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[Listener]

I've starting ripping my CD collection to Flac format using EAC and the Flac encoder.  I was disturbed to discover that MC 11 didn't import a few Flac files and provided no warning.  This is a serious flaw in the User Interface!

I'm ripping classical music so there is a lot of tedious but demanding work to do geting files into the right directories with file names that will describe the contents in case I need to recover later.  Getting the right tags is quite tedious.

There appear to have been two different problems:

1 - several files has names too long to suit MC 11 so I shortened the names.  So what are the limits?

2 - One file seemed to give problems when I attempted to play it with MC 11 from Windows Explorer.  I tried this many times. Usually MC 11 didn't play the file and didn't produce any message.  Once MC 11 crashed.  Once MC 11 produced a message box with the message

"Media Center encountered errors while trying to play the last several files. Plase make sure that the path in your media library points to the right location."

Well, at this point I had re-ripped the file and it wasn't  in the same directory as my library.  However, what's the point of having an Explorer extension to play files if you can only play files in the media library directory?  I moved this Flac file to the media library directory and was back to seeing no response from MC 1 when I tried to play the file from Windows Explorer. 

I finally ripped the file with MC 11 itself which seems to have worked.

--- information on the problem
I saw a mention of a log file in another thread.  I didn't find it.

I'm using MC 11.161 which is what I got from the update process.  The Flac decoder is v 1.3.0 and the Flac encoder is v. 1.5.  (The last time I looked that's what is listed on the JRiver  plug-ins pages.  I'm aware of the plug-ins developer's site with newer versions but there isn't aanthing specific about stable vs. beta versions.)

--- four complaints

1. MC 11 should never drop a file when importing without providing clear notification to the user.  Having to manually verify that MC 11 actually imported all the files in the directories specified for the library is an unreasonable burden.

2. If the Flac command line encoder builds a Flac file, MC 11 should play it.  If there are problems, somebody should document them and suggest workarounds.

3. If MC 11 has restrictions on file names or the total length of a file's fully qualified path name, you should document them.  Better yet, if Windows allows a name, you should too.

4. I have seen a number of suggestions on this forum that searching the forum as an adequate alternative to vendor written documention.  I've tried to search for a number of topics.  Over 90% of the search results are the endless threads announcing a new version of MC 11.  I've tried to be creative in defining search words but I haven't found the searching the forum archives to be easy or to produce productive of information in most cases.  So, JRiver, write some meaningful documentation beyond a descriptive sentence or two about each menu item.

Bill

[Matt]

MC has no filename length limits outside of standard Windows limits. (260)  It's possible that buggy software (EAC or FLAC command line encoder) is creating files outside of the "safe" limit that's well defined by Windows.

Also, JRiver doesn't control the FLAC support (APE and WMA Lossless are fully supported natively) so FLAC could have other limits.  Scthom (the plugin author) may be able to help you.

There is a full help file and a wealth of information on this forum.  There are also many users (and JRiver employees) willing to help.  You'll get the best results if you have a positive attitude and tone with your posts.

[jgreen]

Count me as one of those users Matt mentioned, Bill.  I'm no audio expert, but I have converted 95% of my library to FLAC and experienced no problems.  Matt is one of the world's foremost experts on digital audio, although he didn't write the FLAC format and has had no direct experience working with the FLAC code or scthom's plugins.  FWIW, Matt wrote the APE format, and I'm sure he's ready and willing to field questions regarding that natively supported format, as well as WMA, which was written by an ape.

For starters, the current best version for the scthom FLAC plugins is 1.6.5 for the input, or decoder, and 1.6.1 for the encoder.  both are available at "mcplugins.sourceforge.net".  I've used both for about a month now and I have not experienced any problems, nor heard of any.  I realize there is no formalized system for notating the latest tested version, and I apologize on behalf of the developer and the host program.   I share your frustration with the current state of the art for FLAC support, but if you're willing to walk a mile or two with the rest of us, the results will be worth it.

So try downloading and installing the latest FLAC plugins.  I believe that will be enought to solve this.  If not, post your questions.  As Matt said, there are many FLAC users here who are happy to help.  Thankfully, most are far more knowledgeable than me.  MC is the most powerful media player on the planet, without doubt.  FLAC is currently an external format, although that may change in the future (fingers crossed). 

[scthom]

Bill,

Also sorry to hear you are having trouble with MC/FLAC.  I know that dozens of uses are using the combination and haven't had the issues you describe (at least, no one has said anything to me).

Please try the updated plugins and see if you still have problems.  Although the versions you have are more-or-less good for most people, they aren't bug free.  They won't really be until JRiver get's through the 11.1 cycle and I have a chance to update their website with the latest plugins.

The reason the latest plugins aren't posted there is because I have no control.  If I were to post a version that had major bugs, there's no way for me to remove it.  It also takes a day or so to get more recent versions to appear.  The mcplugins.sourceforge.net site allows me to post and revise much more easily.  When a pretty stable version is available, I generally try to post it to the JRiver plugin page so that the "average" user can still get it.

If you don't mind, can you post the name of the file, so that I can rename a test file and see what happens?

If these are very short tracks, MC will not import them (check your settings in the Tools->Import menu).  10 seconds is the default.

