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[This2ShallPass]

Devices in play here. Id Classic (120GB SSD)(Server, all music files stored on Synology NAS), Windows 10 desktop (client), iPhone running JRemote. This is a MUSIC ONLY CONFIGURATION.

Everything works great, except for 2 notable issues:
1. A discrepancy in song counts (Id reads 81,214 files, the Win client reads 86,087 files)
2. Playlists are out of synch: I have playlists in Id that reflect accurately in JRemote, but playlists I have in the Win client ONLY APPEAR IN THE WIN CLIENT.

HISTORY: I've created playlists before I ever had the Id, and have tried exporting/importing, but that clearly won't work for any NEW playlists I create in the Win client (obviously, my preferred place to create playlists!).

CURRENT PROCESS FOR ACQUIRING MUSIC:
A. Manually move files to the NAS on Win client
B. Rip CDs via dbPowerAmp on Win client disc reader

In each scenario yields proper view in "Recent" on Win client and JRemote. No problems!

IF I UNDERSTAND JRiver MC v. 25, with my single "Main" library, stored on the Id, I'm running the Win client attached, in CLIENT MODE: no syncing is required, auto-import is setup correctly, everything should work, and any options or changes library management I make should be on the Id, correct? I should ONLY be using the Win client for creating playlists, enjoying my music, editing tags, fixing artwork, etc., true? Why won't the Id read my Win client?

Am I missing something?

[This2ShallPass]

Can someone please help me with my a) mismatched file counts and/or b) playlists out of synch?

[RoderickGI]

1.
The number of audio files on your Client should exactly match the number of audio files on the Server. Mine does.

A Client gets a brand new, fresh copy of the Server Library from the Server every time the Client connects to the Server. That copy overwrites the previous copy of the Server Library, removing any local changes that have not or can not be synced.

Hence file counts should be identical. Do you leave both computers on all the time, and never reconnect the Windows PC to the Id? That is about the only way file counts would remain different. Reboot both and check again. Using different Views could also make it seem like file counts are different, but Views come from the Server, so they should be the same. If you are using a Panes View, are you making the same selections in the View on each computer?

If you want to investigate which files are extras on the Client, if the rebooting doesn't resolve it, create a new field on the Server (i.e. [Server]), set it to some value you can test (i.e. "Exists"), then in the Files view on the Client, search for all records where [Server] is not equal to "Exists", or is blank, or similar. Does that display files? Does it make sense that you see them on the Client and not on the Server?

If none of the above resolves the issue you will need to provide more information.

2.
If you want Playlists created on the MC Client to appear in the MC Server you must have Username/Password Authentication set up on the MC Server, the MC Client must log in using the Server Authentication credentials (once, and then it will remember the credentials), and you should have "Auto sync with server" turned on in the Client Options on the MC Client. You can also leave that off and manually sync only when you want to but that isn't recommended. You also need to allow the MC Client time to sync with the MC Server before shutting the MC Client down, after making changes. Or if you want to close the Client quickly, manually run "Sync Changes with Library Server" before you close the Client. Otherwise changes will be lost.

There are some exceptions to the above, when both the Server and Client see the path to media files identically. But that isn't the case for Playlists.

If you are using the MC Client/Server functionality properly I can't think of any way for the Client to have Playlists that aren't synced and visible in the Server, and hence in JRemote. Unless you never reboot the Server and Client, and hence never reconnect the Client to the Server, in which case, if sync is off, Playlists created in the Client will remain there but not appear in the Server.

You can create a Playlist on a Client, export it, and import it on a Server. But if the paths in the Playlist don't match exactly, nothing will appear in the Playlist on the Server. You can export, edit the Playlist to correct paths, and then import on the Server. But using the Sync functionality makes more sense.

Other:
If you are rippng on the Client, the resulting files must be moved to the NAS (or saved there during the rip - not recommended), which is what you are doing by the sound of it. The MC Server on the Id Classic must have Auto Import set up to import them. Auto Import should not be turned on in the Client, only on the Server.


