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[pcstockton]

Team,

I am posting this for my best friend who is a new owner of MC17.  I have not steered him in the direction of this forum (yet), as I can typically suss out any issues, and in so doing i can lighten the load of all of the helpers here.

This one has me stumped though.

The issue he is running into, and I have witnessed this, is that he often gets two songs playing at the same time.  This is something I have never heard in my setup (XP>ASIO>Juli@).

A little history... he is using a Vista laptop, MC17.91, Wasapi-Event Style to a MF VDAC2 connected via USB.  He doesn't have any other Zones set up, nor does he have any other renderers in the house, other than maybe PlugPlayer on his iPhone.  This has happened with WASAPI and Direct Sound.

It occurs when he is playing something and then makes a new selection.  The second track starts playing over the top of the first track.  It also only seems to occur when the "Overview" Zone is visible.  (As an aside, I have NEVER seen this "Overview" zone pop up in my MC.  I dont know what initiates it.)

Every time he has two songs playing concurrently, that Overview is on the screen. 

But it the issue is tough to repeat.  It doesn't happen every time he changes the track.

The only consistent element is the "Overview".

The first time he called me complaining about this I had him take a picture of the screen.  When I saw the "Overview" I thought to myself, "what the heck is that".  He shut down MC and restarted and it was gone, as was the double playback.

Now it seems to pop up randomly and allows playback of two songs at the same time rather than switching to the new track.

Any thoughts on this?  It is very strange.

Help?

Thanks in advance,
Patrick

[pcstockton]

i forgot to mention that this was happening before he had the MF VDAC2 as well.  Then he was simply using the headphone jack to RCAs into his preamp.

-p

[pcstockton]

i went over tonight when it happened again.  I opened the Overview and it shows two "Zones" I guess you would call them.  One is "Player" as his only (main) zone is named.
The other is named "Images" and shows the album he chose that started playing at the same time as "Player".

This is the only place I see another zone.  Anywhere, everywhere else in MC he only has one zone set up.  Whenever this "Overview" magically and unexpectedly pops up, everything goes to poop.  PLayback is glitchy and distorted, and only shutting down BOTH MC and the Server fixes it.

I told him to keep a keen eye out for when, what and how this "overview" thing pops up, as it jacks up everything.  It disables internal volume and sounds like crap.

I hope we can figure this out.  After 2 weeks of audio nirvana he is talking about going back to itunes which simply wont work anymore now that he is flac-tacular.

He just dropped about $1000 on gear and it is worse than ever and I cant help him.  I actually have a key to his house now so I can go over and diagnose whenever needed.

Serious help needed.  I cant figure this overview issue out!

Thanks is advance everyone.  Fingers crossed,
Patrick

[JimH]

I think he's just played a list that has images and audio mixed.  See what's playing in the "Images" zone when it happens.  The file isn't an image.

That shouldn't affect audio playback though.

Bad file is my guess.

You might be able to find it by viewing all files, a segment at a time (Artists, A to H, and Artists I to Z, for example).  Try playing each half.

Or look for flac files in the Image category. 

[pcstockton]

Thanks Jim.

- Firstly, he has no images on his computer other than the folder.jpgs found in each album folder.  No different than my setup. 
- Image Support is turned off in settings.
- He has no embedded art in any files (checked and rechecked with BOTH mp3 tag and tag&rename)
- His only zone is called "Player"

When I went over last night we had music playing from "John Zorn - Dreamers" and all was fine.  Then I scrolled and clicked on the first track of "The Who - Tommy".  Overview pops up and both tracks are playing at the same time.  When I go into overview it shows two zones:

"Images" - which shows The Who tracks
"Player" - which shows the John Zorn tracks

If I go back into the player and press stop, all music stops.  Maybe I should mention that the ONLY things showing up in the zone tree is "Overview" and "Player".  Only when you go into Overview is this mysterious "Image" zone visible.  If you dont single click on "Player" before selecting another track, it repopulates this "Image" playlist (only seen in overview) but the sound is horrible.  Scratchy, gliltchy and basically unlistenable.

If you then stop music and click on "Player", things sound good again.  But at some point, randomly, a future track change will result in double playback and the same problems above.  Once again this is ONLY when Overview is on the screen.

I even tried to "Link the Zones" (just to see what happens) but MC says more than one zone must be setup for this to work.

The only fix for this is to shut down BOTH MC and MC Server.  Stopping one or the other wont make Overview disappear.  But then at a seemingly random time Overview will pop up.

Although he only has MC17 installed, just to be safe I have ensured that the check-box for "Allow multiple instances of MC to run at the same time" is ticked OFF.


What is this Overview and why do I never see it on my MC?
How is it possible that two songs can play at the same time?
Why does this Overview come and go on his computer?
How does it show another zone when none are set up, but only in Overview?

I have never had any problems like this with MC, not even close.  I am totally at a loss.

Help please?
Patrick

[JimH]

Check the tag called "Media Sub Type".  Set it to Audio for all audio files.  Some files may have it set to "Image".  I don't know why.

