the new post screen

Something like this would be nice.  We're back into "precious resources" territory though.

given that the recommended approach to using the forum is "use google to search", the first option is probably the one that would have the biggest impact on visibility of the wiki today. If you combined it with the 2nd option then perhaps you'd see some real traffic through there (it would be interesting to know how much traffic hits the wiki btw, is it heavily used today? I get the impression it is not)

The wiki is very heavily used.  It shows up on Google a lot.

[ugee]

Edit note: removed irrelevant remark(s).

[mattkhan]

Google already finds both.  Maybe I'm not understanding.

so it does, my mistake

We used to allow that and it ended up with a lot of spam.  It was a mess to clean up.  Now we allow anyone who asks.

was it completely open access or people had to pass some bar (e.g. post count) first? Do many people ask? Are people invited to ask anyway or do you need to know that you can ask? I don't think I've ever noticed this written anywhere apart from the times you've posted in reply to some thread (e.g. I looked at https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,43159.0.html and it doesn't mention it)

I was just thinking of ways to increase participation really.

Possibly.I'm not sure how hard it is to learn, but we can also edit if people just want to type text.

as per the previous point, was thinking of ways to reduce barriers to entry.  It's not hard to learn but I imagine most people are not familiar with it.

hmmm

I guess it's safe to assume you don't agree with that one

Something like this would be nice.  We're back into "precious resources" territory though.

re precious resources, the development model for the software is largely about incremental improvements with the occasional big ticket item. The development model for the forum/wiki/documentation appears to be non existent in comparison yet we have these regular threads on the subject. I have no idea whether that would translate into more/stickier customers though.

The wiki is very heavily used.  It shows up on Google a lot.

interesting. I have to say this surprises me though this isn't based on much apart from my impression of forum posts. I wonder how many people find what they're looking for on the wiki?

The only reason we every mention a specific version is to make sure that people know that they need to have at least that version or higher.  None of the instructions are specific to any particular version.  What worked with MC17 should work with MC30.

fwiw I've used MC since 19 and I don't think I've ever seen that said before.

[JimH]

was it completely open access or people had to pass some bar (e.g. post count) first? Do many people ask? Are people invited to ask anyway or do you need to know that you can ask?

Anyone could sign up.  That didn't work.  Too many errors and quite a lot of graffiti.  Not many ask.  We don't invite them, except to say, "You could do that if you wanted to." 

I was just thinking of ways to increase participation really.
as per the previous point, was thinking of ways to reduce barriers to entry.  It's not hard to learn but I imagine most people are not familiar with it.

We could set you up if you're interested.  I think it's tough to let a lot of people in without doing a lot of moderation.

... the development model for the software is largely about incremental improvements with the occasional big ticket item. The development model for the forum/wiki/documentation appears to be non existent in comparison yet we have these regular threads on the subject.

Please see below for the change log.

I have no idea whether that would translate into more/stickier customers though.

We have a pretty loyal customer base.  Most of our customers upgrade every 2nd or 3rd cycle, and many upgrade every cycle.

interesting. I have to say this surprises me though this isn't based on much apart from my impression of forum posts. I wonder how many people find what they're looking for on the wiki?

No idea, but I know that a lot of people ask questions that are answered there and wouldn't take a lot of time to find.

fwiw I've used MC since 19 and I don't think I've ever seen that said before.

It's at the bottom of one of the index pages.  We talk about it on the forum occasionally.

Here are the edits in the last 90 days:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&days=90&from=&limit=500

Thanks again for your thoughts.

[JimH]

One more point.  I think that more than a few of the people who express dis-satisfaction with the wiki or the forum are also the ones who are trying to do very advanced things.  In my opinion, even a very detailed manual couldn't help in most of those cases.

[mattkhan]

One more point.  I think that more than a few of the people who express dis-satisfaction with the wiki or the forum are also the ones who are trying to do very advanced things.  In my opinion, even a very detailed manual couldn't help in most of those cases.

look at this another way, one of MC's great strengths is the flexibility to let you do such things but it's also a commonly cited weakness in that people either don't know how to do these things or don't even know that such things are possible. Finding a way to showcase and/or document such features would surely be a good thing for advertising one of  jriver's strengths.

Quite a few forums have some sort of "member showcase" forum in which people show off (I mean that in a good way) what they've done, perhaps one of those linked to various wiki pages might help. This should not be a resource intensive activity either (though the forum software doesn't help that much in this case).