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[GD60]

Hi!

My question: Is there any possibility to limit the volume in JRiver while using it in DLNA mode?

Why I'm asking this: Some days ago I bought a DAC and network player (Teac NT-505). If I set the volume to 40%, the windows start shaking and my ears (and probably also the speakers) are close to collapse. I set up a DLNA media server in JRiver to be able to run the Teac with using my JRiver library. Unfortunately the volume of the Teac can be controlled by the normal volume control in JRiver and I'm VERY nervous that one day I'll accidentally click on something higher than 40%. Unfortunately the Teac itself has no volume limiter and the volume limiter in JRiver is deactivated in DLNA mode.

I'd be happy if someone had an idea

[BigSpider]

I think (but I may be wrong - often am) using dlna to pull a file from a media server will just dump the file to the network streamer and it is the streamers job to manage the volume hence the volume knob on the teac.

[BigSpider]

For my use I have the streamer connected by asychronous USB to my pc so that I can play my MC files wih full control to my streamer using internal volume and the various other setting to avoid a sudden loud blast - the result of having an unsupervised 3 yr old playig in the room at one time - fortunately after the sonic boom I was pleased to see that my amp had taken all of the necessary precautions to protect my speakers and the integrity of my house.

[RoderickGI]

My question: Is there any possibility to limit the volume in JRiver while using it in DLNA mode?

MC can control the volume sent to a DLNA Renderer even when the file is being sent in Original format.

Unfortunately, the two settings that would help you here:
Options > Audio > Volume > Maximum volume.
Options > Audio > Volume > Volume Protection.

Don't apply when playing to a DLNA Renderer (Streamer). It would be nice if they did, but they only apply to local audio devices.

I'd be happy if someone had an idea

You can set DLNA to "Specified Output Format", so that MC is transcoding the file, and hence you can apply DSP under DLNA. Then you could use the Equaliser or Parametric Equaliser to tun down the Volume.
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DSP_Over_DLNA
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,92801.0.html

If you set this up so that even with the Teac NT-505 at full volume it isn't too loud, then MC will protect your system and your ears.

TEST THIS SETUP VERY CAREFULLY, STARTING WITH THE TEAC VOLUME SET LOW.



However, if you accidentally played something to the TEAC from another source outside MC with the TEAC set at 100% you are probably going to do damage.

So setting the volume on the Teac NT-505 to 100% and using the MC DSP volume controls may be a greater risk than setting it to 40% and managing that big volume knob on the TEAC. You need to decide that, based on your installation.

Maybe you have the wrong speakers or setup for the Teac NT-505?
Maybe you should ask on the TEAC forum?

Tape the volume knob on the Teac NT-505 at 40%?

[BigSpider]

Like I  said I'm often wrong but the deviousness of the answer may explain why.

[RoderickGI]

Well, you sort of weren't really wrong.

MC does just push a file to a DLNA Renderer without change... with the exception of volume. Apparently volume can be changed without transcoding, or without change to the actual musical content. I believe that the same applies when Bitstreaming.

I don't think MC used to be able to adjust volume for DLNA streams. That could have been changed in 23.0.90 when the MC DLNA Controller was rewritten... No, it looks like it was long before that.

The potential solution is a bit devious, or at least obscure, isn't it!

Also, we are all often wrong. Myself especially.

[thecrow]

I am no expert, but I use DLNA streaming a lot from MC.

While streaming when you use MC's volume control it does not alter the stream being sent but actually sends a command to the device for it to change the volume of playback. So if you have a motorised volume pot you will actually see the pot move.

I think the OP's idea of limiting the volume level MC can send to a renderer makes a lot of sense and would be a feature I would use if it were implemented.

[AndrewFG]

MC does just push a file to a DLNA Renderer without change... with the exception of volume. Apparently volume can be changed without transcoding, or without change to the actual musical content.

Err. Not really. Actually there are two options:

A. Push the track WITHOUT transcoding. In which case the Control Point (MC) can command the renderer to do things such as Play,Pause,FWD,RWD,Stop, and yes SetVolume and Mute. In all these cases, the CP (MC) is issuing commands to the renderer. But the renderer is executing those commands (or not).

or,

B. Push the track WITH transcoding. In which case (in addition to the above commands) you can also have MC apply DSP to the transcoded audio stream. And such DSP could include volume levelling or volume limiting settings.

[BigSpider]

What about a renderer pulling a file?

[RoderickGI]

I stand corrected! Thanks Andrew. See BigSpider, we can all be wrong!   

I just played to BubbleUPnP on my phone from MC and watched the volume on the phone move up and down as I made volume changes in MC.

Maybe it was only Bitstreaming that Hendrik was referring to when he said something along the lines of volume could be changed by changing non-significant bits in the stream. Or maybe I'm misremembering that as well. I can't find the reference quickly.

[BigSpider]

Well, before I posted I had tried pushing and pulling to 2 different dlna renders. In no cases did MC volume changes make any difference.

[AndrewFG]

What about a renderer pulling a file?

In UPNP there are three functional entities: digital media server DMS, digital media renderer DMR, and Control Point CP. The DMS serves the files. The DMR plays them. And the CP tells the DMR what to do. The CP, DMR, and DMS functions may be in the same physical device, or separated into two or three separate physical devices in any combination.

In a push scenario with MC, then MC is usually acting as DMS and CP. But in a pull scenario MC is probably only acting as DMS.

[GD60]

Hi everybody

Thanks everyone so much for your detailed replies. I was reading everything carefully and it helps me a lot.

For me transcoding the files within MC is no option (I guess this should better be done by the Teac for higher sound quality, no?), so I guess I have to live with the risk of the high volume. The TEAC unfortunately doesn't have a motorised volume pot, so anyway no possibility to use some tape (I'd like this kind of solution - just fix something with a strong tape, like in earlier days  )

I'll try to connect the PC to the TEAC by USB next. Just unfortunately streaming master quality in Tidal is limited with the USB setup - but still better then to cause damage one day.

And sorry everybody for my very late reply. Been out some days for hiking and was very happy to read all your good advices now!!