Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[IlPadrino]

From http://news.com.com/Firefox+drawing+fans+away+from+Microsoft+IE/2100-1032_3-5368302.html:

The gains for Firefox, which was released in a version 1.0 preview on Tuesday, and for Mozilla are most noticeable at Web sites popular by geek-chic early adopters. For example, W3Schools.com, a Web development tutorial site found that Mozilla-based browsers were used by 18 percent of its visitors in September, up from 8 percent in January. Internet Explorer use dropped to 75 percent from 84 percent in the same period.

Among CNET News.com readers, site visitors with the Firefox and Mozilla browsers jumped to 18 percent for the first two weeks of September, up from 8 percent in January.

The Mozilla Foundation, which develops both the Mozilla and Firefox browsers and their underlying Gecko browsing engine, has noted that downloads of the Firefox browser have doubled from 3 million for version 0.8 to 6 million for version 0.9. The group said that almost 160,000 people have downloaded the latest version of Firefox, the 1.0 release candidate.

I hope JRiver is taking notice.

[TimB]

I love Firefox and I'm using 1.0PR

...only downside is that the "Bookmarks Synchronizer" Extension that I LOVED and that worked with 0.9.x doesn't work under 1.0PR!!!  

-=Tim=-

[paulr]

I've been using it off and on since 0.6, and full time since 0.7.  The last version (0.9) was great, but 1.0PR is exceptional.  AI Roboform doesn't have an adapter for it yet, but pretty much every other extension I use has been updated.

If your extension isn't 1.0PR compatible according to the "official" extension site, check out http://www.extensionsmirror.nl/index.php?showforum=2 .  They seem to get updates more quickly.

[kaiynne]

What is the crossover point in browser usage at which IE would no longer be considered the "industry standard"?

[Sauzee]

It would be interesting to know what the browser share figures were for this site. I'd imagine  firefox would have a pretty high share.

I like Firefox but use Maxthon more at the moment - I guess that's probably counted as IE in terms of the browser share stats.

[TimB]

If your extension isn't 1.0PR compatible according to the "official" extension site, check out http://www.extensionsmirror.nl/index.php?showforum=2 .  They seem to get updates more quickly.

Thanks!

I found Bookmarks Synchronizer, it returns an error message when its downloading bookmarks but even then it does appear to work!! YEAH!!!!

This allows me to use an ftp site to keep one set of Bookmarks that my PC's download from when Firefox starts and upload to when it quits.

-=Tim=-

[JimH]

It would be interesting to know what the browser share figures were for this site. I'd imagine  firefox would have a pretty high share.

Last time I looked IE was above 90%.

[IlPadrino]

It would be interesting to know what the browser share figures were for this site. I'd imagine  firefox would have a pretty high share.

Last time I looked IE was above 90%.

I'd think such a number is "unfairly" inflated because some (many?) users access INTERACT from within MC so they're forced to use IE.

This became an issue with FeedDemon (perhaps the best RSS Aggregator out there) because many users didn't want to be a part of the MS bandwagon.  To Nick Bradbury's credit, he added the ability to render using Mozilla even though I don't believe it's officially supported.  Maybe JRiver could do the same?

[JimH]

Scott,
We've been around this tree so many times I'm getting dizzy.  Can we just let sleeping dogs lie?

Jim

[IlPadrino]

I posted this as OT because I found it to be interesting news -  not because I wanted to dredge up old dogs (is that a mixed metaphor?).  But, hey, I'm sure TimB appreciated the topic as it inspired a helpful post.

If there's a list of barred topics, let me know and I'll do my best to abide.

[JimH]

If there's a list of barred topics, let me know and I'll do my best to abide.

Please don't post anything that bugs me.  Thanks for asking.

[Matt]

If there's a list of barred topics, let me know and I'll do my best to abide.

Please don't post anything that bugs me.  Thanks for asking.

And don't pop bubble wrap either. (inside joke)

[JimH]

And don't pop bubble wrap either. (inside joke)

That's not funny.

[TimB]

I posted this as OT because I found it to be interesting news -  not because I wanted to dredge up old dogs (is that a mixed metaphor?).  But, hey, I'm sure TimB appreciated the topic as it inspired a helpful post.

If there's a list of barred topics, let me know and I'll do my best to abide.

I did appreciate the topic as its really helped me out but I think Jim's asking us to layoff the "why doesn't JRiver do more for non-IE browsers" issue.  Maybe you realize this but I thought I'd restate it.

