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[pcstockton]

It seems that some here use MP3tag effectively.  But I am curious if I can do similar things within MC.

My goals:
#1 - Tag ONLY those files in my Library that have "unassigned" Genres.
#2 - I would like to do this automagically, e.g. with MP3tag or something similar.
#3 - I would like ALL other tags to remain exactly as they are.

Does anyone (Rick) have a suggestion how I can achieve my goals above?

Thanks,
Patrick

[rick.ca]

I recommend deciding what it is you're looking for, before looking for a technique to get it.

Genre, if used according to it's conventional meaning, will include a relatively short list of values like Pop/Rock, Jazz, R&B, Classical, etc. No method of getting these values automatically is going to be more efficient than simply assigning the value manually. Styles are a quite a different matter (again, according to conventional meaning). Most artists can be associated with a number of different styles, as might any one song. Styles can cross genres. It's not the sort of thing everyone is likely to agree on. To make matters worse, many people and online data sources seem to mix Genres and Styles and call it "Genre." The result is, understandably, inconsistent.

My choice has been to rely on Allmusic as a reasonably consistent and (I hope) authoritative source for determining Genre and Style. I actually use Allmusic styles to decide (if I haven't already) the one arbitrary "style" I'll assign to an artist. I use [Style] as a single value field to, for example, break my "Rock" genre down into 11 styles (or what some would call "sub-genres"). As logical as they may seem, I try to remember my style categories are largely arbitrary, and most artists could be in more than one.

I've recently added Allmusic styles to [Keywords] and organized them as a nested list. That's very interesting, but I still rely on [Genre]\[Style] as the primary means for navigating my collection.

[pcstockton]

Thanks Rick.  My method would be not unlike yours.  I neglected to mention that I read your other threads about Styles and Genres and your method to the madness.

If I was able to auto-populate "Style", I would also use a very limited number of genres.  But currently i have no Styles, which results in needing hundreds of Genres.

Do you use an automated method of populating the "Style" field?
I wouldn't mind using the defaults in AllMusic.
Can I use MP3Tag to only populate the "Style" tag?
Lastly, is "Style" unique to MC, or is it a standard ID3 tag?

Thanks again Rick!
Patrick

[rick.ca]

Do you use an automated method of populating the "Style" field?

No. As I explained, I use my own set of single value styles. You can see examples in the screen shot—in the "Genre\Style" panel.

I wouldn't mind using the defaults in AllMusic. Can I use MP3Tag to only populate the "Style" tag?

No. Allmusic assigns multiple styles. MC's [Style] is a string field, like [Genre]. That's why I save them in [Keywords] (or I could have create a custom list field [Styles]). Allmovies styles appear to be assigned to artists, rather than albums or tracks, so it's not that much work to cut & paste them to a list field. And once you've got them, of course, you only need to get them for new artists.

Lastly, is "Style" unique to MC, or is it a standard ID3 tag?

I'm sure the term is not unique to MC, but, AFAIK, it's not a standard ID3 tag either. And even if there is some agreement as to how something called a "style" should be saved in a file tag, I'm pretty sure there are no standards for the determination of the values themselves.

[pcstockton]

Rick,

Gotcha.  I am picking up what you're putting down.

I am not sure i am into cutting and pasting styles into hundreds of artist's "Keywords" in MC. 

But maybe I am into selectively inserting a single "Style" into that field for Artists who really need further differentiation.

Given that, I have come up with a little bigger pool of Genres than you, or certainly more than Allmusic.  But I have I culled many from the list of "Official" Genres from ID3.

All of my Albums will fit into one of these categories with one Style possibly added on those begging for more clarification:

Avant-garde
Experimental
Modern Composer
Rap
Hip-Hop
Avant-Hip-Hop
Trip-Hop
Metal
Avant-Metal
Heavy Metal
Death Metal
Rock 
Post-Rock
Avant-Rock
Classic Rock  
Progressive Rock
New Wave-80s
Psychadelic
Shoegaze
Disco
Funk 
Punk
Post-Punk 
Hardcore
Post-Hardcore
Japanese Hardcore
Ska
Oi
Reggae
Dub
Rock Steady
African
Jungle 
Dubstep
Jazz
Ragtime
Big Band
Vocal Jazz    
Fusion
Acid Jazz
Electronica 
Ambient
Techno-Industrial
House
Noise
Dance
Gothic
Classical
Blues 
Country 
Pop
R&B
Soul
Soundtrack
Oldies
Comedy 
Gospel
Other

[rick.ca]

What works as a classification system depends on how you relate to your collection. So if you see a specific subset as unique and significant, then it makes sense to identify it as such. You might call it a genre, style or something else. So there's no one right system—it's a very personal thing. But there are some general principles worth considering when designing a classification system...

• If each item is to be assigned to one and only one category (i.e., how the provided [Genre] field is normally used, since it's not a list field), then it should be clear (at least to the primary user) which category any item belongs to.
  
  
• Most people can easily handle any classification system with 10 - 20 categories. A system using 50 - 60 categories takes considerable effort to learn and use consistently.
  
  
• Using [Genre] in the conventional way (i.e., a high-level classification: Classical, Pop/Rock, Jazz, R&B, etc.) provides the means to restrict listening and/or browsing to one of these categories. I'm not comfortable, for example, mixing Classical and Rock music. [Genre] provides a one-click way of selecting one or the other.
  
  
• Multiple categories can be assigned using a list field for Styles. This eliminates the ambiguity around which category an item belongs to by assigning it to every category to which it reasonably fits. The categories can also be nested (i.e., categorizing the categories) so they're easier to find. More importantly, selecting a "master category" finds all the members of the "sub-categories" (e.g., selecting "Metal" would also find "Metal\Avant-Metal"). That makes it much more difficult to "lose" items in the classification system.

[pcstockton]

I definitely agree with your 4th point Rick.

I will most likely whittle many of the above genres out IF i start using "Style" or a keyword string.

But for me, to have The Cure and Meshuggah in the same "Genre" undermines the point of having Genres at all.  I will either need to dial my entire collection with "Style" or keep a larger number or Genres.

Using 10-20 would not be possible for me given the wide variety of music I listen to.

If you notice in my above list I only have 3-4 Rock genres, one Classical, one Jazz.  These REALLY need more classification with Style. 

It is just a massive undertaking that I dont think I want to tackle right now.

I am concentrating on getting everything into one of the ~60 genres above, and assigning the 400 albums that currently have nothing in the Genre tag.

Back when I first started ripping I think EAC gave you about 10 options.  Often I would simply leave it blank it the AMG or FreeDB search that EAC uses failed to return something.  So a ton of my rips have nothing at all.  I have never used or cared about Genres until my recent love affair with Radio play.

Once I have finished that I will entertain further dorking on my library.

Thanks for the pointers Rick.

Cheers,
Patrick