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[Dampier]

I don't know why the original thread was locked, but after reading the replies, it's clear J River will be steadfastly sticking to YADB, which is fine for them I suppose, but not fine for those of us who don't want to spend forever entering data just to cope with our collection of more obscure music.  I am happy to do it when I have some free time, but I am not going to do it for the thousands of CD's I have in my collection I just know aren't listed.

While some may enjoy their N-Sync, Eminem, and Jennifer Lopez CD's, which I am certain are all well-listed, my more eclectic collection is certainly not.

CDDB has far more extensive (and accurate) listings, and after exploring their own web page, they have a large selection of listed players which still support CDDB (ironically, Media Jukebox is still listed).  So I question whether or not all of the major players have dropped out of CDDB.  While I don't agree with some of the onerous requirements some have mentioned about signing contracts with Gracenote, the reason they can get away with it is because they have a product that excels above the rest.  Of course I support the development of a competitive database system, but for a product I faithfully support with my registration dollars, I expect more.

In fact, the recent push to introducing video and other features into Media Jukebox is IMHO going to turn this into Bloatware (a-la Real Player).  I need a player that will handle all aspects of my audio needs, and that means the ability to provide CD information without a hassle.  If I wanted a hassle, I'll use one of the free players.  I don't need or care about video - there are lots of mature products out there that already handle that just fine.

Software developers seem to think that users won't be happy unless more and more and more is pushed into a product (Real Player is an absolutely perfect example of this).  Those who wanted those features could have run Real Jukebox.  Most didn't and stuck with what worked just fine.  The same is true, at least for me, with Media Jukebox.  I -need- CDDB far, far, FAR more than support for video.  I guarantee you I'll be irritated everytime I put a CD in that YADB doesn't recognize... but gosh darn I can watch Jerry Springer on my CD player software.  Oooh.

Unfortunately, I am shopping for a new player that can handle what I need, and I'll sleep fine at nights coping with the fact it won't let me watch QVC.

[JimH]

You're making a lot of bold statements.  I'll just summarize.

CDDB is accurate.

At this time, CDDB _might_ return more successful lookups, but the quality of the entries is doubtful.  We're aiming higher with YADB, but it will take some time.

bloatware...video

For the reason you state, we have split MJ into two products: Media Jukebox and Media Center.  You can find out more here:

http://www.musicex.com/mediajukebox/comparison.html

So I question whether or not all of the major players have dropped out of CDDB.

WMP, Real, and MusicMatch do not use CDDB.  Winamp does.  

If you will be patient with YADB, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

[KingSparta]

Also Easy CD Creator (From Roxio\ADAPTEC) No Longer Uses CDDB

[TimB]

CDDB has far more extensive (and accurate) listings, and after exploring their own web page, they have a large selection of listed players which still support CDDB (ironically, Media Jukebox is still listed).  So I question whether or not all of the major players have dropped out of CDDB.  

One things for sure, the accuracy of their listings of who actively supports them isn't all that good.  Media Jukebox is clearly not the only one that no longer actively uses CDDB.

...I guarantee you I'll be irritated everytime I put a CD in that YADB doesn't recognize... but gosh darn I can watch Jerry Springer on my CD player software.  Oooh.

...


Unfortunately, I am shopping for a new player that can handle what I need, and I'll sleep fine at nights coping with the fact it won't let me watch QVC.

I'm offended by the patronizing tone of this statement.  While it might not appeal to your belief of what the universal order should be, people like Jerry Springer or QVC or CSI or South Park or (consult tvguide.com for more).  For JRiver to thrive, which I know I want in order to support the features of Media Center that I use, they need to produce a product that will compete in the marketplace.

Ya know while I'd like a program specifically tailored to my needs, personally speaking I probably won't use Media Center for TV, I don't have the money to pay for a dedicated team of developers and managers to do my bidding or an unlimited budget to license products from other companies.

What Media Center have done is provide the strongest package of feature that I've seen.  I am a convert from RealOne (they say converts are the worst ) and can speak to the difference in both features and receptiveness to input.

-=Tim=-

[Dampier]

I'm offended by the patronizing tone of this statement.  While it might not appeal to your belief of what the universal order should be, people like Jerry Springer or QVC or CSI or South Park or (consult tvguide.com for more).  For JRiver to thrive, which I know I want in order to support the features of Media Center that I use, they need to produce a product that will compete in the marketplace.