Now I LOVE popping bubblewrap!

-=Tim=-

[Robert Taylor]

I too am a bubblewrap popper from way back. In fact, I would go so far as to say that I am one of the pioneers of bubblewrap popping here in Australia.

It is very enjoyable. I prefer the larger size as you get more pop for your buck.

Being a Friday here, I am somewhat sad, as by the end of the week, I am too pooped to pop...

BTW, I don't much care what browser I use as long as it works...but I prefer a browser with a bubblewrap skin. Hey, now there's a thought..."interactive" skins for software, whereby there are areas with knobs, sliders, and little things that spin around and stuff which don't actually do anything, but may make a noise (like "pop") when pressed (sort of like Fischer Price software).

[Valissystem]

My two daughters call it "Popping paper" - nuff said!

[Alex B]

http://www.virtual-bubblewrap.com/popnow.shtml

I know this is the only reason you came
Pop some bubblewrap now!

and this: http://www.virtual-bubblewrap.com/popnow-insane.shtml

[Robert Taylor]

Now I've seen everything...

[GHammer]

It would be interesting to know what the browser share figures were for this site. I'd imagine  firefox would have a pretty high share.

Last time I looked IE was above 90%.

I'd think such a number is "unfairly" inflated because some (many?) users access INTERACT from within MC so they're forced to use IE.

This became an issue with FeedDemon (perhaps the best RSS Aggregator out there) because many users didn't want to be a part of the MS bandwagon.

If folks are so tired of the "MS Bandwagon" I believe there are stops on its route. Hop off. Others don't seem to share the "I hate MS" sentiment and won't change their app to suit that view? Too bad.

Lots of times I see the anti-MS crowd is actually the I want an app that works in the manner I have decided all things should be. I have no actual programming skills, I haven't ever done much of anything productive in the internet/computing world, but I'm darned well going to insist that you do things MY way. And if you don't then you are bad, bad, bad and I will rant against you until the day I die.

You know, MC is a very nice tool. It doesn't work exactly as I'd make the GHammer Player, but I didn't write it. I chose it when I outgrew the Windows Media Player. WMP is a good player for MP3s and WM. But once you no longer want those formats, you gotta go. So I chose this app to do music. Over time have there been choices made that I don't like. But as long as they don't ruin the abilities I do care about then what does it matter?

Finally, just why is IE 6 a bad app? I haven't ever seen an explaination other than "It's MS" which is no arguement against using it to me.

[IlPadrino]

If folks are so tired of the "MS Bandwagon" I believe there are stops on its route. Hop off. Others don't seem to share the "I hate MS" sentiment and won't change their app to suit that view? Too bad.

Yup.  There are other browers... so the route has stops.  But it's not about the "I hate MS" perspective:  it's about the poor characteristics of MSIE.  If I gave the impression that MSIE is bad only because it's developed by MS, I apologize.

Lots of times I see the anti-MS crowd is actually the I want an app that works in the manner I have decided all things should be. I have no actual programming skills, I haven't ever done much of anything productive in the internet/computing world, but I'm darned well going to insist that you do things MY way. And if you don't then you are bad, bad, bad and I will rant against you until the day I die.

You know, MC is a very nice tool. It doesn't work exactly as I'd make the GHammer Player, but I didn't write it. I chose it when I outgrew the Windows Media Player. WMP is a good player for MP3s and WM. But once you no longer want those formats, you gotta go. So I chose this app to do music. Over time have there been choices made that I don't like. But as long as they don't ruin the abilities I do care about then what does it matter?

This has nothing to do with the functionality of MC.  You seem to miss the point based on your paragraphs above.

Finally, just why is IE 6 a bad app? I haven't ever seen an explaination other than "It's MS" which is no arguement against using it to me.

If you want a comprehensive answer to that question, just google your way to enlightenment, especially the Groups.  I'll get you started, though:  Microsoft stopped developing IE after they won the browser war.  There are lots of unfixed security issues.  MSIE doesn't insist on conformance to the W3C HTML 4.01 standard.  Transparent PNGs don't work.  CSS2 doesn't work.

I'd go on, but I don't want to make JimH mad:  he'll take away my bubble wrap.

[TimB]

Also has anyone checked out Foxytunes, a Firefox extension that puts player controls on your browser window?  And YES it supports our favorite media player.  I've got mine up in my file/edit/view/go/bookmarks/tools/help menu bar, off to the right.

http://www.iosart.com/foxytunes/firefox/

...and vote for MC!

