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[pcstockton]

I have posted about this previously but cannot find my original post....

Issue: Cover Art on PlugPlayer (both iPad and iPhone) is extremely pixilated/low resolution despite the album art file resolution.

I have done a bunch of research with PlugPlayer.  Insodoing I have confirmed that PlugPlayer does NOT rescale images nor build the album thumbnails, or album art in the "Playing Now"-type screen.

With the exact same files and a different UPNP server, PlugPlayer is displaying very crisp album art in what appears to be their native resolution.

I have brought this up a couple of times to the PlugPlayer developer and they have stated that the UPNP Server is fully in control of how it sends the album art. 

I cannot find any setting implicitly for this.  Of course I have all transcoding/image resizing turned off in DNLA setting in MC.  No matter what the settings are in MC, the art is horrible. 

With the ability to easily browse my entire library, and easily create playlists, PlugPlayer is indispensable for me.

Is there any way that "those in the know" can figure out why MC is re-scaling album art?

Thanks in advance.
Patrick

[Matt]

Double-check your setting in:
Options > Media Network > DLNA Server > [Select the server you're using] > Advanced > Present Small Artwork

[pcstockton]

Thanks Matt!

I am excited to try as soon as I get home.

Are you saying this setting might be "selected"?  If I "deselect" it will send native resolution?

Thanks again for the awesome player, and STELLAR support.

Three cheers...
Patrick

[bob]

Thanks Matt!

I am excited to try as soon as I get home.

Are you saying this setting might be "selected"?  If I "deselect" it will send native resolution?

Thanks again for the awesome player, and STELLAR support.

Three cheers...
Patrick

With it unselected it will send a large thumb instead of the universally supported 120x120 image. There is a limit to how large the artwork can be for most DLNA renderers since they have to buffer up and resize images to fit on their screens.
Oversized artwork can cause other problems unrelated to DLNA. For example, I have a car mp3 player that chokes on audio files with embeded cover art that's too large (by it's own standards). Considering the artwork can't be displayed anyway, it's pretty dumb but unfortunately not uncommon.

[pcstockton]

Unfortunately it was already ticked off.

Any other ideas?  Are you limiting the size on your end in some way?

thanks!
Patrick

[pcstockton]

Just for fun I changed to "Small Art" then back.  Just wanted to see if this would help anything.

According to PlugPlayer (and UPNP/DLNA), the server is responsible for whatever happens with the album art.  The Control Point only displays what it is presented with.

I am guessing this also has something to do with MC not sending along its playlist to the control point?  Not sure.

Can someone please check into what is going on with either?

Thanks!
Patrick

[bob]

Just for fun I changed to "Small Art" then back.  Just wanted to see if this would help anything.

According to PlugPlayer (and UPNP/DLNA), the server is responsible for whatever happens with the album art.  The Control Point only displays what it is presented with.

I am guessing this also has something to do with MC not sending along its playlist to the control point?  Not sure.

Can someone please check into what is going on with either?

Thanks!
Patrick

It's using a large thumb, I think it's 400x400. Looks great on my touch....

[pcstockton]

Thanks Bob.

400 x 400 look should ok on the iPad.  A fair amount of my art is 300x300 and it displays crisply in "Playing Now"
But art is heavily pixilated on the PlugPlayer.

I dont have a 3G anymore to try, but it looks fairly lo-res on the iPhone 4 as well.

Would there be any way to bump this up a little?  Maybe make it more user configurable?

Or there might be something strange going on, and MC isn't actually sending 400x400???

Any thoughts?  I will take a screenshot of both for your reference when I get home.

[bob]

Thanks Bob.

400 x 400 look should ok on the iPad.  A fair amount of my art is 300x300 and it displays crisply in "Playing Now"
But art is heavily pixilated on the PlugPlayer.

I dont have a 3G anymore to try, but it looks fairly lo-res on the iPhone 4 as well.

Would there be any way to bump this up a little?  Maybe make it more user configurable?

Or there might be something strange going on, and MC isn't actually sending 400x400???

Any thoughts?  I will take a screenshot of both for your reference when I get home.

Pretty weird...

I'm wondering if the profile is corrupt. You could try removing the profile then re-adding it making sure the present small artwork switch is off.
Another thing to try is to turn file logging on for the DLNA server (in advanced options). Then check the status screen, when the cover art is requested you'll see the URL. Put that same URL into a browser and see what you get back...

[pcstockton]

Thanks Bob.  I am on the case.

I have been SLAMMED at work these last few days so haven't had the occasion to snap some screenshots (nor listen to music  ).

I will get into tonight.

take care,
Patrick

[pcstockton]

Bob,

I tried deleting the profile and re-adding it.  That did not change anything.

I enabled logging but I cannot for the life of me find the "status screen" to find the URL you mention.

I tried various sized arts last night.  Everything looks as it should in MC.  PlugPlayer still getting a downscaled lo-res picture.

thanks,
patrick

[bob]

Bob,

I tried deleting the profile and re-adding it.  That did not change anything.