You can't fix artwork on a Client using MC, as that involves file operations, which are not supported through a MC Client. All Cover Art, Posters, etc. must be managed on the MC Server. Unless of course you collect Cover Art using dbPowerAmp and embed the images, or save then if an appropriate place with the correct naming for the MC Server Auto Import to find them. You can't create or edit Views on a Client and have them appear on the Server. All such changes are lost on the next restart of the Client. You can edit tags on the Client, and through the sync process, those tags will be updated on the Server. If sync is off, the tags won't be updated.

The "Recent" smartlist is correct on the Windows MC Client and JRemote because it was created on the MC Server when the new files were imported. But that implies that the MC Client received a fresh update of the Library from the MC Server after the import process. i.e. By opening the Client after the import process.

The Id never reads the Windows Client. The Windows Client must sync changes back to the Id. It is a push process, I believe, for changes on the Client.

[This2ShallPass]

RoderickGI:

First, greetings and hopes for a Glorious 2020 to you! Thank you so much for engaging with me on this. Apologies (or perhaps this was good that I took so long) for the delayed reply. Since I posted this post, 2 things happened: I had shoulder surgery, and I also replaced my Win10 PC. That last activity necessitated a "refresh" of sorts, and hopefully a chance to get things working right. Now, to the points at hand:

1) Thanks for assuring me that I was not dreaming, and something is (was) indeed amiss. My counts were not equal, and of course, I now have a virginal copy of MC 26.0.14 (64-bit) installed on the new Win10 PC (Client). A couple points: I do leave the PC on all the time, but not necessarily MC. Nonetheless, when I open MC on the , it stays open and has every chance to sync. I don't use different views, but I am in "audio-only" mode. I reboot the PC and the Id Classic/Synology NAS Server every other week (at least), so things are OK there. I don't have the comfort/facility that you describe for creating new fields, so I'm going to leave that alone for the moment.

2) I would definitely want my Playlists to be synchronized between Client and Server. Actually CREATING Playlists is obviously much easier on the Client than through Remote Access to the Id/Server, so I assumed that I could do that fluidly: Use the new blazing fast Win10 PC for creating/editing Playlists, and have the Id Server pick them up for availability to any device.

I have set the Id Server to require Authentication (user/password), but the controls indicate "Read-only Authentication: Username and Password" and the drop-down lists "Username and password." Is that correct? Or should it read "Disabled" so that it can Read AND WRITE?

Now, here's a big question: My understanding is that the Win10 Client should READ the Id. But you're using the word "Sync." When I choose "Sync", MC COPIES of all the files from the NAS server to the default path specified in MC (C:\Users\[my name]\Apps\JRiver\... etc. etc. etc.). I don't WANT a copy of every file stored locally, or anywhere, really... don't I simply want the ability to READ audio files from the Id library??? Yes, I want also to WRITE files to the Id (the Synology NAS, specifically), including CD rips and Playlists. But I don't want a copy of 80,000+ files stored anywhere else, right???

I'm using the File, Library, Sync Library command from the Client, I enter my MC Key to do so, but as soon as I click OK, it's putting files on the Client. When I choose Auto-sync, I can specify Merging Files & Playlists (assume YES, and I check the boxes. Can I simply UN-CHECK everything in the File Locations section? Doesn't make sense... I think this is where I'm getting hung up.

[RoderickGI]

Happy New Year. May it be great for you as well. 
Shoulder surgery! Something I would dread as a Rock Climber, particularly as I have a bit of a weakness in one shoulder, so I feel the risk of injury! 

The naming of some functions in MC is unfortunate, as there are several very similarly named functions that do completely different things. Probably because of the style of progressive development JRiver uses, and the desire not to rename old functions.

I have set the Id Server to require Authentication (user/password), but the controls indicate "Read-only Authentication: Username and Password" and the drop-down lists "Username and password." Is that correct? Or should it read "Disabled" so that it can Read AND WRITE?

"Read-only Authentication" should be set to "Disabled".

