Topic: Display Order (Read 7335 times)

gkerber · « **on:** April 19, 2003, 09:29:21 am »

In v8, I would set the sort order for the display of music selections in Options->Tree&ViewSettings. I'd set a default order and each selection would always honor this settings. Sure I could change a view on fly for the current need, but the default always came back. I liked it.

In v9, I set the display order while viewing selections, and then I can set it for all views. Okay, there is no way to insure it stays like that. If I change a sort order while viewing data, it stays that way..... So it's very difficult to insure I get the same default order on every view.

This is a very big annoyance to me. I want default action, with the ability to change it on the fly, but ALWAYS be the default sort order when I return to that view.

Or, hopefully I am missing something.

KingSparta · « **Reply #1 on:** April 19, 2003, 09:32:43 am »

Quote

hopefully I am missing something.

get it how you want it, then right click on the Col header and select something like "change all to current view"

gkerber · « **Reply #2 on:** April 19, 2003, 09:44:28 am »

Right that works, but as soon as I go to some view and change it in THAT view, it stays THAT way in THAT view forever, until I reset THAT view back to the right way.

There seems no way to retain a DEFAULT.

Hopefully I'm still missing something.

fex · « **Reply #3 on:** April 19, 2003, 09:56:29 am »

Right click on the col header and choose "Revert To The Default Columns".

rocketsauce · « **Reply #4 on:** April 19, 2003, 10:57:26 am »

Quote

There seems no way to retain a DEFAULT.

Yes, the old way sorting worked in MJ8 and early versions of MJ9 is gone. The new way is called "sticky views" (hold down the shift key and click the column headers in the order you want them sorted). Sticky views allows you to use different sorting orders for each view scheme and it works great if you never change it. However, changing the sorting by clicking on a column header causes that new order to stick and the only way to return to the "default" is to change it back by clicking the column headers again.

I definitely prefer the old method of sorting over the sticky views method, but it's not a "showstopper" for me.

Rob

phelt · « **Reply #5 on:** April 19, 2003, 03:39:38 pm »

I use the column headers to re-sort frequently, so I liked the fact that it would 'snap' back to the default sort. As rocketsauce said, the new behavior is not a showstopper by any means, just non-optimal for me.

Now if there were a way to set individual sort defaults for branches, so you would get different sorts at levels that you defined... you would have customization for different schemes/media/whatever but still be able to use the column headers for quick, temporary re-sorts. And stuff.

xen-uno · « **Reply #6 on:** April 19, 2003, 04:12:21 pm »

JR,

I think there's enough votes in favor here. Would you consider re-implementing an options based sort order ( as in MJ8 )?

10^-27

MachineHead · « **Reply #7 on:** April 20, 2003, 06:25:48 am »

Quote

Or, hopefully I am missing something.

No you're not. A default for the Media Library in general would be nice. With maybe sticky views implemented in view schemes. I know you can set sort orders with an edit to a view scheme, but I think it would be much nicer to have an MJ 8 type of default.

This really becomes a PITA when you have different formats of the same album. MC tends to do its heirarchal sorting then and you have to click and change just to order them the way you want. In effect, changing your view scheme. Arrgh!

Example:

Add a set of wav files of the same artist-album to a folder with mp3's and see what you get. One mp3, one wav, one mp3, one wav, etc., etc.

To sort by format type now throws a curve into a sticky view scheme if it was not ordered that way to begin with. Annoying, but not a show-stopper.

gkerber · « **Reply #8 on:** April 20, 2003, 11:53:42 am »

It's good I'm not alone with this request to go back to v8 default sorting. I really wished I was wrong though, and there was something I could have done to always have the sort be predetermined to start....

Showstopper? Not really a consideration, v8 will become unsupported and v9 will be the only choice someday soon. But this is a HUGE annoyance to me. No longer can I click an artist and KNOW in advance the playback order, extra thinking, extra steps....

Converting APE files directly during a cd burn is very good in v9, instead of having the conversion done as a automated but separate step as in v8.

But that sort order thing......

RemyJ · « **Reply #9 on:** April 20, 2003, 12:44:09 pm »

You can specify permanent sorting in the view or smartlist criteria, then use the column headers for temporary sorting.

Regardless of what you do with the column headers, whenever you come back to the view or list, the sort order will revert to whatever was specified in the criteria.

gkerber · « **Reply #10 on:** April 20, 2003, 01:02:22 pm »

I have no idea how to do that.

I use an Artist/Album view scheme.

How do I set the sort order as permenent?

Whenever I change something in the column headers, it stays that way forever, and I have to change it back.

dragyn · « **Reply #11 on:** April 20, 2003, 01:07:30 pm »

right-click the view scheme (artist/album) and goto 'edit view scheme'

In the search criteria, use ~sort=[Artist],[Album],[Track #]

Use whatever modifiers you want. It will ALWAYS stay at what you pick regardless of anything else.

