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[AoXoMoXoA]

i trust my ears more than science, to ignore that, is just stupid.

Trusting your ears is like trusting your eyes.

Ever experience an optical illusion?  It is your brain filtering the results, a ruler can prove it.

[glynor]

I've been attacked by a squirrel.

I've never actually been attacked by a squirrel, though I have had them throw stuff (nuts and whatnot) at me when I was hiking.  Little buggers are territorial.

I have actually seen a squirrel smoking a cigarette, though.  I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes.  Squirrels (more than one) in a park near Cleveland Ohio would eat cigarette butts off of the ground from people smoking in the park (thankfully, people don't seem to litter them as much anymore).  If they found one still lit and smoldering, though, they would actually smoke it for a bit before eating it.

I sat in the park for a while with my Aunt (who told me about it beforehand) and watched them.  It was happening.  I couldn't believe it.

[DarkPenguin]

i still hold to my guns, wav sounds better. if FLAC decompression before sent to memory is not a feature to be added, then i will have to use WAV at the cost of hard drive space.
there is perfect sense in these requests, and there are audible difference on my computer and hifi. my equipment is very sensitive and so are my ears. CPU activity, does have impact. i trust my ears more than science, to ignore that, is just stupid.
The effects are subtle, but enough for me.

Fair enough.  But how are you doing your tests?

[Blaine78]

Trusting your ears is like trusting your eyes.

Ever experience an optical illusion?  It is your brain filtering the results, a ruler can prove it.

Well then you could say, the optical illusion is FLAC, and the ruler is WAV. you still need comparative proof what you see/hear.

[Blaine78]

to those asking me to do a test, (this is a copy from my post in another forum)


I did a test with 2 bit identical audio tracks. one in .WAV the other in .FLAC converted with dBpoweramp.
The 2 file are labelled the same, put into JRiver playlist and turned on repeat function, so that I can press next track and will continuously repeat between the 2 files.
to make it random I'd hold down the 'next track' key and it'll quickly toggle between the 2 tracks and releasing the key would randomly pick one track.
with my eyes closed, and finger on the keyboard, I was ready to start my test listen. I would listen to one track then single click to next track to get the comparison. and then after the comparison between the 2, would random them and do the comparison again. 9 times out of 10 I correctly picked the .wav and .flac files. The difference was slight to more obvious, with listening fatigue setting in it became less obvious. .WAV having a tad more detail and quicker attacks, kicks and bass note changes became a little more obvious. FLAC seemed just a little bit veiled and not as dynamic.

[MrHaugen]

So, you're saying that you heard differences in almost all other aspects than noise due to flack decompression? What do we need pre decoding for then?

[Blaine78]

So, you're saying that you heard differences in almost all other aspects than noise due to flack decompression? What do we need pre decoding for then?

noise can affect many aspects of audio- focus, timing, imaging etc. it doesn't have to be noise that you hear, if it is noise. the only factor between WAV and FLAC is the real time, on the fly decompression. other than that, the files are bit identical.
This will not be noticed to majority of people. Audio is my hobby and life, so even tiny differences to me are obvious to me than others would care to hear.
I'm not a crazy audiophile, I don't spend hundreds and thousands on cabling. i do spend money where it counts, well made DAC, AMP, Speakers. I own ATC amp and ATC speakers, they are renowned in mastering studios, mixing studios, concert halls etc. They are pro, rather than jewellery. I originally bought my setup for writing music and mastering. They give much insight into what's in an audio mix. So these slight variations become more prevalent when listening to music for few minutes or so. Quick A/B listen is very hard to discern between, it's only after a few minutes i notice.
This is not a finding, noticed this a couple years back, and still to this day do the tests, and find same findings, hoping I wouldn't so i can save some hard drive space.
I'm not lying, pretending, or whatever. I'm sharing findings and making suggestions.

[JimH]

To summarize,
Some people believe that the sound produced from a WAV file is different than that produced from a Flac file.

Others think that's impossible.  I'm in this camp.  So is Matt.  Probably most people who understand how a computer works would agree.  At least that's what I think.

So now I'm going to lock this thread.  If you feel the need to post again on this subject, please don't.