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[jantypas]

This has probably been asked hundreds of times, but I'm looking for something very small, and preferably quiet, to run the MC software.   Easy?   Not so fast....

Yes, laptops work, but this sits in an entertainment rack and may not have a full-time screen.   It does two things:

1. It runs the MC software for normal purposes and interacts with the android apps etc.
2. It is the house "radio station", just playing a very large library of files to its digital out or, to Rogue Amoeba's Airfoil to talk to a series of airports.

I know MC has DLNA playto, but that's great for single files or playlists, but when your playlist has 52,000 entries, most DLNA devices explode.  I want to just put MC on random play and let it go.

First off,am I making this too hard?   Is there an easy way to do this?
Second, if not, is there any reason I can't use something like one of the new Atom-based Zotacs and just run MC on that (audio only)?

[MrC]

Use Play Doctor?

[FastKayak]

Check the hardware forum.  A number of us have purchased the ASRock Vision 3d.  This is basically a laptop put into a 8 x 8 x 3 black box. It has 4gb ram and the version I have has a quad core Intel i3 processor.  This is plenty of power to run anything MC can come up with.  As I write this post it is playing a APE file to one zone and is 3-4% busy. 

FastKayak / Larry

[MrHaugen]

I'll throw my vote at the ASRock machines. Quiet, Powerful and Functional. I use min for 1080P video, Music and what ever.
I have the 3D Vision version, but if you're only going to play music, there are probably much cheaper versions too.

[csimon]

I can't see any reason why one of those Zotacs couldn't capably handle file serving to DLNA and playing audio, even a NAS unit can do this! I've been looking at one myself. I would say that the ASRock 3D Vision is way over the top for this purpose.

[MrHaugen]

DLNA is of little to no use with huge amounts of media. Like the thread starter here has.

ASRock 3D vision is a bit overkill for some, but as I mentioned, there are lower end models.

If you think DLNA is enough, you can manage with that.  You can use a PS3 and Xbox for that purpose, and many new TV's have it built in as well.

[MrC]

DLNA is of little to no use with huge amounts of media. Like the thread starter here has.

While it certainly has significant weaknesses, is this statement really accurate?  Is there some design flaw that prevents MC from initiating and randomizing playback? (Hence why I hinted at Play Doctor to send chunks of random 100 tracks at a time to a DLNA renderer).

[MrHaugen]

I just think that browsing with DLNA is sometimes painfully slow (the very few I've tested at least). The navigation is often very awkward, and very dependent on the manufacturer. You're very dependent on some custom views, so it all makes sense to you. But the latter is also the case with Theater View of course. I'm kind of allergic to DLNA, and would not use it for anything else than Android systems. But that might just be me.

[csimon]

Media players generally are very clunky with regard to menu levels and scrolling through long menus with up and down arrows on remote controls...and so is MC Theater View, as you rightly say.

That's why a lot of us are excited about handheld touch remotes as they dispense with up-and-down arrows and you just point to what you want, like a mouse but with even more directness and immediacy.

Even Theater View, via the Splashtop remote desktop on an iPad, is completely transformed.

DLNA is not the issue.  This sort of protocol (client/server) is actually the future, I believe.  The issue is devices that are designed for the user interface paradigm that was so last decade.

That's why I got a bit het-up over the HTPC debate!

Many people do want HTPC, yes, I understand that, but J River seems steadfastly stuck in the notion that there will be a PC running MC connected to TV and you'll control it with a remote.

Even XBMC has the ability to use a MySQL database on a NAS unit that XBMC clients can connect to, whereas J River still has some issues with its library sharing facilities.

J River does indeed probably already have the most advanced DLNA facilities of any other software, but lets drive it forward even more!  The DLNA limitations you mention are easily overcome by something like Gizmo or a DLNA control point, although we're still looking for the ideal one I think.

[MrHaugen]

XBMC might have SQL database, but I have to say that we have something better. We have a customized database specifically for our need. I do not think things would have gotten any more responsive if MC used SQL. Would it be nice to have a "server" component on a NAS and get the info directly to all clients, yes. But I do not think this is the thing we need the most. Most of the users have a computer they can turn on when they watch media. I do not think there is much "issues" with the library server today, but there is certainly a few things missing.

