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[Marty3d]

Just wondering, it's been awful quite around this for a while. Is it fixed? Is it buried? Did it leak so much memory it ceased to exist??

Cheers!
/Martin

[zevele10]

Good question my friend.
Here still the problem and even much worse than before: everything blow-up after only few songs......

[brookb]

Well, a new thread all about the memory leak was started, and I think most people who had comments on it (like me) put them in that thread.  However, that thread does not stay at the top of the thread list, so it gets lost as it moves further and further down.  I don't know if anyone is paying attention to it.

That being said, I haven't seen the memory leak in a while, but its probably because I try to avoid it by only analyzing about 50 songs at a time.  Once bitten, twice shy, you know.

I'm gonna run a big batch today with .161 and see if anything dies for me.  Sounds like Zevele has seen recent problems.

[grahamk]

I still have the problem and it's very annoying - particularly since after upgrading from MJ8 i have to re-analyze all the files to get the new parameters. I have about 25,000 songs in my catalog now, it is a daunting task to analyze them all 50 at a time.

At least with MC9 I don't have to wait to get the properties window up. There is a bright side to everything....

Graham

[brookb]

 Well, I can verify that yes indeed, the memory leak does still exist in version .161.  I ran a batch of about 280 files, and everything worked fine!  I thought perhaps it had been fixed!  

But then I ran another batch of around 160 files.  The first 127 worked fine.  The last 33 errored (I assume, as I wasn't watching at the time).  They were listed as 'queued' when I came back.  Memory for Media Center had jumped up to 200Mb.  Luckily, there weren't that many files left when the error hit, and the memory didn't jump to the point that my swap file got expanded.

It does seem that when an error occurs, the memory jumps up several MB per errored file.  I'm guessing it jumps the size of the file as the file is loaded into memory, the error occurs, and then the memory is never released.

Sure hope the JRiver guys can figure this one out.

[Diverdown1964]

Oh, the leak exists, in a big way. I've been plowing through a list of approx 33000 songs for the last week. Why so long? Because this happens:

Select all songs requiring analysis
Start analysis
Analysis runs from 2-6 hours (I have 1 GB RAM in my system, 2 GHz CPU)
Memory usage suddenly shoots up to about 3 GB
all remaining files process with a status of error.

Memory usage remains high until MC is restarted. Then it can start again.

[JimH]

We know it exists.  We believe you.  We just can't reproduce it.

So please don't just report that it exists.  Tell us what makes it happen.

Are you running it on downloaded files?  Or files you ripped?

What do you rip with?

What codec do you use?

Have you tried removing all un-necessary programs?

This could turn out to be related to a Windows bug or a driver bug or a virus checker.  Anything is possible.

But we can't fix it until we can reproduce it.

OS?

[JimH]

Are you running a pop-up killer?

[zevele10]

Do you want us to post here ? Or to start a new one?

[JimH]

Here is good.

[Bartabedian]

Are you running it on downloaded files?  Or files you ripped?  

Both...errors in AA happen on both.

What do you rip with?

Depends... EAC, MC, AudioGrabber...all have produced errors in AA.

What codec do you use?

LAME, always LAME. But downloaded, varies obviously, but errors have occurred on 3 different encoders I've seen (XING (old), LAME (different versions, and Fraun.)

Have you tried removing all un-necessary programs?

No other progs on system, just MC. Sys tray has 1394 control, Echo audio mixer, LAN icon and clock.

This could turn out to be related to a Windows bug or a driver bug or a virus checker.  Anything is possible.

True, anything is possible, but unlikely in this event. All users reporting this bug have had three different versions of Windows (98, 2K and XP, though interestingly, only 2k and XP of late) and a varied number of chipsets, processors and audio cards. These would be the top candidates for such a hardware concern. I run no virus monitor software, but all files are run through a viral check on backup, and no file is used until backup, so the system is clean.

Jim is right on, though, that we need to be diligent about finding the common values here. We all know it exists, but why. What type of memory do you have? What type of drive are the files stored on? And be forthcoming, if you're running cracks on your system, who knows, there may be something there. As Jim said, anything is possible.

Let's find this thing and be ...


WP

[Diverdown1964]

Hi Jim

We know it exists.  We believe you.  We just can't reproduce it.

So please don't just report that it exists.  Tell us what makes it happen.

Happy to...

Are you running it on downloaded files?  Or files you ripped?

What do you rip with?

What codec do you use?

It's a big mish mash of files I've collected over the past 5 years, although they're all MP3s. I don't believe any of them are OGG. The ones I rip myself have mostly used the LAME encoder.

Have you tried removing all un-necessary programs?

This could turn out to be related to a Windows bug or a driver bug or a virus checker.  Anything is possible.

OS?

I assume you mean shutting down? No - none of the ones that run in the background, but I have set it up for MC to be the only foreground app. It seems to go longer if there are few other apps running.