[pcstockton]

thanks Jim.

All files are audio.  And this happens with any random album, not just one.  It is not a localized issue with any particular album or track.

Can you speak to why this overview is popping up on his MC but not mine?  Also why it would create a zone called "Images" but only show it in the Overview and not the Main Tree?

Just out of curiosity I downloaded a jpg to the desktop and tried to open it in MC.  MC said that it is "not a supported file format, check settings etc...".  I would expect this since I have image support turned off in settings.

Help?  Something else is going on here.

Even if he did use MC for images, which he is not, why would opening an image create a Zone?
And even if it did, why would that allow for two audio files to playback at the same time?

Any more thoughts?  Double playback is really strange.  Also strange that playing from that "Image" zone within Overview results in horrible replay.  Scratchy, glitchy, distorted.  Like a speaker cable with bad soldering or something.

Help??

Patrick

[CountryBumkin]

Out of curiosity I checked my system for this behavior (and I'm not having this issue) but I don't have anything in the field "media sub type". Only "audio" in the media type for each music file.

Your best bet may have him do a full reinstall. Sometimes installation quirks just can't be figured out.

[pcstockton]

thanks bumpkin,

I actually misread above.  I didn't check media subtype.  But I am guessing they are all blank.  I will check right away.

I thought media subtype was only for videos.

But that doesn't address almost every question I have posted above.  Does everyone else see this Overview thing?  When I first saw it in a screenshot he sent me I wondered what the heck it was, and instantly knew it was the culprit.

Can you disable Overview?

Thanks guys!
Patrick

[pcstockton]

all media = audio
all media subtype are blank

I opened up PlugPlayer when I stopped by after work tonight.  Overview popped up AND PlugPlayer showed up in the Zone Tree.  When I went into overview this time I only see "PP" and "Player"
 and everything is working correctly.  The PP shows up as a zone and works correctly as it should.

I shutdown PP on my iPhone and sure enough it disappeared instantly from Zone Tree along with Overview.  Everything was fine from there.  Until I changed the track a few times and BOOM, Overview with "Images" zone.

It is only this mysterious "Image" zone that causes issues.  Once it shows up I cant get music to play from "Player" unless it was playing before Overview popped up.  And if it was playing prior, that is what creates concurrent playback.  

The ONLY cure once it shows its ugly head is shutting down MC and Server then restarting.

I even tried to turn off all file associations but I dont even see any for image because Image Support is off.  I am just trying anything... there aren't even images in the "Image" Zone list.

He can roll back to MC16 with his MC17 license right?

I am totally lost and he cant listen to music anymore and is bummed

Fingers crossed for an explanation or path to music,
Patrick

[JimH]

Try an uninstall, removing registry entries, reboot, and reinstall.

[glynor]

I am totally lost and he cant listen to music anymore and is bummed

Understandably.

Let me think (and re-read the thread above)...  What zones does it show in the Overview screen?  (Nevermind, I read better, I'd skimmed before.)

[glynor]

Even if he did use MC for images, which he is not, why would opening an image create a Zone?

MC can play both Images and Music at the same time.  It is a nice Slideshow effect.  It is easy to use.  If you start playing some music, and then while it is playing, you "play" a view full of pictures, it keeps the music going and shows the images in a nice slideshow automatically.  The way it does this "behind the scenes" is that if playback is active, and you play a view full of image files, it auto-creates this special Images zone and plays the files there.

The Images Zone is a special zone that is only auto-created like this, so it doesn't show up in the normal Zone definition section.  It is "destroyed" when you stop the image playback.

This is what is happening to him.  When you play that second set of files, MC thinks it is playing some pictures, and creates the Images zone and sends playback there.  The playback is distorted because the zone isn't set up right (they are supposed to be photos, after all).

The Overview screen is accessed under Playing Now in the tree (where your Zones are listed, if you have any, and you can select from the different Playing Now lists).  It shows the playlists for all of your active zones at once (it is handy).  It doesn't "pop up" on it's own in any circumstance I see, unless you select it in the Tree.

One thing that is confusing is how is he playing these files?  What you are saying seems to be contradictory.  You say it "only happens when the Overview screen is showing".  But if the Overview screen is showing, how is he browsing through his files and choosing something to play?  Now, if what you mean is that "when this happens, the music overlaps, is distorted, and the Overview screen appears suddenly" then it kinda makes sense that the Overview screen might appear.  MC is horribly confused.  It tried to play some pictures fullscreen but they were music files (again, they are supposed to be photos), so it freaks out and shows the Overview playing now screen because it doesn't know what else to do but crash.

As far as why this is happening, I'm not sure....

Can you describe his View that he is using to play these files?  You mentioned the folder.jpgs.  Maybe he is somehow playing those files, and not the audio files themselves?  I don't know, I'm guessing.  Tell me how the view is constructed (what categories it uses, what it looks like, and what filters it has), and how he is managing to both be on the Overview screen and selecting files for playback at the same time.