The first "Authentication" setting provides Read/Write access to the MC Server Library. It must be ticked on, and have a Username and Password set.
The second "Read-only Authentication" setting provides Read-Only access to the MC Server Library. If it is set to "Everyone", then it seems from previous discussions that MC Clients are forced into using a Read-Only connection, because the user on the MC Client isn't asked for the Read/Write Username and Password. So everyone just gets Read-Only access. If it is set to "Username and Password", and the first "Authentication" setting is ticked on, I suspect that the MC Client still connects in Read-Only mode. Certainly if the same Username and Password are used in both, MC would probably give priority to a Read-Only connection. If a different Username and Password were used for each setting I guess that MC would pick the type of connection based on which Username and Password were provided by the user. But it gets a little messy after the first ever connection, because the MC Client remembers the Username and Password it used last time, and hence gets the connection type it used last time. So disable that second setting.

Now, here's a big question: My understanding is that the Win10 Client should READ the Id. But you're using the word "Sync."

A MC Client receives a full copy of the MC Server Library when it connects. In that respect, I guess it "reads" the Server Library, but only on connection each time the Client connects. After that, if changes are made on the MC Client, including just playing files which increases the play count, for example, those changes are synchronised back to the MC Server Library. A MC Client doesn't actively read from and write to the MC Server once it is connected. It is sort of an arms-length relationship.

MC will automatically sync changes on the Client back to the Server if the settings at "Options > Media Network > Client Options (when connected to a Library Server) > Auto sync with server" is ticked on the MC Client. This is not a Server setting, but a Client setting. If you have this setting turned on, you don't need to use the "Sync Changes with Library Server" function, as long as you allow MC time to complete the synchonisation of new data back to the Server, before closing the Client, as explained in my previous post.

I'm using the File, Library, Sync Library command from the Client

Don't use that. Ever. It is a completely different function. It is designed to sync both the MC Server Library and the media files to a local PC, which is what you are seeing it doing. I have also found it a little inconsistent in some testing I did. But regardless, it isn't what you want. That "Sync Library" command shouldn't even be active if you are connected to a MC Server Library. It should be greyed out. So if you are able to run that, you aren't connected to the MC Server Library on the Id.

The "Sync Changes with Library Server" function that I referred to is one of the buttons visible when you are connected to a Library Server and select "Playing Now > Playing from {your library server name} > {your library server name}". See the first image.

The function is also available under "File > Library > Sync Changes with Library Server". See the second image. Also note in that image that the "Sync Library" menu function is greyed out, as I am connected to a Server.

[This2ShallPass]

This is fantastic information for me Roderick, thank you. After using MC for over 10 years, I'm learning so much here! I understand pretty much everything in your last reply. Excellent.

I have fixed the Tools --> Options --> Media Network --> Read-Only Authentication (Username and password) once, and now I've updated it to Disabled. Now, NONE of the first 3 boxes are ticked: 1) use media network to share, and neither of the two buffers options. The 1st and 3rd of the SECOND (Client Options) set of boxes ARE ticked (Auto-sync and show playback zones). The only unclear part of your last reply to me was about the "sticky" feature of providing the Username and password, since it's been set up once as Read-Only, it might STAY Read-only? I guess I can test that by creating a new Playlist, but first:

Here I am, with my new PC, and I need to set up the MC Client the RIGHT way now, how should I go about connecting?

Since I tried once to connect using the the Library menu (and I won't do that again ever) and watched the process begin, copying files locally (and I stopped it), should I now go BACK into the library menu and CLEAR LIBRARY? My Server Code is still stored there, along with my options (Actions, File Locations, etc.).

Should reset the Client to fresh install, and start over?

[RoderickGI]

You had me a bit confused with this comment:

Now, NONE of the first 3 boxes are ticked:

Then I realised that if you turn Media Network off, the "Authentication" setting disappears, leaving just the "Read-only Authentication". Hence, three boxes not four. My Client also acts as a MC Server most of the time, using its local Library, so I always see four boxes. But your settings on the Client are now correct, and should look like the attached image. On the Server you would see four boxes in that part of Options, as Media Network should be turned on and the Authentication Username and Password set.

The only unclear part of your last reply to me was about the "sticky" feature of providing the Username and password, since it's been set up once as Read-Only, it might STAY Read-only?