I have way to little experience with DLNA to say anything for sure. I've just tested PS3 a bit and used Gizmo some times. I'm sure it will be much better in the future, and perhaps the chosen way of using media for many users. But I have a feeling that the producers of consoles, TV's and such, is far behind yet. I think the systems often is slow. Perhaps because of processing power on the devices or bad coding or immature DLNA features, or the controls? The UI is often very bad. Dependent on the manufacturer and the time spent on it of course. A touch approach to this makes it immediately better, as we see with Gizmo and things like remote to Theater view, using Touch screen or using Tremote on a client. Even though most of this is not using DLNA as I know of.

[csimon]

XBMC might have SQL database, but I have to say that we have something better. We have a customized database specifically for our need. I do not think things would have gotten any more responsive if MC used SQL. Would it be nice to have a "server" component on a NAS and get the info directly to all clients, yes. But I do not think this is the thing we need the most. Most of the users have a computer they can turn on when they watch media. I do not think there is much "issues" with the library server today, but there is certainly a few things missing.

There are indeed quite a few posts on the forums about trouble synchronising clients with the library server, watched tags not updating, adding items into the library from the client, tagging from the client etc.

I have way to little experience with DLNA to say anything for sure. I've just tested PS3 a bit and used Gizmo some times. I'm sure it will be much better in the future, and perhaps the chosen way of using media for many users. But I have a feeling that the producers of consoles, TV's and such, is far behind yet. I think the systems often is slow. Perhaps because of processing power on the devices or bad coding or immature DLNA features, or the controls? The UI is often very bad. Dependent on the manufacturer and the time spent on it of course.

Yep, I completely agree!

But look at the J River ID. I don't know if this will ever surface again but this was going in the right direction, but it seems they've had problems with it and are not sure if it's going to come back.  Again, it's the manufacturer's fault, nothing really to do with DLNA itself.  Small device like this, for audio only or audio and video, that can just run as a slave would be perfect.  We already have the WD TV Live which is the nearest thing to this ideal but that too is not perfect and suffers usability issues.  The uPnP protocol allows for a control point to have a user interface "projected" onto it via a server (remote user interface, I think it's called).  In other words, you could have a touch interface or a 10ft interface provided by J River and use it on whatever media player you want, your PS3, your XBox, your BD player, your connected TV, so you're not dependant on the manufacturer of the particular media box you've chosen.  The technology is there but no-one's pushing it forward.  Catch 22.

A touch approach to this makes it immediately better, as we see with Gizmo and things like remote to Theater view, using Touch screen or using Tremote on a client. Even though most of this is not using DLNA as I know of.

The user interface is not DLNA, no, the things you mention are remote controls to MC.  But you can certainly choose a DLNA device as a renderer (zone), that's what I'm doing.  Best of both worlds!  User interface provided by J River and bypass the media player's own interface!  But Theater View does need an overhaul for touch screens and Gizmo needs improvement as it won't do everything that the client will do I believe.  J River won't support iOS so there is nothing for iDevice owners, althought there is now a third party app called My River which has even been requested to be ported to Android because it's already better than Gizmo!  And of course there are DLNA control points such as PlugPlayer.

[MrHaugen]

There are indeed quite a few posts on the forums about trouble synchronising clients with the library server, watched tags not updating, adding items into the library from the client, tagging from the client etc.

There's always posts about everything, but that does not prove it's not working. Most of the things you mention is working. The beauty and problem of MC, is the complexity. This is where most of the posts and "problems" arises. I've posted things I thought was not working by self, but it was my own faulty setup that was the real problem. There is limitations, sure. And in my opinion there is some important things like access control and more granular syncing to different types of clients and so on. But library sync works for the most parts today. People just have to know what they need to do on the server. This is mainly related to images today. Cover art and so on. I'm sure there will be some improvements here later, once we get a good system to support more art types.

When it comes to DNLA devices as a renderer and control playback from MC, that is certainly an option which I also will be using more soon. But it's something that most normal users will have a hard time adapting to I'm afraid.