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Author Topic: MC10 and itunes-can they coexist?  (Read 3244 times)

Podder

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MC10 and itunes-can they coexist?
« on: February 15, 2005, 07:06:03 pm »

Ipod & Ipod shuffle.............
I love MC and I use it to manage my IPOD music.  But, I just got my wife an Ipod Shuffle and it only uses itunes (so they say).  Can these 2 music mgmt tools work properly on one computer?  Do I just have to "get out" of one completely before I open the other one?  Is it that simple? 
btw, I operate on WinXP.
Thanks.
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Alex B

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Re: MC10 and itunes-can they coexist?
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2005, 09:14:02 pm »

I would make playlists in MC and duplicate the selected files to a separate folder for iTunes. If the files need to be converted it would be easy to let the converter copy the files.
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Podder

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Re: MC10 and itunes-can they coexist?
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2005, 06:23:26 am »

So (camper) if I turn off the option "let itunes manage my music", then there should be no other problems with MC10 AND itunes being on the same computer?
Thanks Alex-but why would itunes need to convert the playlist song file?  (btw, right now I have all my songs in  a file called "my music" on my hard drive and then I import them to MC10).  Won't MC10 just transfer over as MP3s to itunes.  Then at that point I can drop the songs into the IPOD shuffle?
Thanks,
Rich
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Alex B

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Re: MC10 and itunes-can they coexist?
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2005, 08:16:02 am »

I just meant that if you are used to browsing your library with MC it would be easier to make the selections in MC and make a separate folder on your HD for the iPod suffle.

When starting iTunes it would be just a matter of importing the contents of that folder. Also, the original files would be untouched by iTunes. Just in case...

Since iPod suffle can take at maximum 512 MB or 1 GB of files I assumed that conversions might be needed too, but if your files are already in MP3 format and small enough it's of course better to not transcode.
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coolblue

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Re: MC10 and itunes-can they coexist?
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2005, 09:43:30 am »

I have both installed on my PC with no difficulties.

In order to centrally manage your library, under the Edit->Preferences|Advanced tab make sure "Copy files to iTunes Music folder when adding to library" is UNCHECKED. After that, to add your MP3s use File->Add Folder to Library... and point iTunes to your current library. It automatically reads all subfolders.

iTunes will make 1 or 2 passes at your MP3s, depending on whether you have Sound Check enabled uner Preferences|Audio. On the first pass iTunes will add all your files - you cannot otherwise use iTunes during this pass; if Sound Check is enabled iTunes will then analyze your audio and add a volume adjustment to the MP3's metadata (the audio is not touched).

By default iTunes places its library data in %My Documents%\iTunes\iTunes Music so there are no conflicts with MC's library management.
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Podder

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Re: MC10 and itunes-can they coexist?
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2005, 12:38:16 pm »

Thanks cool blue.  I did uncheck "let itunes manage my library" and I've installed the latest itunes/ipod software CD that came with my IPS (Ipod Shuffle).  Now I want to import some music over to Itunes.  I already have music files in MC10, but if I understand you correctly, in itunes I can just go to File>Add folder to library, and then I can choose to add my whole "my music" file on my hard drive over to Itunes.  Correct?  This would have nothing to do with MC10. (btw,I'm keeping MC10 for my other Ipod 20G). I'm just adding files from my HD to Itunes.  SO in the end I can have all my music in MC10 AND all my music in itunes.  And they can operate completely seperate from one another?

These may be silly questions to some, but these companies speak in very general terms.  (ie, just transfer/export your music on over!).  They leave alot of the details out.  For example in MC>File>Export Playlist - what is this difference btw "HTML","MPL playlist","M3U Playlist","ASC11 Delimited"??  Also, under the file menu (itunes), is "add file to library" the same thing as "import".  Because if you choose "import" it opens up a bunch more questions like what box to check - "text files","XML files", M3U files".  I don't think there is a standard.
Anyways, any assistance would be appreciated.  Not only by cool blue - anyone can chime in.

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coolblue

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Re: MC10 and itunes-can they coexist?
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2005, 01:14:53 pm »

I have my MP3s on an external FW HD. My MC libraries are maintained in %My documents%\mp3 catalogs which resolves to T:\My Work\mp3 catalogs. iTunes libraries are maintained at %My documents%\My Music\iTunes. The MP3s themselves only exist in one place but both MC and iTunes have their own views to them. This has worked for me for over a year.

More importantly than "let iTunes manage my library" is to uncheck "Copy files to iTunes Music folder when adding to library" as I wrote in my last post. This will keep iTunes from duplicating the MP3s as it adds them to the library. This may be desirable under some circumstances, but I can't figure out what those circumcstances would be.

Further, as you add MP3s (either via iTunes or MC) you can simply point the other application to the same folder(s) on disk and it will update its library. Both MC and iTunes are smart enough not to import files already in their respective libraries.

What might be a bit confusing is the concept of "library." It's important, I think, to mentally uncouple the MP3 files on your hard drive(s) from the lists that MC and iTunes build from those files. When you're importing/exporting you're reading/writing the internal lists, not physical MP3 files.

I'm not too familiar with the iTunes Import functions, but they appear to have more to do with reading a text file of some sort that already knows where files are (for instance, an XML file previously exported from iTunes) and would be useful if you're transfering your library to a different computer (and want to keep the extra-MP3 metadata, e.g. play count, last played, etc.) intact. Both MC and iTunes can export their libraries into XML files but they are incompatible with one another.

