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[JimH]

That's no news to you if you live in these United States, but our friends from other places like Israel and France and Saudi Arabia and Brazil might wonder why things are slowing down here.

"The first official recognition of Memorial Day as such was issued by General John A. Logan, first commander of the Grand Army of the Republic. This was General Order No. 11 establishing "Decoration Day" as it was then known. The date of the order was May 5, 1868..."

That's from google.  1868 was a few years after the Civil War in the U.S.

When I was a lad, in the mid-50's, it was still known as "Decoration Day".  It had become a general day to honor the dead, something like Mexico's "Dia de los muertes" perhaps.  

In the end, it doesn't matter much if someone you miss has died in war or peace.  What matters is that they are gone, and that you will never share a moment of laughter or tears with them again.  

So we have Memorial Day.  It's Monday.

Listening to: '07 - A Felicidade' from by 'Orfeu' by 'Caetano Veloso' on Media Center 9.0

[NoCodeUK]

We have a similar day here in the UK.  It is called Rememberance Day and it take place on the 11th November each year.  At 11:11 on that day everyone holds a minutes silence for the dead of war.  It is at this time because the European treaty to end World War II was signed at 11:11 on the the 11th November 1945.

Adam

[GHammer]

Actually the 11th minute of the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month of 1918 World War I ended.

http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/1918/nytend.html

We have a similar day here in the UK.  It is called Rememberance Day and it take place on the 11th November each year.  At 11:11 on that day everyone holds a minutes silence for the dead of war.  It is at this time because the European treaty to end World War II was signed at 11:11 on the the 11th November 1945.

Adam

[KingSparta]

I Am Sure The Atomic Clock Was In There Back Pocket Too.

But it sounds like good propaganda for the military back in 1945

[sraymond]

Jim wrote:

When I was a lad, in the mid-50's, it was still known as "Decoration Day".  It had become a general day to honor the dead, something like Mexico's "Dia de los muertes" perhaps.  

In the end, it doesn't matter much if someone you miss has died in war or peace.  What matters is that they are gone, and that you will never share a moment of laughter or tears with them again.  

So we have Memorial Day.  It's Monday.

Not to be pedantic, but rather to educate, I'd like to point out that Memorial Day is not a day to remember everyone, whether they died in war or peace.  It is a federal holiday honoring those Americans who died while defending our Nation.

"Dia de los muertes" is a lot like the Catholic "All Souls Day" (November 2nd).  I'm not sure there's an "American" holiday for this...  does anyone know?

Vis-a-vis Memorial Day, there's also the "National Moment of Remembrance":

                           THE WHITE HOUSE


                    Office of the Press Secretary
________________________________________________________________________
For Immediate Release                                       May 2, 2000



Memorandum on the White House Program for the National Moment
of Remembrance


Memorandum for the Heads of Executive Departments and Agencies

Subject:  White House Program for the National Moment of Remembrance

   As Memorial Day approaches, it is time to pause and consider the
true meaning of this holiday. Memorial Day represents one day of
national awareness and reverence, honoring those Americans who died
while defending our Nation and its values. While we should honor these
heroes every day for the profound contribution they have made to
securing our Nation's freedom, we should honor them especially on
Memorial Day.
   In this time of unprecedented success and prosperity throughout our
land, I ask that all Americans come together to recognize how fortunate
we are to live in freedom and to observe a universal ``National Moment
of Remembrance'' on each Memorial Day. This memorial observance
represents a simple and unifying way to commemorate our history and
honor the struggle to protect our freedoms.
   Accordingly, I hereby direct all executive departments and agencies,
in consultation with the White House Program for the National Moment of
Remembrance (Program), to promote a ``National Moment of Remembrance''
to occur at 3 p.m. (local time) on each Memorial Day.
   Recognizing that Memorial Day is a Federal holiday, all executive
departments and agencies, in coordination with the Program and to the
extent possible and permitted by law, shall promote and provide
resources to support a National Moment of Remembrance, including:
 <bullet>   Encouraging individual department and agency personnel, and
           Americans everywhere, to pause for one minute at 3:00 p.m.
           (local time) on Memorial Day, to remember and reflect on the
           sacrifices made by so many to provide freedom for all.
 <bullet>   Recognizing, in conjunction with Memorial Day, department
           and agency personnel whose family members have made the
           ultimate sacrifice for this Nation.
 <bullet>   Providing such information and assistance as may be
           necessary for the Program to carry out its functions.
   I have asked the Director of the White House Millennium Council to
issue additional guidance, pursuant to this Memorandum, to the heads of
executive departments and agencies regarding specific activities and
events to commemorate the National Moment of Remembrance.