-=Tim=-

[benrad]

Also has anyone checked out Foxytunes, a Firefox extension that puts player controls on your browser window?  And YES it supports our favorite media player.  I've got mine up in my file/edit/view/go/bookmarks/tools/help menu bar, off to the right.

http://www.iosart.com/foxytunes/firefox/

...and vote for MC!

-=Tim=-

Have you been able to get it to work for v11?

[TimB]

Also has anyone checked out Foxytunes, a Firefox extension that puts player controls on your browser window?  And YES it supports our favorite media player.  I've got mine up in my file/edit/view/go/bookmarks/tools/help menu bar, off to the right.

http://www.iosart.com/foxytunes/firefox/

...and vote for MC!

-=Tim=-

Have you been able to get it to work for v11?

Working right now.

Started up Firefox and then hit Play amd got "Happy" from "Exile on Main Street" by "The Rolling Stones"!

-=Tim=-

-=Tim=-

[bebop]

OOOOOHHHHH...bubblewrap and tunes, my favorites!  thanks for the links guys....just a couple more little items to add to my obcession list!    Now I'll never get anything done!  I love MC, Love Firefox and hope they can live happily ever after.   Gonna go pop some bubble wrap now

[xen-uno]

IE w/ Googlebar (which has popup blocking) is not bad...but FF with or without extensions still smokes it. I'm glad IE is fading out...albeit way to slowly. It's been hindering implementation of several standards (and standards to be) for years now.

Regarding FoxyTunes...

The only player I've had success with is WMP...FT has a confusing menu structure where you can pick a player via Main Menu>Player>Select (MC not listed) or Main Menu>Player>Options where MC is listed. How do you have yours set? Using PR1 of FF.

10^-27

[kaiynne]

I just set it up and everything isworking except It will not let me configure where i want it to appear.  i have gmail notifier and weatherfox down there, i need to put it up at the top.  the other thing that is not working is the scrolling song title.  Any ideas?

[IlPadrino]

Finally, just why is IE 6 a bad app? I haven't ever seen an explaination other than "It's MS" which is no arguement against using it to me.

I've promised to stop popping bubblewrap, but they say to never give up two vices at once.  So here's another reason:

http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack

Freezing? Oh, yes. As in locking it up so that people had to use the Task Manager to force-quit the process. There were probably a few reboots out there as well; there were at least a couple here in Casa de Meyer. Ordinarily, I’d apologize. Not this time. If you want an apology, try finding the person or persons responsible for IE’s CSS handling, and demand an apology from them. I’m not taking the rap for this.

[xen-uno]

Nevermind on Foxy...it can't start MC (10 or 11), but once started manually and with proper FT options selected, control of MC works just fine. The section that is supposed to display track title (AFAIK) just displays Media Center here.

10^-27

[AoXoMoXoA]

I know where we can get Bubble-Wrap really cheap as a group buy on a truckload    

[IlPadrino]

I know where we can get Bubble-Wrap really cheap as a group buy on a truckload    

Let's agree to have it delivered to
   125 N. First Street
   Minneapolis, Minnesota 55401

We can divy it up from there.

[TimB]

Nevermind on Foxy...it can't start MC (10 or 11), but once started manually and with proper FT options selected, control of MC works just fine. The section that is supposed to display track title (AFAIK) just displays Media Center here.

10^-27

Right, this is my experience.  I hadn't expected it to start MC tho' that would be nice.

-=Tim=-

[GHammer]

If you want a comprehensive answer to that question, just google your way to enlightenment, especially the Groups.  I'll get you started, though:  Microsoft stopped developing IE after they won the browser war.  There are lots of unfixed security issues.  MSIE doesn't insist on conformance to the W3C HTML 4.01 standard.  Transparent PNGs don't work.  CSS2 doesn't work.

Sorry, 'Go Google' isn't exactly a well thought out position.
I.E. 6 seems fairly complete to me, to many. I browse websites with it. Does a right fine job of it too.

"Lots of unfixed security issues". Such as? I haven't really seen any killer security issues that aren't handled in a timely manner. I do see that many users don't bother to get updates.

I'll grant that I.E. will render about any crap thrown at it. If it didn't then folks would be complaining that they can't use this or that site. I'll take "display what you're fed". I don't picture myself going to websites telling them that they aren't in compliance.

