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Author Topic: Switching Between Display AW and Full Screen with G-Force  (Read 4272 times)

glynor

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Switching Between Display AW and Full Screen with G-Force
« on: November 05, 2006, 01:00:32 am »

When using G-Force with the new Display AW system (where you can have a separate choice for the display AW), G-Force gets broken when you enter and then exit Full Screen view.  Previously, it just continued where it left off when you exited Full Screen (Display) View.  Now, when you exit full screen view, it freezes completely and doesn't fix itself until you stop and restart G-Force (by selecting another display option and then re-choosing G-Force.

Not good at all.  G-Force should be seamlessly able to switch between the views like before.

I really preferred it the way it was before, where the Display View and the Display AW always matched (if they wre the same Zone).  Why can't we just have what we asked for, where the Displays match unless you have Track Info chosen (and if so you get Album Art instead in the Display AW)?
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marko

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Re: New Separate Display AW Option and G-Force
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2006, 07:22:30 am »

I'm not seeing that here.
With both set to run gforce, there's no freeze and gforce continues where it left off.

Changing the main display to album art, then double clicking on gforce running in the AW display causes a full screen album art display, and closing this display causes gforce to restart in the AW display.

wonder if it's reliant upon particular gforce option choices?

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Re: New Separate Display AW Option and G-Force
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2006, 07:29:45 am »

Yeah, it's all working here, too.
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glynor

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Re: New Separate Display AW Option and G-Force
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2006, 11:59:36 am »

I'm not seeing that here.
With both set to run gforce, there's no freeze and gforce continues where it left off.

Hmmmm....

My G-Force is set pretty much to the default (except that I have it not auto-launch the toolbar).  I'll have to test it on my other machines.
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glynor

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Re: New Separate Display AW Option and G-Force
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2006, 12:21:16 pm »

I just tested it on my workstation machine and I get the same result, though I did notice one thing different than I did last night (it was like that last night too I was just tired and didn't explain it well).

If I switch from one "display" view to another more than once (regardless of from where or to where), G-Force freezes.  While switching "modes" usually works the first time, it does not continue to work after I change views a second time.  So, for example, if I start playing some music and G-Force comes up in the Display AW, and then I switch to Display View by double clicking on it.  G-Force keeps working correctly.  However, if I then switch back to Standard View (hit Esc or back or whatever), G-Force crashes.  This same type of behavior also includes:

 - switching from Playing Now to browsing (and viewing G-Force in the Display AW)
 - switching from the Display AW to Playing Now
 - switching from the Display AW to Display View
 - switching from Display View to Playing Now
 - switching from Display View to the Display AW

  In all cases, the "display" portion of MC completely crashes and fails to update.  Here's a screenshot from my workstation machine.  MC is currently in Display View mode with G-Force chosen as the Display plugin.  The "inner" MC is a remnant from before I switched into Display View by double clicking on the Display AW (which had itself frozen).


Click here to enlarge.


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marko

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Re: New Separate Display AW Option and G-Force
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2006, 12:29:08 pm »

Quote
So, for example, if I start playing some music and G-Force comes up in the Display AW, and then I switch to Display View by double clicking on it.  G-Force keeps working correctly.  However, if I then switch back to Standard View (hit Esc or back or whatever), G-Force crashes.
That's exactly what I did, and no problems. Tried it with the toolbar disabled too, and still no problems.

Could it be a resolution switching problem? My display view resolution in MC is set to "Desktop resolution" which is 1680 x 1050

glynor

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Re: New Separate Display AW Option and G-Force
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2006, 12:33:30 pm »

I also just tested with:

 - completely uninstalling G-Force (the current version) and reinstalling from scratch.  Same result.

 - rolling back to MC 12.0.103 (just prior to the 13. Changed: Action Window "Display" has independent visualization selection from Standard View. (much like Mini View already works) change).  Same result (so I guess I was wrong that it was related to that change).

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glynor

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Re: New Separate Display AW Option and G-Force
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2006, 12:34:47 pm »

Could it be a resolution switching problem? My display view resolution in MC is set to "Desktop resolution" which is 1680 x 1050

Hmmm... I'll check something, but mine is too (set to "Desktop Resolution").  My desktop is at 1280 x 1024.

I don't think so, because switching from playing with the Display AW visible, to Playing Now (so it never goes full screen) and then back breaks it too.