MachineHead · « **Reply #12 on:** April 20, 2003, 02:56:14 pm »

But it will not do it for media library. This is where MJ takes a step ahead of MC.

xen-uno · « **Reply #13 on:** April 20, 2003, 03:11:57 pm »

> It will ALWAYS stay at what you pick regardless of anything else

To reinforce Mach's point...

Only until you start using MC like you would MJ. Try it once...do the following while in Media Library...

Go to ML. Type in 3 or 4 char text string (like "led" to bring up "led zeppelin"). If you can do that (easily) without destroying your ~sort criteria, then I'll send you a six of Anchor Porter (thank you Scronch).

Related to this is to click on a column header to temporarily modify the sort order. Go away from it (click on Playing Now). Now go back to ML. See any changes? I'll bet you do...sort order has permanently changed.

Any more non-solutions?

10^-27

gkerber · « **Reply #14 on:** April 20, 2003, 03:45:57 pm »

~sort=[Artist],[Album],[Track #]

That seems to work in a view scheme, thanks, this is better, but still not near as good as v8. But better.

How did you know you can do that? Is it documented anywhere?

I'm still really considering going back to v8 until v9 is "ready".

CD Burning is quite flakey.

gkerber · « **Reply #15 on:** April 20, 2003, 04:02:09 pm »

Okay, I give up on v9, too buggy for me, and I sure hope it's not released this way, a bad write up could be a killer.

I added my sort order like this:

Sort:[Artist],[ord],[album],[track #],[name]

Ord is a custom field name

It seems to work perfectly! And then all I have to do is click a different view scheme and then go back to Artist/Album and EVERYTHING IS GONE. No music, not artists, nothing, even the little +/- to expand the list is GONE.

So I edit the view scheme again and remove the sort order I added and all is back to the way it works, in v9, badly.

This is too hard to use and play my music back in the desired order.

They've got to fix this, don't they?

dragyn · « **Reply #16 on:** April 20, 2003, 04:41:55 pm »

I can agree that 'Media Library' is not working correctly. I'm just talking about the view schemes.

When doing a search from a view scheme, the order is retained..just by typing a search (and removing the ~sort while doing it). When jumping around the tree and back to media library (with the same search), the order is lost.

I think (don't quote me on this), when the sort is "lost", it's using the default sort order because when I do the above, Media Library is sorted but not from what I had before.

And while were at this....when renaming a view scheme, all the non-predefined sorting / displayed fields are lost.

gkerber, I bet when they check the forums tomorrow and see that most of the posts contain "sort order", I'm sure they'll fix it.

xen-uno · « **Reply #17 on:** April 20, 2003, 08:44:29 pm »

One last thing...

The visual column sort indicators (^1, ^2, ^3 ...) are only visible if you use a skin (pixOS in my case). They are not visible (in fact, no visual clues other than noticing track order) when skins are disabled.

10^-27

PS: If you guys like Trance music, check out Stellamara...vocally & instrumentally totally tubular!

Marko · « **Reply #18 on:** April 21, 2003, 12:19:56 am »

Just adding my weight to this one. Since the sticky stuff was introduced I've never been able to achieve a happy medium with it. Quite frankly, I don't like it. The theory is excellent, the practice sadly lacking.
This needs to go, either that, or (sorry matt) some user options introduced to help tame the beast that is sticky views.
IMO, it would be good to keep the sticky "which columns are visible where" bit, but that sort order stuff? Guys it just gives me a headache.
What about RemyJ's workaround? Editing a load of view schemes/smartlists could be a lot of work. How about if we had a dialogue, or a field in the "tree and view settings" area where we could choose a default, and have this applied automatically across the board, ML included. Maybe even one default each for audio, video and image databases?
One of the most annoying kick-backs from sticky views for me is that I can't always see the track# without scrolling right, and, as I expect my albums to be displayed in the correct track order, regardless of how many are in the list or where in the tree I am, I get caught out by it time and time again. If I then click a column header or 2 for whatever reason, I expect that next time I open that list, that albums will once again be sorted in the correct track order, and of course, they are not.
I've genuinely tried to get used to the sticky views since they were introduced, but am at the point now where I'm praying MC9 does not go "final" without some changes in this area.
btw, Gkerber, you'll be back, I know you will, MC is like that, it kinda gets a grip of you

gkerber · « **Reply #19 on:** April 21, 2003, 05:21:41 am »

Of course I'll be back. I've been using v8 for quite a while, couldn't live without it now, I don't even own a cd playger/changer anymore, my pc has a digital coax connection to my living room audio system.

But that sort order......

Doof · « **Reply #20 on:** April 21, 2003, 05:52:24 am »

I agree completely that sort order was prett effectively ruined when sticky views was implemented.

Does anybody actually want different sort orders for different tree nodes? I only ask because I can't forsee it being anything that I'm interested in, and I haven't yet seen anybody come forward defending the idea.