I'm not running a pop-up killer. I'm running an app called FileSync Force, that syncronizes changed files between drives (my version of a back up...) and I suspect that this happens more frequently when it is active.

I'm also running Symantec Anti Virus corporate.

My OS is Windows XP SP1, and up to date with all patches as of this weekend.

If there's anything else you need, you can also contact me at jpw@ever-america.com

Good luck!

[Diverdown1964]

Also.....

Not sure of the type of memory, but I'm using Western Digital 120 GB drives....

[JimH]

Please try shutting down anything you can and seeing if you can reproduce the problem.

[Matt]

In Options->General, try turning off:

[X] Update tags when file info changes

We still don't know if it's analysis or tagging -- this may isolate it.

Thanks.

[Diverdown1964]

DOne... shut down everything including Anti Virus ans SQL Server (di I mention that? - oops), and I'm trying again on 1500 files..... I'll post what happens

[Diverdown1964]

And I've implemented Matt's suggestion.

[Diverdown1964]

Another thing to throw in here.... When the app is restarted, and analysis starts again, it processes the file that it choked on OK. To me this would indicate that the problem isn't within the file itself. Of course, I've been wrong before...

[zevele10]

First ,on my side the problem was not always here.
I remember was a topic : who has the higger BPM and i did analyse few thousands tracks without problem.

Few weeks ago i did analyse few thousands OGG files and it was ok

I paste again my system:
.
Are you running anything tricky that handles memory or disk access?  

-=-=NO

Do you have any unusual plug-ins installed?  
 
-=-=-NO

Which virus checker?  
 
Which firewall?  

-=-=PCCillin 2002 ,firewall-[only in connections monitored-]

-I have the problem using MC for other tasks or not
-I have the problem with music on any of my five hard drives

-I run a Windows US english-hebrew enable , set to US english as default
-All Windows updates installed

- I have the same problem with MP3 , OGG ,MPC.
I cannot tell you about lenght of the songs.

-I have RealOne and MusicMatch installed but not WMP- i run the one on my Windows disc ,6 i think-

- I have Nero , EAC and DBpowerAmp  installed as well.






Media Center Registered 9.0.161 -- C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center\

Microsoft Windows 2000  Workstation 5.0 Service Pack 3 (Build 2195)
AMD Athlon 1678 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 261 MB, Free - 125 MB

Internet Explorer: 5.00.3502.1000 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.81 / Shlwapi.dll: 5.00.3502.5332
Shell32.dll: 5.00.3502.6144wnaspi32.dll: 4.60 (1021) , ASPI for Win32 (95/NT) DLL, Copyright © 1989-1999 Adaptec, Inc. / Aspi32.sys: 4.60 (1021)

Ripping /   Drive H:   Copy mode:ModeBurstBigBuffer   CD Type:Auto   Read speed:Max
 Drive I:   Copy mode:ModeBurstBigBuffer   CD Type:Auto   Read speed:Max
 Digital playback: Yes /  Use YADB: Yes /  Get cover art: No /  Calc replay gain: No /  Copy volume: 32767
 Eject after ripping: Yes /  Play sound after ripping: Yes  Soundfile:   C:\Program Files\Yahoo!\Messenger\Media\knock.wav

Burning /  Drive I: PLEXTOR  CD-R   PX-W4012A   Addr: 0:1:0  Speed:40  MaxSpeed:40  Use MJ Engine:Yes
 Test mode: No /  Eject after writing: Yes /  Direct decoding: Yes /  Write CD-Text: No
 Use playback settings: No /  Normalization: None

Motherboard : Soltek Mainboard Driver
ADM Athlon [ tm] XP 2000 +
AT/AT compatible .

Problem on 3 of my drives : Western Digital 200 giga- Maxtor 160 giga and IBM 120 giga .
The 2 other drives : one is empty ,the other one is C: where i NEVER put music.
All the drives are NTSF

Running in the back :
Yahoo Messenger
PC-Cillin antivirus/firewall
Keyboard layout/IME to swicth from US english to hebrew- this is the Windows application-
Nero set drive
Direct Update - a ftpp server-

Same problem with any or all of this programs closed - NOT uninstalled ,only closed.

I had the same programs when Analyse was working fine


-=-=-=Are you running it on downloaded files?  Or files you ripped? -=-=-=

Downloaded from Emusic
Downloaded from Alot..
Ripped

-=-=-What do you rip with? -=-=-
I tested rip with:
MusicMatch
RealOne
MC
EAC
DBpowerAmp
But my 'regular ' rip are EAC or DBpowerAmp

-=-=-=What codec do you use? ===
My rip:
OGG 6
Lame 192 ABR
APE fast.