Lacks good/any PNG support? So? Is there a crying need for another flavor of ad banners?

I'll stick with my position. I.E. 6 works well, gets the job done for millions, and I'll give MS full credit for destroying the ever arrogant Netscape. For that alone I'll stand by it.

More importantly, I see nothing mentioned here that would have a bit of effect on MC. So why do major surgery to support the flavor of the week browser?

[IlPadrino]

Sorry, 'Go Google' isn't exactly a well thought out position.
.
.
.

"Go google" isn't a position; it is a suggestion that you can learn more by doing your own research than by reading my (most likley) poorly distilled position.  Of course, if you have no desire to be enlightened, then it would be a waste of time.

You wrote;

"Lots of unfixed security issues". Such as? I haven't really seen any killer security issues that aren't handled in a timely manner. I do see that many users don't bother to get updates.

What security issues, you ask?  Take a look at this article:  http://www.internetnews.com/security/article.php/3374931.  It's a summary of a CERT Vulnerability Note (http://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/713878) which, among other things, recommends the use of a browser other than IE:

There are a number of significant vulnerabilities in technologies relating to the IE domain/zone security model, the DHTML object model, MIME type determination, the graphical user interface (GUI), and ActiveX. It is possible to reduce exposure to these vulnerabilities by using a different web browser, especially when browsing untrusted sites.

CERT first reported this vulnerability on 9 June.  Microsoft didn't release an update until 30 July.  I don't consider that a timely "handling" of the issue.

You said:

I'll grant that I.E. will render about any crap thrown at it. If it didn't then folks would be complaining that they can't use this or that site. I'll take "display what you're fed". I don't picture myself going to websites telling them that they aren't in compliance.

I think you've mistaken the chicken for the egg.  Webdesigners create uncompliant sites *because* IE will render them in a pleasant manner.  If IE refused to overlook errors or guess what the designer had in mind, webdesigners wouldn't write non-compliant HTML; you wouldn't have to go to the websites to tell them.  Indeed, its IE that requires *me* to go to webdesigners to tell them that their sites don't conform to HTML4.01.

You wrote:

Lacks good/any PNG support? So? Is there a crying need for another flavor of ad banners?

PNG has nothing to do with ad banners.  Don't you find it interesting that the MC start page uses .gif and .jpg images, while the skin graphics put out by JRiver use .png images?

You wrote:

I'll give MS full credit for destroying the ever arrogant Netscape. For that alone I'll stand by it.

Now that's funny!  Like MS has never been called arrogant before.

You wrote:

More importantly, I see nothing mentioned here that would have a bit of effect on MC. So why do major surgery to support the flavor of the week browser?

Try using the WeatherFeed I developed.  It doesn't work as well as it could because of the PNG issue.

Firefox is hardly a "flavor of the week" browser - the link I first posted provides evidence of this.  And I'm not here to convince you.  I'm not really here to convince JRiver, either.  As Jim rightly pointed out, we've been around this tree many times.  But I'll continue to keep writing an OT post every now and again when I see some new "news" on Firefox.  And I'll continue to hope that if a one-man software development shop behind FeedDemon can implement browser choice to the product, maybe the larger JRiver crew will someday do the same.  [OK, that was a cheap shot!  Sorry.]

[salsbst1]

I blame the web designers, not the browser.  Unfortunately it's tough to fight Microsoft.

I got religion last week when it finally sunk in that companies look at collected browser stats to decide whether it is important to write standards-compliant pages.  It's hard for me to accept that, b/c the one thing that I hold more dear than the principle of allocation of scarce resources is standards compliance, but it's true.

So, I'm no longer hitting sites with IE.  Firefox all the way.

As it turns out, Firefox is an exceptionally good piece of software.

Can anyone say, "Web Developer extension"?  What a gift.

P.S.  I don't care whether J River supports non-IE browsers for internal app stuff.  I can't figure out why I should care.   I still can't figure out why I would want to browse the web inside of Media Center.

[bebop]

Web security is a big issue with some of us.  In this months issue of PC World (page 34) , Art manion of the Department of Homeland Security  suggests that people use a different browser because of the ongoing issues of IE's security flaws.  it was interesting reading.   I love firefox for many reasons ( I can totally customize it, the tabs)  and it gets updated quickly - unlike IE these past years.   And that's my two cents (Cdn.)      Bet

[Michel Lefebvre]

Web security is very important to everyone, (or it should be at least).