You can export playlists from MC (as m3u files) and iTunes can Import them, but Smartlists are "flattened" into whatever files they contain at the time of export. (MC and iTunes have completely different, proprietary methods of creating automatic playlists. MC is far more powerful but iTunes does everything that probably 85% of all users need, and have the mental capacity for.)

MC's other playlist export format are interoperability with other MP3 jukeboxes, or for display (the HTML output for instance, could easily be used on a web site). As before, the "smarts" behind smartlists aren't exported; only the song list generated at the time of export.

In summary, in iTunes, uncheck "Let iTunes manage..." and "Copy files to iTunes..." Point iTunes (as per my previous post) to your MP3 files and let it build it's list/library from the same set of files that MC is using. I hope I've done more good than harm (in terms of confusion) with this post but if you have any more questions don't hesitate to shout back.
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hit_ny

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Re: MC10 and itunes-can they coexist?
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2005, 11:26:08 am »

I'm a bit late here.....but why is iTunes required at all ?

Is it because MC cant talk to a shuffle (yet).

If so...when is JRiver likely to do so ?

I feel 2 programs running on the same media collection confusing and feel the chances of user error a bit likely.

Then you enter "Never Never" land as each player says the other one did it.

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JoeDDS

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Re: MC10 and itunes-can they coexist?
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2005, 08:31:13 am »

I am mainly a Mac guy and have most of my CD's ripped in Apple Lossless (via iTunes residing on my G5).  I would like to share this library over my home network with my (one and only) PC.  I plan to install MC11 on this PC and use a plug-in to control a connected Russound CAV6.6 for whole house audio. (It would be great if there was MC for the Mac, but that's another story).  Any suggestions on how best to do this?
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hit_ny

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Re: MC10 and itunes-can they coexist?
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2005, 11:53:42 am »

i think of a way to let the PC see your files on the Mac.

Then on the PC, it a shared drive.

Thing is i dont think MC has a plugin for Apple lossless, so not sure how MC would be able to read them.

Why do you want to use MC, when you have iTunes on a Mac ? Is there something MC does better than iTunes ?
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JoeDDS

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Re: MC10 and itunes-can they coexist?
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2005, 02:04:50 pm »

MC11 can link to my Russound CAV6.6 and be controlled by the zone keypads.  So I can distribute and control the audio feed throughout my home.   That is about the only reason.  There are CAV6.6 plug-ins available with MC11 alone, or with MusicLobby/MC10.  Don't know of a comparable plug-in for iTunes on the Mac or PC.
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Podder

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Re: MC10 and itunes-can they coexist?
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2005, 07:52:04 am »

Just wanted to report back to say that MC & Itunes are doing fine as roommates on my PC.  Both use the same library.  I have an IPOD that uses MC and a shuffle that uses Itunes.  No issues so far.  The one thing I have not done is rip a new CD and have it imported to both MC & itunes.
Thanks :)
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JoeDDS

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Re: MC10 and itunes-can they coexist?
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2005, 11:43:49 am »

MC11 (latest build)  was able to recognize the files in my iTunes Music Folder (located on my Mac over my home network), but failed to import any of them.  Some of the folders had Apple Lossless tracks, which probably wouldn't import anyway, but most were AAC tracks, which should have imported.  Tried it a few times.  What might I be doing wrong (or is this a bug). 
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JimH

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Re: MC10 and itunes-can they coexist?
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2005, 12:27:07 pm »

Check the advanced options in the import.  You may not be importing aac files.  Apple's have a different extension.  M4P?
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JoeDDS

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Re: MC10 and itunes-can they coexist?
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2005, 03:44:09 pm »

Already had the advanced tab opened and selected "All Types Selected" and "Include network and disconnected drives".

The import logs says:  "Failed to analyse/add" after each .m4a file

Of the 1250 files found, none were imported.
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JimH

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Re: MC10 and itunes-can they coexist?
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2005, 05:02:12 pm »

MC uses the Quicktime playback engine to play the files, so it can't analyze them.  If it didn't add them, try a search.  They may be in your library already.
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JoeDDS

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Re: MC10 and itunes-can they coexist?
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2005, 05:21:43 pm »

They are not anywhere in MC's file list in the media library.  None have imported.

I then tested my network by installing iTunes on the PC and accessing the music files over the network using iTunes built-in sharing.  Worked flawlessly.  iTunes on the PC saw and played everything.

Is there a limit to the type of .m4a file that MC can read?  ie. can it not read an Apple .m4a, but can read a Windows .m4a?  I thought that there was not a difference.

I do want to use MC instead of iTunes on the PC so that I can use a Russound CAV6.6 plug-in. 

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JoeDDS

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Re: MC10 and itunes-can they coexist?
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2005, 05:40:50 pm »

SOLVED?   After turning on iTunes music sharing preferences on the Mac, I again tried to import the same music files.  It worked!  Weird, can't think of why this would be.   

Actually plays pretty well over the network.  Now to play with the plug-in!

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davecherry

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Re: MC10 and itunes-can they coexist?
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2005, 02:42:54 pm »

JoeDSS-

I've got a similar situation adn am hoping to use both iTunes and MC.  Wondering if your Apple Lossless files play through MC

-Dave
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