Something weird is going on though because I just rolled way back to v12.0.93 and it's still happening.  I know it hasn't been happening that long though.  I would have noticed it.
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glynor

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Re: New Separate Display AW Option and G-Force
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2006, 12:42:39 pm »

Completely uninstalling MC and reinstalling it (with a separate library and removing all Registry entries) didn't fix it either.
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glynor

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Re: New Separate Display AW Option and G-Force
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2006, 12:54:32 pm »

I also just found that I'm not having trouble with Detached displays.  They work properly, even when going in and out of Full Screen mode (as long as the display is detached), and when going from Detached back to the Display AW.  As soon as I switch to Playing Now or Display View though, it breaks.
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glynor

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Re: Switching Between Display AW and Full Screen with G-Force
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2006, 08:29:04 am »

No one else is having this issue at all?  I'm seeing it on more than one of my systems, so I'm surprised!
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JimH

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Re: Switching Between Display AW and Full Screen with G-Force
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2006, 08:43:49 am »

I think you know that G-force version numbers don't always change with their update releases.  So it's possible you're not running the same version others are.
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glynor

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Re: Switching Between Display AW and Full Screen with G-Force
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2006, 09:29:07 am »

Yeah I do (which is annoying).  For that reason, when I tried re-installing it above, I also re-downloaded it (even though I was already running the "current release").

I'm going to try it out on my machines at work today, and we'll see what we get.
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glynor

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Re: Switching Between Display AW and Full Screen with G-Force
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2006, 11:17:56 am »

Well... I've done some further testing and found someone else with the issue.

First off... I've tested on two of my work machines, and I haven't been able to reproduce the problem on either of them.  I also imported the JRiver HKCU registry settings from my machine at home (which does have the issue) onto one of the machines here at work, and still wasn't able to reproduce it.

However, I did find this post over at SoundSpectrum.  The author is apparently having the exact same issue using MC11.1!  (Wahoo! It's not just me!)  As I mentioned in my post over there, all four of the machines I've tested on have a similar software load, though somewhat dissimilar hardware.

I'm now going to test updating to .NET 2.0 and the latest ATI Catalyst drivers on my machine here at work with ATI video to see if that breaks it.  Updating my Catalyst versions (and to .NET 2.0 since it's now required for the newest Catalysts) is the only thing I can think of that I've done somewhat recently on both of my home machines.  As I said before, I'm not sure when the issue started, but I think it's been very recently (at least on my HTPC).  I use G-Force all the time, and I would have noticed it earlier.  I first noticed it happening on that machine on Halloween when we had some people over...
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glynor

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Re: Switching Between Display AW and Full Screen with G-Force
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2006, 01:39:42 pm »

.NET 2.0 doesn't appear to be the culprit.  Trying the new Catalyst drivers now...
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glynor

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Re: Switching Between Display AW and Full Screen with G-Force
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2006, 01:48:15 pm »

Found it!!!  Installing Catalyst 6.10 (and probably some older ones too -- I'm pretty sure I have 6.9 installed on one of my two machines at home) caused the problem to show up!

EDIT: More details here:  http://forums.soundspectrum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1577&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

EDIT AGAIN:  The details are on the SoundSpectrum forum posting, but I methodically tracked down the first version of ATI's Catalyst drivers that cause this issue.  Driver versions 6.6 and newer will exhibit this problem, while 6.5 and older do not.

I would guess this is a G-Force problem, and not a JRiver problem, but I'm not sure so I'm posting this both places.
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marko

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Re: Switching Between Display AW and Full Screen with G-Force
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2006, 05:10:33 pm »

I bought an ATI card once. IIRC, it was a 6800 pro (?) anyhoo, I took an instant dislike to it, and it's drivers and punted it on at a loss two days later and went back to an nvidia card. I bought an FX9500 Pro and it's what I'm still using today.
Touch wood, I've never had any problems with it to date. I'm sure it's the same for nvidia cards, but despite the fact that everyone raves about ATI, I get the impression, false or otherwise, that really, they're a pain in the ass to maintain, a lot like early soundblaster cards, great bits of kit, if you can keep 'em running...

Glad you got it nailed glynor, those marathon trouble-shooting sessions can really mince your brain, huh?
I've got one here atm, a Hewlett Packard machine, that *I think* is suffering from a bit of processor creep. It just shuts down, then refuses to start untill I give the heatsink a little jiggle. Once I've coaxed it back to factory settings, I'll dismantle it, put it back together, and if that hasn't cured it, it's getting handed back as a bad job.

glynor

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Re: Switching Between Display AW and Full Screen with G-Force
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2006, 06:19:55 pm »

I'll forget for a minute that ATI never made anything called a 6800 Pro (or anything even close to that), and that nVidia hasn't yet released their newfangled 8800 GTX (and is nowhere near anything called a 9500)... Sorry, couldn't resist.   ;)  (I'm sure you meant an nVidia 5900 and I'm not sure where you were going with the ATI, but maybe a 8500?)

EDIT: Actually, maybe you meant an ATI 9500 and an nVidia 6800 which are real cards.  Comparing those two cards would certainly lean in nVidia's direction though, as they are from completely different classes of cards!  The 6800 was a top-of-the-line nVidia card which debuted for $450.  The 9500 was based on the old 8500 core and was targetted at low-mid range and debuted at around $150-$200 if I remember correctly (the 9500 was also a terrible and rushed GPU which was swiftly replaced by the 9600 which was pretty good).

To some degree the decision between ATI and nVidia is a personal choice issue.  I find exactly the opposite of what you found in your (admittedly cursory) flirtation with ATI.