But lets be careful about not falling into a false sence of security just because one uses alternatives to IE. Mozilla has its problems also.

You may want to consult this advisary that the US-CERT (United States Computer Emergency Team) put out just 2 days ago.

http://www.us-cert.gov/cas/techalerts/TA04-261A.html

BTW: They have a great newsletter that explain all of the various software flaws as they are discovered.  You can get it at:

http://www.us-cert.gov/cas/signup.html

I find them to be very thorough in their analysis and reporting.

Michel. (Whom has no religion about browsers at all...  )

[IlPadrino]

P.S.  I don't care whether J River supports non-IE browsers for internal app stuff.  I can't figure out why I should care.   I still can't figure out why I would want to browse the web inside of Media Center.

I find I'm in MC an awful lot and I'd appreciate it being a better "portal".  But until MC lets us open webpages internally (smilar to the Start page, which is hard-coded), you're right at hinting this is a moot point.  Personally, I've added www.musicex.com to my hosts file and created my own redirctor.  But it's a pain for me to use a server-side portal because of security restrictions I haven't been able to resolve.

I originally posted this because it was interesting news (to me at least) and we've talked about FF vs. IE in the past.  Unfortunately, we got sidetracked by the question "what is the browser share use on INTERACT?" which I said would be misleading because some people read INTERACT from within MC.  Maybe that's a false premise, though.

[LonWar]

Well I have just finished downloading a slew of browsers..

IE6
MSN9
Maxthon
FireFox
Mozilla
Netscape

I'm gonna playaround with all of them and may write a review... But more importantly I want to see which is the best, for my uses.

[Robert Taylor]

I've been using Maxthon for quite some time, and despite it being an IE derivative, I'm very happy with it. It blocks pop-ups.

I maintain my machine viz, antivirus, spyware scanning etc. I have had NO serious security related problems.

If you keep your machine up to date, you will suffer less.

After reading these posts, I decided to try the latest Firefox. After installation, I went to import my favourites. The software hung. I ended up having to end-task it. Then I un-installed it.

I may look at it again when it's more mature. Until then I'll stick with Maxthon/IE until they give me cause for serious complaint.

[IlPadrino]

But lets be careful about not falling into a false sence of security just because one uses alternatives to IE. Mozilla has its problems also.

You may want to consult this advisary that the US-CERT (United States Computer Emergency Team) put out just 2 days ago.

http://www.us-cert.gov/cas/techalerts/TA04-261A.html

Granted, there is no such thing as a perfectly secure browser, but notice how quick a fix was available for that particular problem.

I like the CERT alerts and bulletins, but its a shame they don't have an RSS feed...  or do they?

[hit_ny]

Well I have just finished downloading a slew of browsers..

IE6
MSN9
Maxthon
FireFox
Mozilla
Netscape

I'm gonna playaround with all of them and may write a review... But more importantly I want to see which is the best, for my uses.

Don't forget Opera.

Its not free but its better than firefox. Their free version has google style ads.

[escaflo]

Personally I've used the following browsers:

IE 6
NS 4
NS 6
Mozilla Suite 1.7.3
Firefox 0.8-0.10 (Preview)
Opera 7.54, 7.60 (Preview)
Maxthon
Advant Browser
and a slew of other browsers which are based of the IE core.

I still prefer Firefox among all this browsers because, simply, it is standard compliant and yet it doesn't break as many pages as Opera does. I like Opera interface but it doesn't render too many websites as well as Firefox and it has problem with Gmail (which I uses). Preview 7.60 allow us to login to Gmail but it still doesn't fix the problem of rendering.

Granted that Firefox also got its quirks when it comes to rendering website, but most of the time it is because of bad HTML coding. But Firefox display enough of the websites around fine enough for me and as such, it is still my primary browser.

As for IE, security is really one big issue which totally help push me away from it. You may say that Firefox also got its security issue, but IE still sticks out like a sore thumb to me. One of my friend learnt his lesson the hard way when he got a trojan that was infected via a website (can't really remember the name, but it was the one that allow the trojan to be installed to your computer via a visit to a website that was hacked into, without any user intervention required). He now uses Firefox too.

Firefox isn't really a hard browser to get use too also. I've managed to convert a lot of my friends to use Firefox and none of them has regretted the conversion. In fact, most of them seems to like Firefox a lot more with its extensions.

Opera is a good browser to watch for, but until it can solve most of the rendering quirks, I will still stick to Firefox.

Just my 2 cents from Firefox.