Music downloaded:
A mix  but with a lot of Xing 128 old and 128 Lame==Emusic

From the other site : most of them Lame 192 CBR and ABR ,the rest some 128 - 160 and 320 Lame ,Xing and the MusicMatch one.

Sorry for the long post.
You know that many many times i said that only  Replay/Gain was worth the price of MJ.
I am not a genius at computer -FAR from it- but i am ready to make a clean install and install ONLY MC to see how it works ,if it can be of any help






 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BACK TO MONO  

[zevele10]

-=-=-=-And I've implemented Matt's suggestion-=-=

The same here.
Started with my today rip= 300+ APE.
Will update this post  with all tests

319 APe ==no problem.
But my computer much slower .
Memory use almost linear at 160-161
Closing only the Analyse windowdoes not give back memory ,only closing MC does.
-=-=-=-=-==-==

now let's see with a thousand OGG

[Marty3d]

Another thought: How do you ppl use screensavers/power saving?

I have WinXP screensaver kicking in after 20 minutes (I'm sure it isn't this) and Monitor Power off after 1 hour (it COULD be this).

Anyway, wasn't most of you using another locale than US English and AMD processor?
I'm sitting on a US English WinXP set to swedish locale.
Mainboard is Asus a7v133 with AMD 1000 mhz.

[zevele10]

Here ,no screen saver and monitor of after 45 or 60 minutes- i do not remember
But i do not think there is a link because since i know about this problem ,i do Audio Analyse when at my computer to see what happens

I have AMD
Concerning Windows,i'am not sure to have an hebrew enable one.
Look more like a Windows US english with keyboard layout set to US english and hebrew.
But i run all in english , just swicht to hebrew keyboard the few times i need it -not very often-

Beside it ,doing like Matt said ,i did 300 AP and i'am now doing 1337 OGG without trouble.
I am at around 600 songs done.

This is MUCH more than all my tests yesterday and this morning with everything blowing up at around 20-50 songs

[Diverdown1964]

Yup - I think Matt's on to something. I'm at 890/1400, so far so good.....

[Bartabedian]

Could it could be as Matt has said? There may be an answer there yet.

[zevele10]

Et voila!
1337 OGG done without problem.
But still, closing only the Audio Analyse windows does not give memory back.
Only closing MC does.

[Diverdown1964]

And mine finished fine.... 1432, no problem.....

[brookb]

Well, based on Matt's great suggestion and the experiments of the others, it does look to be that the problem is related to tag updating.  Perhaps if there's an error updating the tag, then things go sour.  

But an interesting point is that when Analyze is run later on the same files that blew up, it works fine.  That tends to indicate its not really the files that are at fault, but may be that some system resource is running out.  Perhaps the bug is that resources (other than memory - perhaps file handles or something like that) are not being let go, and when the system runs out of the resources, it starts erroring the analyze.  Then, due to a different bug, it doesn't handle the error well, and it leaks the memory that was used to store the MP3 in for analyzing.  

This is just one of many possible scenarios.  

Hope the new information from the other guys provides a good enough hint for Matt and company to figure it out!

[Marty3d]

Sorry guys....my MC exploded this morning!

After unchecking the 'Update tags when file info changes', I left MC playing songs and analyzing files over the night. 8 hours later, virtual memory used by MC was 1,7GB and ram 700kb (yes, kilobytes)! I had to force MC to shutdown to reclaim my mem.

Sorry!

UPDATE:
I can't tell how far MC had gone with the analyze, since MC's window didn't refresh, it was just plain white...

[Phydeaux]

Hi guys,

I have been in a situation to watch MC meltdown while analysing and have even grabbed some screen shots at the same time (wish I could find them now!). I don't think that it therefore has anything to do with screensavers and monitor power-off times.

There are a few points that may be of interest although they may not help as there is nothing empiracle about them, they are just my observations:

- it generally happens with lists of over 200 songs
- it generally happens after the 100th song
- the format of the song must be irrelevant because reanalysing the same "Error" songs again yeilds perfect results.

My largest wonderment is that it takes 100 songs of being "fine" before it crashes. Doing batches of 100 yields perfect results everytime. Yet if it can do 100 songs, why not 200, or even 1000 without having a hernia.

My system is not exactly "cut down" and I have a lot of things running in the background (IIS webserver, mySQL, Task Scheduler, Norton Install Monitors, ftp WARDaemon etc.). I am running an 800Mhz system AMD duron with appropriate motherboard (7ixe, I think). I have a Creative Labs Soundblaster Live! Value, all running on Windows XP Prof (SP1).

I use no special encoders / settings within MC, although I do have a number of (questionable) codecs installed on my machine for compressing to DivX. Not sure whether this is the cause because they were only installed recently.

An idea:

JohnT created a special OCX that he distributed to those who were having problems for debugging. Perhaps make a registry entry that can be tweaked that causes MC to spout a log file about what it is doing. Include memory measurements after each song (just for kicks!). You can then use this to help you in your debugging?