                                           William J. Clinton

Note:  This memorandum was released by the Office of the Press
Secretary on May 3.

Nonetheless, thanks Jim for pointing out the holiday.  It's my sad observation that all too many Americans have forgotten what many of our federal holidays mean - other than a day off from work, that is!

Scott-

[NoCodeUK]

Thanks GHammer.  Couldn't remember if it was WWI or WW2.

[Mysticeti]

As a wee lad I played trumpet.  This, coupled with the fact that my father was a veteran who was very active in the community, led to a few Memorial day "gigs" when I was at a very impressionable age.

The memory of traveling from cemetery to cemetery, each with many rows of stones accompanied by small US flags, the service ("....Wherever the body of a comrade lies, there the ground is hallowed..."), the three round salute, and of course, playing taps, is forever etched upon my mind.

[lOth]

]"Dia de los muertes" is a lot like the Catholic "All Souls Day" (November 2nd).  I'm not sure there's an "American" holiday for this...  does anyone know?[/quote

I guess the American equivalent is Halloween...

http://www.serve.com/shea/germusa/hallow.htm

[sraymond]

I guess the American equivalent is Halloween...

I don't think so.  The name "Halloween" means the evening before All Hallows or All Saints Day - clearly tied to November 1st vice November 2nd.  And, of course, it is deeply rooted in Christian/Pagan origin.

Scott-

[GHammer]

Which would have what to do with honoring those who have given their lives for their country?

I Am Sure The Atomic Clock Was In There Back Pocket Too.

But it sounds like good propaganda for the military back in 1945

[lOth]

The name "Halloween" means the evening before All Hallows or All Saints Day - clearly tied to November 1st vice November 2nd

Sounds kind of like the old debate about whether Christmas presents should be given on the 24th at night or on the 25th in the morning.  

The point is that, clearly, Halloween and All Saints Day are related to one another. I think that All Saints Days is indeed a Christianization of All Hallows. What I don't know is why and when some non-Catholic Christians stopped celebrating on November 2nd, while keeping a pagan holiday on the day before. Any idea?

[sraymond]

The point is that, clearly, Halloween and All Saints Day are related to one another. I think that All Saints Days is indeed a Christianization of All Hallows. What I don't know is why and when some non-Catholic Christians stopped celebrating on November 2nd, while keeping a pagan holiday on the day before. Any idea?

I'm hardly well-informed on matters of the church, but I'm fairly certain that "Hallows" refers to "holies" (i.e. the Saints) and that All Saints Day (November 1st) was moved from some other date so that the "eve" would coincide with a pagan holiday the church wished to supplant.

So Halloween, itself, isn't pagan per-se, although tradition has kept many of the pagan aspects.

And I'm not sure there's any Christian connection between All Saints (and Halloween) and All Souls.  In fact, I've been told by a Lutheran chaplain that even the various brands of christianity celebrate All Saints differently.  So it's hardly a wonder that all of Christianity doesn't agree with All Souls.  

It's a shame that there isn't an "American" All Souls.

Scott-

P.S.  I wonder how many of us went to some "memorial" for Memorial Day?

[lOth]

P.S.  I wonder how many of us went to some "memorial" for Memorial Day?

I didn't, it was pouring rain here... Besides, I'm not American.

[KingSparta]

Which would have what to do with honoring those who have given their lives for their country?

I think you missed the point.

Not every think in this world is true facts (ask mr blair from the new york times).

I am sure no one was there with a clock with the exact time or telling them not to sign until the 11th day on the 11th month on the 11th hour.

I am more shore it was made up my the military or reporters of that time.

the honoring is another subject, which should be observed.

I live in a military town and was in the military for something like 26 years And Was In The SF And 82nd for most of them.

I like to read\watch war events history was one of my majors.

History as the public knows it and military facts are not allways real facts, and some of the real facts will never be known unless someone writes a book, and then it must be true.

One of the things that won wars was and continues to be propaganda. and in WWI And WWII the U.S. Had a very powerfull propaganda mach.

[TimB]

Words that still linger in my memory from Remembrance Day in UK...

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years contemn*.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

and the full version...

LEST WE FORGET

by Laurence Binyon

With proud thanksgiving, a mother for her children,
England mourns for her dead across the sea.
Flesh of her flesh they were, spirit of her spirit,
Fallen in the cause of the free.

Solemn the drums thrill: Death august and royal
Sings sorrow up into immortal spheres.
There is a music in the midst of desolation
And a glory that shines upon our tears.