I enabled logging but I cannot for the life of me find the "status screen" to find the URL you mention.

I tried various sized arts last night.  Everything looks as it should in MC.  PlugPlayer still getting a downscaled lo-res picture.

thanks,
patrick

Hi Patrick,
The status shows up if you select Services & Plugins -> Media Network
from the tree. If you've set "show file requests" from the "Advanced Options" for your DLNA server, you'll then see that logged in the summary screen. You can cut out some of the chatter if you select your specific server to display status for under DLNA servers on that status screen. The idea is to watch for the artwork URL requested then try it in a browser.

Thanks,
Bob

[pcstockton]

Thanks again Bob for all of the help.

I will check it out tonight when I get home from Valentine's dinner.  A listening sesh and dorking around in MC settings should go over well.....

-Patrick

[monsieurguzel]

I would also love it if there was an option to resize cover art to something bigger than 120x120 since it looks super pixelated on the ipod.  Some of my art is 1600X1600 unfortunately (so it needs to be resized), but I'd love to have an option of 400x400.

[pcstockton]

Bob,
OK.... it appears that everything comes back as 400 x 400 when I view the URL from logging, regardless of original art size.

This comes across pretty badly on both iPad and iPhone4.

I am not sure what Monsieurguzel is referring to on the 120x120.

The most bizarre thing though is..... If I view the same album art with the Apple Remote App, the art is crisp.  I took screen shots of both which I should be able to email or post here.

Is there any chance that MC is lowering the resolution or file size in some fashion beyond just pixel size?

Thanks!
Patrick

[bob]

Bob,
OK.... it appears that everything comes back as 400 x 400 when I view the URL from logging, regardless of original art size.

This comes across pretty badly on both iPad and iPhone4.

I am not sure what Monsieurguzel is referring to on the 120x120.

The most bizarre thing though is..... If I view the same album art with the Apple Remote App, the art is crisp.  I took screen shots of both which I should be able to email or post here.

Is there any chance that MC is lowering the resolution or file size in some fashion beyond just pixel size?

Thanks!
Patrick

Hi Patrick,
400x400 is what I expect you'd see for all cover art if the "present small artwork" switch is off. (monsieurguzel, make sure that switch is off and you'll get 400x400).
400x400 looks great on my touch (1g). The iphone4 has a screen resolution of 640x960 so 400x400 still should look good on it (plug player gives up about half of the screen real estate when display a pic in playing now). Can you see the difference when the "present small artwork" swtich is on, vs when it's off? That ought to be really obvious...

[pcstockton]

Bob,

Thanks.

I will check out what "small Artwork" looks like right away.

Last night I found an album.jpg in my collection that was already 400x400.  In Windows (Photo Viewer) it looks crisp.  On the Remote App in both iPad and iPhone4 it looks good.  I imported it into my iPad Photo viewer and it looks good.  Only in PlugPlayer is it the most pixilated??

Ill be back in touch.

Does my question about resolution vs pixel size make sense?  I always thought you could have a 400 x 400 that is 34k and one that is 560K.  One just has a higher resolution?

Thanks again,
Patrick

[monsieurguzel]

Oh, so even if my folder.jpg and embedded art might be 900x900, it will still present them as 400x400 when streaming to a DLNA server (with small artwork optino turned off)?  If so, that would be great that it automatically reduces the image size.

[bob]

Oh, so even if my folder.jpg and embedded art might be 900x900, it will still present them as 400x400 when streaming to a DLNA server (with small artwork option turned off)?  If so, that would be great that it automatically reduces the image size.

Yes, that is the way MC works.

[bob]

Bob,

Thanks.

I will check out what "small Artwork" looks like right away.

Last night I found an album.jpg in my collection that was already 400x400.  In Windows (Photo Viewer) it looks crisp.  On the Remote App in both iPad and iPhone4 it looks good.  I imported it into my iPad Photo viewer and it looks good.  Only in PlugPlayer is it the most pixilated??

Ill be back in touch.

Does my question about resolution vs pixel size make sense?  I always thought you could have a 400 x 400 that is 34k and one that is 560K.  One just has a higher resolution?

Thanks again,
Patrick

A 400x400 image could generate a different file size if the file was compressed more or less if it's a jpeg but it's still 400x400. I don't think even at low quality (high compression) settings you'd  get pixelation as a side effect. Also, we use a pretty high quality for the thumbs so I don't think that'd be the trouble.

[pcstockton]

Bob,

How can the poor image be explained then?  It looks good when I view in Explorer, iPad and iPhone4.  It looks crisp in iTunes Remote App.

It is only when served up by MC that Plugplayer looks pixilated.
any thoughts?

Can we increase the 400x400 limit?

Thanks!
Patrick

[bob]

After messing with it, I think I've figured it out. PP is caching the image somewhere. When I reduced my 400x400 to "present small artwork", it still displayed the 400x400 image and DIDN'T request a new image file! I deleted and re-added the server in PP's device screen, no joy. I restarted PP, no joy. I went into settings->PP options and turned off playlist artwork (whatever that is) and joy, I got a low-res image. Went back into MC, checked off the small artwork switch and replayed the same tune, cool large image.