I was one of the people who wanted sticky views, but primarily because I wanted different columns to show up in different places. I don't remember if I ever asked for it to save sort order on a per view basis. If I did, I was wrong.

I sometimes feel bad for JRiver. I know there have been several times that users have voiced very strong opinions about a certain feature, only to do a complete 180 once that feature was implemented and they got to see exactly what having it would mean. The select all on none thing comes to mind.

So if I ever did want sticky sort, I now retract it. I also want it to remember a default sort, and allow us to temporarily sort views without ruining that default.

phelt · « **Reply #21 on:** April 21, 2003, 12:22:25 pm »

I'll second Doof's thoughts about software users' wishes...

But I do see a future value for branch-level sort rules. The integration of pictures/movies/etc necessitates a different sorting scheme (for me) for that media. Different tags and different sorting for different media and collections.

Now, as for the view scheme rules showing up in the search bar.... that's another story

Matt · « **Reply #22 on:** April 21, 2003, 12:58:24 pm »

Next build will address this. Sorting won't be sticky by default. (but there'll be an option to make it sticky)

However, you'll be able to right-click and pick "Save Current View" to save the sorting anytime you like.

Oh, and "Sort track # for albums" will be back.

JimH · « **Reply #23 on:** April 21, 2003, 01:01:44 pm »

I have Matt's home address if you want to send him flowers.

Matt · « **Reply #24 on:** April 21, 2003, 01:05:10 pm »

But just remeber that I'm the idiot that messed it up in the first place

phelt · « **Reply #25 on:** April 21, 2003, 01:20:33 pm »

Hooray! Looking forward to it

rocketsauce · « **Reply #26 on:** April 21, 2003, 01:31:28 pm »

Quote

Oh, and "Sort track # for albums" will be back.

xen-uno · « **Reply #27 on:** April 21, 2003, 02:02:17 pm »

Cool Matt!

I can go back to ultra hot, habenero based salsa on my taco's now (the angst caused by the sorting difficulties forced me to back down to mild...difficult to stomach but true).

10^-27

Steve Most · « **Reply #28 on:** April 21, 2003, 02:08:32 pm »

Great! Can't wait.

I thought I was the only one.

Steve

NoCodeUK · « **Reply #29 on:** April 21, 2003, 02:15:04 pm »

Sounds like a good compromise Matt. i myself quite like sticky views and the only time I think there is an issue is if you want to temporarily resort but to not change the default. Can I just confirm therefore that the new options will allow us to us sticky views, save a view, resort and revert back after to the saved view...?? If so that would be particularly cool. Thanks very much as ever!!! You are the greatest, the whole team...

Adam

xen-uno · « **Reply #30 on:** April 21, 2003, 03:15:58 pm »

Oh yeah...that's what I'm talkin' about!

B156 is beautiful...my last major gripe melts away into....excuse me, I'd better leave before I get too emotional.

10^-27

JimH · « **Reply #31 on:** April 21, 2003, 04:09:43 pm »

Listening to: 'Ave Maria' from 'The Legend' by 'Maria Callas' on Media Center 9.0

gkerber · « **Reply #32 on:** April 21, 2003, 06:14:43 pm »

Cool. Think it will be okay, will have to try it.

Thanks Matt. I love the interaction, I came in late, brought up an issue, got support and got a change.

Think Microsoft is as responsive?

How about cd burning, any programming issues? I've had problems with it.

How do we know which burners it supports?

Doof · « **Reply #33 on:** April 21, 2003, 08:23:00 pm »

How exactly is sorting supposed to work in this version?

How do we set up the default sort that we want MC to come back to? Do we just set it on one, use the Save View & Set All Like This commands and then we're done? Or is there something else?

xen-uno · « **Reply #34 on:** April 21, 2003, 09:23:31 pm »

Go to ML and set the sort to your liking. Right click on the ML folder and select "Set to Default" (or is it Save View?...not in front of MC right now). The sort order will now be retained as long as the checkbox in Options pertaining to this is not checked (which is default). This works best with a skin because the column sort heirarchy numbers and direction show (not the case with skinless MC).

To test, do a resort. Now click away from ML and then come back. The default sort you set should be back.

10^-27

MachineHead · « **Reply #35 on:** April 22, 2003, 01:06:15 am »

I think I'm gonna send flowers. Thank you Matt!

PS - Thanks all you squeaky wheels, too!

Marko · « **Reply #36 on:** April 22, 2003, 04:26:12 pm »

A classic "Interact" moment. Brilliant stuff.

JimH · « **Reply #37 on:** April 22, 2003, 05:09:46 pm »

xen-uno · « **Reply #38 on:** April 22, 2003, 06:29:59 pm »

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Display Order (Read 7335 times)

gkerber

gkerber

fex

phelt

MachineHead

gkerber

gkerber

dragyn

MachineHead

gkerber

gkerber

dragyn

Marko

gkerber

phelt

phelt

gkerber

MachineHead

Marko