They went with songs to the battle, they were young,
Straight of limb, true of eye, steady and aglow.
They were staunch to the end against odds uncountered:
They fell with their faces to the foe.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years contemn*.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

They mingle not with their laughing comrades again;
They sit no more at familiar tables at home;
They have no lot in our labour of the day-time;
They sleep beyond England's foam.

But where our desires are and our hopes profound,
Felt as a well-spring that is hidden from sight,
To the innermost heart of their own land they are known
As the stars are known to the Night;

As the stars that shall be bright when we are dust,
Moving in marches upon the heavenly plain;
As the stars are starry in the time of our darkness,
To the end, to the end they remain.

They shall grow not old....as we that are left grow old
Age shall not weary them, nor the years contemn*
At the going down of the sun, and in the morning, we will remember them

* "contemn" original interpretation for "contempt"

[sraymond]

Quote:P.S.  I wonder how many of us went to some "memorial" for Memorial Day?  



I didn't, it was pouring rain here... Besides, I'm not American.

Do you live in the U.S.?

Scott-

[KingSparta]

P.S.  I wonder how many of us went to some "memorial" for Memorial Day?

Not me Raining And Working

As a matter of fact the town right next to us had two dams brake and everything is flooded here (it has been on Fox News and CNN) the town is hope mills and it is basicly part of Fayetteville, NC (you would not know where one ended and the other started if it was not for a sign).

But in the past I normaly played taps for the VA I don't have the lips for it now.

[zevele10]

There is two things here:
religious one with a ' day of the deads ',and  ' day of all saints'.
In november and one after one. first and second of november
Dead day is not a close day ,all saint is . So people mix- but christians are very good at messing around..- and spend they close  ' all saints 'day honoring the deads , who was the day before.....
There is two memorial days in France : november the 11th and May the ??.
Both dates are the end of both world wars.

I remember that in England  celebration of end of world wars is very strong.. but english people have guts when defending they country .. not like some others....

[zevele10]

guts has the same meaning than b-a-l-ls?
Because i mean ,they have b-... ,who ,if not wrong is much stronger than guts.
With only guts they would have not win the " battle of the sky'  . I do not know how they call it ,but they know  what i'am speaking about.
They won it because they had/have b....s

[KingSparta]

If anyone ever tells you you don't have any balls, just brake down and cry and tell everyone your mom would never allow you to have any balls. She was afraid you would run out in front of traffic


'Ball Of Fire' Charted At 19 In 1969

Listening to: 'Ball Of Fire' from 'The Best Of Tommy James And Shondells' by 'Tommy James And The Shondells' on Media Center 9.0

Artist: TOMMY JAMES AND THE SHONDELLS

Tommy James & the Shondells -- the very mention of their name, even to someone
who doesn't really know their music, evokes images of dances and the kind of
fun that rock & roll represented before it redefined itself on more serious
terms. And between 1966 and 1969, the group enjoyed 14 Top 40 hits, most of
which remain among the most eminently listenable (if not always respected)
examples of pop/rock. The group was almost as much of a Top 40 radio
institution of the time as Creedence Clearwater Revival, but because they
weren't completely self-contained (they wrote some, but not all, or their own
hits) and were more rooted in pop/rock than basic rock & roll, it took decades
for writers and pop historians to look with favor on Tommy James & the
Shondells. Tommy James was born Thomas Jackson on April 20, 1947, in Dayton,
OH. He was introduced to music at age three, when he was given a ukulele by
his grandfather. He was an attractive child and was working as a model at age
four, which gave him something of a taste for performing. By age nine he'd
moved to the next step in music, taking up the guitar, and by 1958, when he
was 11, James began playing the electric guitar. In 1960, with his family now
living in Niles, MI, 13-year-old James and a group of four friends from junior
high school -- Larry Coverdale on guitar, Larry Wright on bass, Craig
Villeneuve on piano, and Jim Payne on drums -- got together to play dances and
parties. This was the original lineup of the Shondells, and they became good
enough to earn decent money locally, and even got noticed by an outfit called
Northway Sound Records, who recorded the quintet in a Tommy James original
entitled "Judy" in 1962. That single didn't make much noise beyond their
immediate locale, but in late 1963, the group came to the notice of a local
disc jockey starting up a new label called Snap Records. They cut four sides,
two of which were issued and ...

[MachineHead]

P.S.  I wonder how many of us went to some "memorial" for Memorial Day?

I didn't go anywhere formal. At 9:00am Monday I paused when the 21 gun salute was given at the Flags of Honor memorial site across the lake from me.

Thank You....