Since we ALWAYS generate artwork, even if it's just a blank folder, whatever "playlist artwork" is, it seems unnecessary.

[pcstockton]

AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!! I will try asap.

Thanks for the tireless efforts.

[pcstockton]

"Playlist artwork" shows a tiny thumbnail in playlists.

I turned it off and dont see any change in resolution.

I did not delete and add any servers though.  Do you think I need to try that?

Thanks
Patrick

[bob]

Let's see if we are talking about the same thing. Here are a couple of screenshots from a touch of the large thumbnail vs the small 120x120 cover art. Is this what you are seeing??

[pcstockton]

Bob,

Thanks again for the help.

Yes I am seeing that.

Unfortunately, "Large Art" is no different than it was before.... pixilated.

This is compared to the SAME art shown on Remote App or just viewed as a pic in "Photos".

-Patrick

[bob]

Bob,

Thanks again for the help.

Yes I am seeing that.

Unfortunately, "Large Art" is no different than it was before.... pixilated.

This is compared to the SAME art shown on Remote App or just viewed as a pic in "Photos".

-Patrick

Sorry this is so difficult, I just want to make sure... Your cover art looks like the lower image in my post on a touch. If you grab the URL listed in the status screen in Media Network from MC in a browser, it looks like the TOP image in my post?

If you try to view art from a different file that couldn't have been cached already, it looks like the LOWER pic in my post?

I'm trying to verify that you are actually seeing 120x120, not just that you don't like 400x400.

Thanks..

[pcstockton]

Bob,

No need to apologize at all!  Thank you so much for looking into this.

OK, I worked all the various options and got screen shots of everything.

Using a 400x400 "folder.jpg" found in the source file folder, "Playlist Art" turned off:

PlugPlayer (PP) - Small Art on iPhone:



PlugPlayer (PP) - Large Art on iPhone:


PlugPlayer (PP) - Small Art on iPad:



PlugPlayer (PP) - Large Art on iPad:


Folder.jpg synced to iPhone viewed in "Photos"
Folder.jpg synced to iPad viewed in "Photos"
Folder.jpg (original file)



The last three were identical so I only posted one.  It isn't huge but you can see a difference between the original folder.jpg and the 2 Large Art pics.

Lastly, i did notice that the Art in "Playing Now" (Standard View) corresponds exactly with what I am seeing in PlugPlayer.  Meaning, the art in Playing Now looks worse than simply viewing the folder.jpg in MC-Photos.  And it changes from worse to really bad if I turn on "Small Art" in Network Settings.

This is strange.... why would the Media Network art settings effect how the album art is displayed in MC itself?

Thanks!!
Patrick

[pcstockton]

Bob,

Also.... grabbing the URL in the Log retrieves a picture that matches what i see on the iPad... i.e. it is lower resolution than the native 400x400 file.

The file being shown by MC and being sent by MC are somehow staying at 400x400 size but are being lowered in resolution in some fashion.

Even stranger though is that the

thanks,
patrick

[bob]

Bob,

Also.... grabbing the URL in the Log retrieves a picture that matches what i see on the iPad... i.e. it is lower resolution than the native 400x400 file.

The file being shown by MC and being sent by MC are somehow staying at 400x400 size but are being lowered in resolution in some fashion.
thanks,
patrick

Ok thanks for sending those images. From what you've provided, I think we can conclude that the correct thumbnail is being sent to the iDevice (400x400) since that looks much better than the "small artwork" (120x120).
Now the thumbs are created when MC scans the artwork provided with your music. In my case, all of my artwork is in the file tags, in your case, in folder.jpg. When the different thumbs are created, they are made into jpegs from the original with a certain quality setting, the process is not lossless, there will be some (very small) degradation of quality in the thumbs from the original artwork even if the original was 400x400. This appears to me to be what you are noticing. If you update a folder.jpg, I don't think a new thumb will get built automatically, you may have to do one of those "update library from tags" operations.
I've been considering adding multiple resolution choices for the cover art images to the content directory. Some devices can handle this (they pick the best image to display based on screen size, etc) and others can't. There are some side issues to deal with and I can't say it's at the top of the priority list but I think it could be useful.

[pcstockton]

Bob,

Thanks again for looking into this.  I imagine more and more people will be using iDevices (and Androids) to control MC either through Webremote, PlugPlayer and other Apps.  (Maybe it is time to add an in-house developed iOS App to supplement the Remote you sell?)  It seems that the current art arrangement doesn't look as good as art on other "Remote" Apps.

If you thought to increase the resolution that would be great.  It simply looks bad on the iPad.  I think on the iPhone/Touch, the screens is so small you is harder to notice the degradation.

Curious.... why does this affect the resolution of the art in "Playing Now"?  Shouldn't this be only a Network issue?  Or is this simply a manifestation of how MC handles album art in general? 

Thanks again Bob.  BEST MEDIA PLAYER EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-Patrick