You have a thin skin if you assume a critique of a product is akin to a personal attack on an individual.  I am commenting on a product and the features it contains.  I am not attacking those who made it... I am criticizing the direction the product itself is headed.

I am sure plenty of people like Jerry Springer and QVC.  They can watch it on their television sets or, using the software that came with their TV video card (or software that specializes in recording video), and I'm sure are quite content.  I suspect many aren't going to think "hmmm... I should watch this on the software I use to play my CD's."

I purchased Media Jukebox because it did an excellent job of doing what I was looking for - handle my CD library.  I didn't buy it hoping that they would remove a feature I need to give me something I don't.

I am a convert from RealOne (they say converts are the worst  ) and can speak to the difference in both features and receptiveness to input.

You have no argument with me about RealOne.  It's a nightmare and I loathe its existence.  But that doesn't mean losing CDDB support makes me happy.

[TimB]

If you re-read the quote of yours I referred to and my comments you'll realize I wasn't offended by your comments about MJ/MC and CDDB.

-=Tim=-

[DocLotus]

I have seen a tremendous improvement in YADB since it was first introduced.

I have experienced many more hits (some very suprising considering the rearity of 10 free demo CD's I got from Planet Music who has been out of business since 95).  9 of the 10 CD's were already on YADB.  None of them were on CDDB until I put them there.

As far as bloatware is concerned with MC9, just look at the file sizes...  it's still under 10 M Byte & has been since it was first introduced.  It's just a little larger then MJ8 but it does so much more.

Some of the so-called competitors are running around 12 M Byte & do less then MC9.

If you look at the feature list that is being considered for MC9, it will become one awsome product when it nears completion.

I don't know about you guys, but I want the best... and MC9 gets my vote EVERY TIME!

[Skeet]

I'm on the side of Dampier here. Accessing CD data from the internet is surely a core part of the product.  OK so maybe CDDB wasn't completely accurate, but at least you got a match and were able to correct any errors yourself. I'm putting CD's in and deciding not to rip them if they're not on the YADB (which for my taste in music is about 75% of the time).

I think Media Jukebox was an excellent product and very good value for the use I got out of it. I would pay at least an extra $15 for my license to have CDDB functionality included. I'd even pay for it as an extra plug-in. Having just paid for an upgrade to MC 9, I'm finding the product unusable and I'm having to reinstall an old version on a spare machine I have simply to rip CD's and then import them on to the other machine.

I can see that J River are going to be resolute about this, but I just don't think they've thought through how it actually effects their customers. They can add alll the bells and whistles they like to their new versions, but if the software can't find the track listing, it's pointless.

[KingSparta]

This Is Going No Place, CDDB Is Not Coming Back.

[JimH]

Skeet,
KingSparta is correct on this.  We're not going to go back to CDDB.  We had more problems (and complaints) about CDDB than we do about YADB.  You can see this if you want to try a search for "CDDB problem" and search the last year of posts here.

Track lookups will not return hits often, but CD lookups of _purchased_ genuine CD's should return hits more than 60% of the time.  Both hit rates will climb over the next year as data is entered.

In addition to hit rate, accuracy of the data is important, and YADB is at least as accurate as CDDB already.

Lastly, we wrote YADB from scratch, so we have the source and can fix problems.  CDDB offered us little help in the way of error handling.  It was a "black box" that often didn't work.

Jim

[Skeet]

Fair enough, you've made your decision and are sticking with it. However you might want to think about getting your link taken off the CDDB (gracenote) website as software that uses their database. It could be construed as misleading.

[KingSparta]

Fair enough, you've made your decision and are sticking with it. However you might want to think about getting your link taken off the CDDB (gracenote) website as software that uses their database. It could be construed as misleading.

The problem with your comment is, MJ Version 6, 7, 8 Still works with CDDB if you happen to have signed up as a user with CDDB and Used MJ at that time (or so it should). If the signup was prior to the License termination.

[Skeet]

The point is, I feel misled. I've just paid for an upgrade to version 9 and I was unaware of this key change. It's not been made very clear to those upgrading that CDDB functionality was being lost. Obviously it's not something you want to shout about, but it would have been nice to know.

[shAf]

In addition to hit rate, accuracy of the data is important, and YADB is at least as accurate as CDDB already.

 Is YADB accessable with a browser?
(... e.g., www.freedb.org ...)

[John Gateley]

YADB is not accessible with a browser yet., though it will be in the future.

j