Perhaps there is something that I've said that may be helpful?

Good luck in catching this one!

P.

[JimH]

.... I have a lot of things running in the background (IIS webserver, mySQL, Task Scheduler, Norton Install Monitors, ftp WARDaemon etc.). I am running an 800Mhz system AMD duron with appropriate motherboard (7ixe, I think). I have a Creative Labs Soundblaster Live! Value, all running on Windows XP Prof (SP1).

It would help to know whether the problem persists with everything possible shut down.

That the problem appears every x tracks sounds periodic.  Anything else that is doing things periodically might be related.  

[JimH]

We spent some time talking about this today.  One of our theories for a possible cause is heat.  The process really pushes CPU, memory, and disk, so a lot of heat would be expected.

Here's a test that might tell us something.  If you think you have the problem and it's pretty reproduceable at 100 to 200 tracks, try taking the cover off your machine and putting a small fan beside the machine, blowing into the box.  Or anything else you can think of to cool the inside of the PC.  Then try running audio analysis.

If you don't have a fan, just take the cover off or get the dog to wag his tail or wave some cardboard back and forth for a couple of hours.

[zevele10]

My computer is open.
I have SIX ventilators and one heat extrator.
Until i did as Matt said , problem.
Since ,it is ok.

Beside it ,it can be the heat for a part. It can be even more the heat for people with AMD who tend to heat more than Pentium.
But most of us have a recent computer where there is a default level  'temperature alarm' Usely at 85 degres celsius.
The computer closes when heat at 85 , or rebot if just at a little more than 85.
Look like it is not the case for many of us.

Will test with 'udate tags ' and 'do not update' with Smargardian on .
And i let you know.

[fex]

I hate tests like this. But I will do it tonight. I just love MC.

[zevele10]

TEST ONE

2507 songs put to analyse.

With update tags when... set
41 C at the star.
After 175 songs ,Kappout
45 C when problem happens

[Jonas]

I don't think heat has anything to do with it.  While I was analyzing my files I had regular crashes on two different computers, both of which have been very stable for far longer periods of 100% CPU usage during benchmark testing for some software I'm working on.

[zevele10]

TEST TWO

5070 songs
Update tags when file info changes NOT SET
Using   other programs

So far 578 songs done and no problem.
Will update when i wake-up

UPDATE

Morning here-
So far  3000 songs done -
Computer at 44  C

[Marty3d]

Haven't tried analyzing with .164 yet, but isn't there ANY way to debug this mother? A special version with a log output with all information Matt can find useful?

On a side note: I turned on "update tags.."-thingy again and used tools -> update tags from library. AFTER it was done, the popup told me that it could take some while and asked if I was sure to do this. Bug or just wednesday slow perhaps

[Matt]

With tagging on, does 9.0.164 piece out for anyone?  We made some changes we thought could help.  

Of course, it's all conjecture since we don't really know what the problem is...

[Marty3d]

Well...this time my machine was able to analyze 1780 mp3 files. I don't know how and when since I wasn't home during the analyze, but it seems that mc didn't leak memory (task man showed about 20 mb mem and 30 mb vm) but it did crash instead. So, whatever you did, it might be on the right track!

[brookb]

9.0.165 still has the audio analyze memory leak.  However, the ameliorating change starting in .164 does help.  The analyzing did stop after a few errored files, and this kept Media Center from 'running away', using up all of the memory, and expanding the swap file.  Good job on that!  Now, I'm not afraid to start a bunch of files and leave it running.

Errors started at about 375 files.  I don't know exactly how many errored, but the size of Media Center went up to about 55MB before it stopped the madness.

Thanks for the change that 'stops the madness' before it goes too far    Good luck finding the real culprit.

[Marty3d]

Anything new? Did Matt & Co try to fix this in the last builds or should we just wait?

[GHammer]

I have seen this happen on far fewer than 200 in queue. But recent builds have made great progress in this area.

If you'd like to see real detail about memory usage, DLLs, handles, etc for any app or process, I use TaskInfo 2003. It provides probably more than you need to know about everything on your system and it does this without taking lots of resources for itself. Great tool for this sort of thing.

http://www.iarsn.com/taskinfo.html

Finally, I'd like to know if people having this problem are running WinXP or if it happens on other OSes. There is a small problem with SP1 that involves apps that open many files or handles. If this were only on XP I'd be happy to provide the MS link for the patch and info.

[grahamk]

I'm a bit behind in this but thought i'd toss this out:

My computer runs nothing but MC9 and Win2K SP3.

All of my files are MP3's  ripped with CDex. All of them are either at 320 or 256 kbs.

All of my files are mounted from a network drive.

My system grinds to a halt after 100 or so files...

Graham