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[Scronch]

A new twist on the previous subject line.

In the MJ8 Dead post, JimH said (on Oct 29th):

>MJ8 is not dead.  The last build was a week ago.  The next build should be a few days away.

But the MJ 8.0.388 post shows that it was released on Oct 11th.

That's a long time ago.

Scronch

[michel]

But the MJ 8.0.388 post shows that it was released on Oct 11th.

That's a long time ago.

This "long time" is very short if you compare to most of others software !

I am myself very impatient to get new builds (MJ8 & MJ9) but I cannot reasonably complain not to have it every week.

[Scronch]

Perhaps I wasn't clear.  This is not a commentary on JRiver's release intervals.  It is an observation that most resources seem allocated to MJ9, the image/video/DVD Media Center product.  I and other audio users have some concern about that.

Scronch

[JimH]

At some point in the future the version 9 source will give birth to an audio only baby.


borrowed from http://www.cdbaby.com, a nice company

[Scronch]

Yes, I understand.  But I think what has happened is that some (many?) of the audio users are not assisting with the testing of MJ9, mainly because they have no interest in image/video/etc at this time.  As a result, they have no input on audio improvements, because MJ8 development is now so slow.

Scronch

[JimH]

I think what has happened is that some (many?) of the audio users are not assisting with the testing of MJ9, mainly because they have no interest in image/video/etc at this time.  As a result, they have no input on audio improvements, because MJ8 development is now so slow.

That's a good point.  We have plenty of testers right now and many of them are interested in audio.  I don't think anyone's going to get left behind.

We went through this last time, too.  In the early stages, people are reluctant to test.  Sound familiar?  It works out OK, since the ones who do test have more impact on development.

[dac4m]

I agree with the originator of the thread...

MJ 8 has been cast aside very quickly for version 9 development.

FOr video people this is very exciting.

For us audio enthusiasts, there is no need to upgrade or even play with new versions.

The auto smartlists are cool, and frankly I dont know why they cant be added to version 8.  Yes I know if you put that in 8, why would people upgrade to 9..  But, it is a small tweak of smartlists.  My impression of an upgrade is that it should provide a big step up from prior version.  9.0 may due this in the video/dvd realm... but the audio realm seems barely improved...

but you do nice work and im sure if i dont buy 9 ill probably buy 10.

[michel]

Matt told about a new audio playback engine. There are also a much more advanced tagging system and many others new audio features as bpm or intensity calculation. It is not only smartlists. So I don't think audio is left out in MJ9.

Of course, I would prefer to have it in MJ8 but I can understand JRiver team dreams to eat caviar every day  

[xen-uno]

>>MJ 8 has been cast aside very quickly for version 9 development.

Hardly...consider v9 to be v8+. The "feature set" for v8 is complete...now it's a matter of bug reduction, and responsiveness on JRiver's part has been totally tubular to date (IMO). Many expect ideas to be incorporated into v8 NOW. JRiver is a corporation, and as such is going to hold some features "back" so they can make a dime on the next version. I have absolutely no problem with that.

Xenno

[nila]

This is all fine and well except for the fact that the latest build of MJ8 has a big bug that I reported in the thread that still hasn't been fixed.

Entering Search Criteria into the View Scheme's is resulting in empty view schemes for me.

Surely that's big enough to warrant a new build??

[Scronch]

>The "feature set" for v8 is complete

No, it's not.  There are dozens of things that have been discussed and requested on this forum.  They have not been worked into MJ8.  Some have been worked into MJ9, but most of the effort would appear to be on the the Media Center aspect.  I'm not saying that every wish should be implemented, but audio effort within MJ8 is dead, admittedly or not.

Normally, I would agree entirely that a company should move on to the next version.  But JimH has stated the (rather odd, imho) plan that MJ8 will continue to be the MJ-type product and MJ9 will grow into the MC product; then eventually a build of MJ will come out of the MC source.  That statement implies (to me, anyway) continued effort on MJ8.  But I see little to none.

I don't even know why this bothers me.  I guess I'd prefer a clearer statement of what the MJ8/MJ9/MJ/MC growth path is going to be.  Maybe communicating such information is unimportant to gaining marketshare; I don't know.

Got a game to watch now.

Scronch

[JimH]

Scronch,
Clarity:
MJ8 is done, except for bug fixes.

MJ9 is our focus.  It will split into two products:

1.  All Media
2.  Music Only

Jim

Good luck tonight.

[phelt]

This is what I worry about with the new Media Center version:
There will be good things for audio-only users in v9, but those users will have to wait on the HTPC feature development, which will take more time than addressing audio-only issues.

I wish v9 could be split now, and audio features addressed independently of video, etc. But I suspect that we have a long wait ahead.

[Matt]

I think you folks worry too much.

Media Jukebox 9 will be a substantially better product all around -- even if all you use is audio.  We promise.

And if you're really concerned, the best thing you can do is to lend a hand as a beta tester on version 9.  That way, you'll be able to play an active role in shaping the future.

[Matt]

Some of the big audio-only improvements already in MJ 9:

• cover art thumbnail mode (with album grouping)
  
• output plugin support (with ASIO output)
  
• output format and input format separate (44.1khz / 2ch / 16bit could be output at 192khz / 5.1ch / 32bit)
  
• new database format -- much, much faster; uses 1/4 the memory
  
• built-in file explorer
  
• new CD burning engine with on-the-fly decoding, DSP, cross-fading, etc.
  
• new, simplified smartlist system
  
• improved file property system -- streamlined approach makes tagging a lot faster
  
• fluid tagging (tm) with undo and redo
  
• external tool support for seamlessly using tools like Cool Edit or Winamp
  

There are lots of other things too -- and we're not done yet.

[Scronch]

Clarity:
MJ8 is done, except for bug fixes.

MJ9 is our focus.  It will split into two products:

1.  All Media
2.  Music Only

Thank you, Jim.  That was really what I was looking for.  I'm not sure it has been put that clearly prior to this.

Matt, those are certainly worthy audio improvements.  My concern is that, unless I risk my installation running alpha (or early beta) code [read "risk my installation" as "risk my livelihood"], I have no input on MJ9, and therefore no input on the improvements to the audio development.  For example, two areas that have gotten a lot of press in this forum are the desire for better statistics (similar to MJ7), and the need for better command line options (state-independent, non-toggle options for shuffle and continuous).  You can argue that these will be used by less people than each improvement that has been implemented (I would disagree), but my point is that unless I choose to load an early version of a product whose image/video/etc bugs put my installation at risk, I cannot provide input on the audio development.  (Except that I just did.)

I guess what I'm saying is, the way this is being done, I think you may lose some audio customers.  I think phelt said clearly in his last sentence what it took me multiple posts to convey.

But, the Packers kicked butt, and Cris Carter is still a whiner who can't hold onto the ball.  

Scronch

[Matt]

I think we've said everything there is to be said.

Media Jukebox 9 will be better -- even for audio-only folks.

I'm going to close this now and hope we can focus on moving forward.  If you would like to help us, we would appreciate it.