[Listener]

Thank you all for replying.

The thing that really disturbed me was MC 11 didn't provide a warning that it failed to import some files.  I stated that clearly in the second sentence of my post. I was hoping to get a statement that MC 11 should not do that.  I don't think anybody answered that question.

----
For Scott, I think I understand what was causing the import problem.  The file names all contained semicolons. 

In my F:\newly_ripped_CDs\Gottschalk directory:

Gottschalk - Stars & Stripes, Cakewalk, more - Fiedler_Boston Pops Orchestra - 1993 - 14 - Magic Act-  Introduction of the Magicians; Venus and the Three Graces; The Wild Pony; Pas de deux; Ride-Out (.flac

(I counted 207 characters in the file name + path.)  After I changed ALL the semicolons to commas, the file could be played from Windows Explorer.

In the F:\newly_ripped_CDs\Gershwin directory. the file below did not appear

Gershwin - Porgy And Bess (Highlights) - Leontyne Price, William Warfield, John Bubbles - 1963 - 01 - Introduction; Summertime (01).flac

I changed the semicolon to a comma and it was imported successfully.

Also in the F:\newly_ripped_CDs\Gershwin directory, the

Gershwin - Rhap. in Blue (1) Con. in F (2-4),  Amer (5), Variations(6) - Wild,Earl_Fiedler_Boston Pops Orchestra - 1987 - 03 - Concerto in F- Adagio; Andante con moto (03).flac

was not imported.  This is the file that produced one crash and no the error message I cited in my first post.  Shortened the file name didn't solve the problem.  Just now, I tried changing the semicolon to a comma.  Presto, now when I right click on the file name in Windows Explorer and choose "Play with media Center", MC 11 plays the file.

--- some experiments

I made up files with names a,b.mp3 and a;b.mp3 for MP3, m4a and Flac files.  All the files were valid music files of the type indicated by the file extension and the MP3 and Flac.  The comma and semicolon versions of the files contained the same data.

Importing files:
  Five files were imported: a,b.mp3,  a;b.mp3 , a,b.m4a , a;b.m4a and a,b.flac. 
  The a;b.flac file was NOT imported.

Playing from Windows Explorer:
   MC11 plays a,b.mp3 and a;b.mp3 as expected.
   MC11 plays a,b.flac as expected.  No sound and no message for a;b.flac.

(m4a is associated with iTunes so MC11 is not invoked for an m4a file on my PC.)

Playing using the File/Open Media File command in MC11.
(At this point, the files have not been imported.)
     MC11 plays a,b.mp3 as expected.
     When a;b.mp3 is opened, MC11 plays a different file from my library.

    MC11 plays a,b.m4a as expected.
    When a;b.m4a is opened, MC11 plays a different file from my library.

    MC11 plays a,b.flac and  as expected.
    When a;b.flac is opened, MC11 plays a different file from my library.


 
That last result is quite weird!

--- summary
You have strange behavior in opening media files when the file name contains a semi-colon. (For MP3, Flac and iTunes created m4a files at least)

MC11 won't import Flac files if there is a semi-colon in the file name.  MC11 won't play them when you right click on the file name in Wiindows Explorer and choose Play with Media center either.

Maybe this is a design choice but I did ask about limitations on file names in my first post.

---- install failed for latest Flac decoder
Scott, I downloaded and installed v 1.62 of the input plug-in.  The a;b.flac file is still not imported.

----
Matt, I have gone though the Help many times in the last month looking for information on a number of topics. What I said in my first post was based on trying my best to use available resources over a period of about 6 weeks. 

Bill

[Mike Noe]

Bill,
I've been using the FLAC plugins for a couple of months now and I have not seen these issues you have mentioned, though it appears that you have found an issue related to a semicolon in the FLAC filename.  My library is exclusively APE and FLAC and I have no semicolons in any of the filenames.

FWIW, you asked to have your "questions" answered, but when I re-read your first post, I only saw two questions, the first related to filename sizes (which Matt answered), the second appears to be rhetorical (now, obviously related to the semicolon issue):

However, what's the point of having an Explorer extension to play files if you can only play files in the media library directory?

In your second post, I didn't see one single question.  While you might be frustrated, I think you'll find that if you state your questions directly, without sarcasm or condescension, there are many, very knowledgable and willing folks, ready to respond.

[Matt]

I can't reproduce any strangeness with MP3 filenames with or without semicolons.

I just spun an email off to Scthom about the FLAC + semicolon issue.  I'm sure he'll take care of it.

[Listener]

<clip>
Can I depend on MC 11 to give me an obvious warning when it fails to import files?
<clip>

[edited by Matt -- please stay on the topic of solving the problem -- remarks aimed at a person will be removed]
 

[Listener]

Can I depend on MC 11 to give me an obvious warning when it fails to import files?
<clip>

[edited by Matt -- please stay on the topic of solving the problem -- remarks aimed at a person will be removed]

How about applying the same rule to other posters in this thread?

And do you intend to follow up on my question?

Bill

[JimH]

Bill,
I'll lock this thread now.  I suggest you wait a day or two, and then post a question without throwing rocks.

I thought the other posters in the thread were pretty restrained.