If you turn on Authentication on the Server, or change the Authentication Username or Password on the Server, then next time a Client connects to the Server the user will be asked for a Username and Password again. There is also a checkbox asking if you want the Username and Password saved on the Client. If not saved you have to enter the Username and Password every time you connect from that Client. So if you were using Read-Only Authentication and turned on Read-Write Authentication, the Client will ask for the Username and Password, and if entered correctly, give you Authentication with Syncing.

I usually test sync just by entering a Comment against one audio track on the Client, then checking the same track on the Server. A Playlist creation test would work fine, but takes more work!

Since I tried once to connect using the the Library menu (and I won't do that again ever) and watched the process begin, copying files locally (and I stopped it), should I now go BACK into the library menu and CLEAR LIBRARY?

When you tried running the "File >, Library > Sync Library" function you must have had the local Library on the Client loaded, and not the Server Library. So if you only ever use this new PC as a Client on the Server, then what you do to that local Library doesn't really matter. It isn't going to be used. Perhaps to avoid future confusion, and reduce the disk space it is taking up, yes, Clear that local Library. You can't Clear a Server Library from a Client, so you won't clear the wrong Library.

But before you do the Clear, maybe use the local Library to check where MC copied files to locally, and delete those local copies.

Just to clarify, the copy of the local Server Library that is used by a Client is stored in a different place to the Main (Default) Local Library.

The Main (Default) Local Library is located at: "C:\Users\[UserID]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 25\Library".
The connected Server Library is located at:     "C:\Users\[UserID]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 25\Connected Library".

[This2ShallPass]

RoderickGI. I have so much to be thankful for. With your guidance, I have done it! I have created the relationship between my Win10 Client and my Id server that I was striving for!

I couldn't have done it without you. I agree, there is so much to be confused by in the language of the File --> Library commands.

But I have tested the arrangement now, I have created new playlists, I have edited them, and in every scenario, the server picks up the additions and edits. Thank you!

I have one final question about this arrangement, and it has to do with backup files.

If, in fact, the backup files are created and stored on my Id Classic server (which runs Linux), and NOT on the Win10 client, how does one access the .m3u files stored on the Id? I have - over the years - had the necessity to re-create playlists, edit playlists (as my library has moved locations), but they've all been stored on my Windows machine, readable, editable there. If I use the Server to store these files on the Id, how can a layperson like me (with virtually no Linux skills) access them, should I need to work with a backup? How could someone even restore them from a backup location?

[RoderickGI]

Great that you have your setup working the way you want it.

I can't give you specifics on the Id Classic, as it has been some time since I played with UNIX/Linux. But that shouldn't matter for these new questions.

First, MC store Playlists inside the Library. There are no .m3u files involved in the Library Backup. You don't need to access such files to backup Playlists. MC on the Id will run automatic Library Backups just as other versions of MC do, and you can see them using the MC Library Backup and Library Restore functions. You will, of course, need to access MC on the Id to manage Library Backups, if you ever need to.

So, do all your Playlist management in MC, and ensure that MC Library Backups are run on the Id. You could direct Library Backups to a location that is not on the Id, such as on a NAS or an attached drive. But just be aware that those backups will only work fully in a Linux environment. They can be restored to, say, a Windows PC, but there would be issues that needed to be addressed. That is a whole other topic.

If you do manage Playlists in MC, and then move media files around using MC functions as well, or indeed move the whole library (media files) location, then MC will update the Playlists to point to the new location. No .m3u editing required.

In your situation, I would be looking at a regular backup of the Id itself to another location, and probably using a scheduled synchronisation App daily to copy the MC Backups to a NAS or attached drive, so that you have safe backups if the Id dies.


You can select Playlists in your Windows MC Client, export them to a local drive location, and use them as backups. They can be imported back into MC via the Client fine. But they will refer to URL locations of files, so they won't be editable the way "normal" .m3u files are. If you want editable .m3u files showing actual file paths you will need to export them on the Id, and import them there again later if required. You could map a drive from a Windows PC to the locations they are stored on the Id though, to edit them if required. But really, you just don't need to work with .m3u Playlist files if you use MC Playlist functions.