I find nVidia's drivers horribly buggy and annoying to use (and I do currently own a 7800 GTX so this is based on experience).  ATI's are really no huge joy either, but at least I don't have to remember a huge list of "ands, ifs, and buts" about what works and what doesn't.  nVidia's cards are very good for certain applications (OpenGL for example), and their drivers are good enough if all you want to do is set it up like a typical PC with one or two monitors.  Otherwise, I personally find ATI's Catalyst drivers vastly superior.  I also really appreciate their release cycle (a new driver set every month, clearly named).  nVidia releases new drivers when they feel like it, and more often than not, the performance goes backwards not forwards.

The only reason I bring this up at all, is a lot of the commentary I see about the issue (people complaining about ATI's driver quality) is based on experience they had in the Radeon 7000 and 8000 series era many years ago (2001 and 2002).  I'm the first to admit it!  ATI's drivers then were horrible.  They were buggy, they crashed, features didn't work, they had quality issues, and on and on... But, it's important to give credit where credit is due!  They responded to the overwhelming criticism of the poor quality with the Catalyst driver program, with a vow to fix the issues, and to release new versions once per month, and to support them well.  And they did.

I'd say basically the exact opposite story about nVidia.  They've basically been heading downhill driver wise since the nForce2 era.  Their nForce4 chipset is still plagued with driver issues, their GPU chipset drivers have terrible image quality problems (what nVidia called Anti-Aliasing and what ATI calls Anti-Aliasing are not the same thing at all, and nVidia has quality problems in many current games which make running the cards at their full potential unworkable), and they seem to turn off features in new drivers more often than they introduce new ones (nForce LAN acceleration anyone?).

I think the problem really comes down to one of resting on your laurels.  Back in 2002, everyone laughed at nVidia's hardware (the 5x series GeForce cards got creamed by ATI's 9700 in basically every performance category) but praised their drivers.  I think that was mainly because they were searching for something to praise about an otherwise failed product, but still, compared to what ATI was offering at the time, anything was good.  nVidia set about fixing their hardware problems (which they've certainly done), but at the expense of ignoring their drivers.

Again... The decision is certainly personal.  Some people just don't like the way ATI's software is set up!  Some people (me) also just don't like the way nVidia's is.

I would dispute the "great bits of kit, if you can keep 'em running..." part of your statement.  My ATI cards have been, for the most part, completely trouble free.  I've had equal or greater problems with my nVidia cards over time (and in at least a few cases, there was never a solution to the nVidia problems -- like the horrible flickering when entering and exiting full screen mode on my 7800 GTX).
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marko

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Re: Switching Between Display AW and Full Screen with G-Force
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2006, 08:51:05 pm »

:) This silly celeron is doing my nut in!!

I've got an fx 5900 XT right now, and I can't remember the ATI card. It wasn't cutting edge, was back ~2003, cost me ~£200 and I didn't like it. I was sure it was a 6800-something, ? maybe it was 8600-something? I don't know, we didn't get on, that's all I remember and I punted it rather quickly for £150 and went back to nvidia.

I built this PC back in 2002, and have been 'tinkering' away with it ever since...

It still does away, the info's just a little out of date now as the SB's been up'ed to an X-Fi Platinum, I've had fun with it and learned a shedload along the way, but you know, as I turn my attention towards a new PC, I'm not so sure I want to get into all that research and review reading stuff again. I'm thinking along the lines of, if I can't find someone I trust to make out the shopping list for me, I'll probably end up buying one off the shelf... dunno yet, undecided... prolly got till next summer to wait anyway...

I think the board's fecked on this HP. I've taken it apart, cleaned it up, put it back together again. It boots. I'm happy. It needs to be put back to factory settings (what the guy wants prior to flogging it on) so, I set that in motion. It's either freezing, or turning itself off, part way through the "copying files" stage. after which, it won't restart untill the the boards been flexed a little by way of a little pressure on the RAM stick.

It's not heat. Might be the HDD, but I don't think so. I give up coz it's not that important anymore. He brought it to me because it was 'dead'. I've manged to get all his personal data off the drive and onto DVD, so the job's not been a total loss, just the thing'll still be dead when he gets it back.

Magic_Randy

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Re: Switching Between Display AW and Full Screen with G-Force
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2006, 03:54:40 pm »

Why can't we just have what we asked for, where the Displays match unless you have Track Info chosen (and if so you get Album Art instead in the Display AW)?

I don't want to stir anything up,

And for sure I don't want to go backwards,

But - it would be nice to have the displays match except when using Track Info.
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glynor

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Re: Switching Between Display AW and Full Screen with G-Force
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2006, 04:33:54 pm »

While I completely agree Randy, it turned out that in this case the issue was not with MC at all (or at least, if so, it's much older than this change).  Andy and the crew at SoundSpectrum are working on fixing the ATI Catalyst 6.6+ and G-Force issue.
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