[glynor]

I'm wondering if your setup for him went something like this:

He already had all of his music organized into folders and whatnot, but it wasn't all tagged very well.  So, you set up a view that browses by directory structure instead of by tags, because that's what he's used to.  But, somehow his view isn't just showing audio files (check the filters), it is also "showing" those image files on disk (the folder.jpg cover art files).  It also sounds like you are playing whole albums at a time when this happens, maybe with the view set up so that it doesn't even show the individual songs.  Is that true?  If you navigate down to the file level in the view, what does it show?

Now the Images zone should only engage (I think) if you "play" a set of only image files.  If it is a mixed view, I don't think it should do that.  But it might be related?

What happens if you use a regular, stock view to play the files?  If you need to, you can make a new library, load that, import the files, and try using the stock views (even if the tags are all messed up, just suffer through for testing).  If they work, then something is probably wrong with his view that you're using to play the files.

If you do have one of those "use the directory structure" views kicking it (or something else similarly weird), you should just fix the tags.  It isn't that hard if he has a rigid directory structure.  Just use the Fill Properties from Filename tool.  It is easy.

Also, what do you have set for these options:

Options -> General -> Behavior -> Double-click
Options -> General -> Behavior -> Jump on Play (audio)
Options -> General -> Behavior -> Jump on Play (video)
Options -> General -> Behavior -> Play Button

And, if you have Images disabled under Options -> General -> Features, turn them back on so you can see what is going on (otherwise it might hide them from views where they're really there, or the Library thinks they're there, or something crazy).  Leave that turned on until you get it figured out.  In fact, there's no reason to turn it off.  You can just delete the views under Images and ignore the root view (I think it comes back on it's own if you delete it, but I could be wrong there).  It doesn't hurt to have it turned on, and turning that stuff off is unsupported mostly and can be flaky.

[pcstockton]

Thanks again guys.  i (we) really appreciate the help.

Firstly, I will do as Jim suggests above with a full re-install.

Regarding Glynor's posts..... Your explanation of this "Image" Zone is making sense.  The question is why does MC think they are Images??

I should clarify that when I say the Overview "pops up" i mean it shows up in the tree where it wasn't before.  I didn't mean it gets selected and is focused in the screen.

He is playing the files by either double click or right click play options.  Standard methods.  He also uses JRemote.

He is using stock Artist View straight out of the box.  Nothing special.  Everything is tagged perfectly, cleanly and thoroughly. 

I will check out the double click activity tomorrow if the reinstall doesn't solve things.  Also I will restore image support.

basically he is doing everything just as I do at home and I have never seen this issue, nor even the Overview (i dont have any other zones). 

Of course in audio view you dont see the folder.jpgs.  But if I "Locate in Media Center" of course I see everything, e.g. log, cue, folder.jpg, the tracks etc...  Same as my build at home.


So if I understand things correctly, something is making MC think that the new files are images.  The really weird thing is that once it does this I cant get it to stop.  I cant unselect playback from "Images".  Clicking on the "Player" arrow in the Tree does not turn it green.  Once Images has a hold of playback it wont let go until i restart BOTH MC and Server.

I told him to shut down PP and JRemote before he gets home tonight, and not to open either up for any reason.  Lets see if Overview/Image Zone pops up again.

I will head over tomorrow and reinstall.

I have a strange feeling PP is doing something even when he isn't using it, but it is "running" in his "dock" on his iPhone.  Although I asked him if PP ever showed up as a Zone and he said no.  And I have been there personally and not seen anything.  Ive seen it when he was gone and I didn't have PP running.  maybe vista is doing something dumb.

In any event, I REALLY appreciate the help Glynor and Jim.  I really do.  Best program and best support EVER!

Cheers!
Patrick

[glynor]

Plug Player can't keep running very long on an iOS device if it isn't the foreground application and it isn't doing anything.  Only certain very limited classes of applications can do that at all on iOS, and even then, only the part of the code that does the thing they need to keep doing is given background permissions, and they have to act through the API.  Otherwise, once you hit the home button and close an app, they have around one minute or less to finish what they're doing and save their state, and then they're forcibly closed (or "frozen" with no CPU resources available at all).

It isn't very likely that Plug Player would fall under any of those background exemptions.  They might want it to, so that it could "receive" content.  But to keep the interface open and to keep their "listener" running, they'd have to be continually actually "playing" something.  So they can't.  Some shady apps have tried to play silence when they are backgrounded to allow themselves to keep running, but Apple catches them and kicks them out of the App Store.

If you're super-paranoid, you can kill it with the jiggly-mode minuses in the multitasking menu.  But that doesn't "close" apps really (like I said, the OS already does that).  It just resets their saved-state data and forcibly closes any of the lingering remaining threads that are allowed to use the background APIs.  And those exceptions are very limited and controlled (to preserve resources for the system itself, and battery life).

[glynor]

I should clarify that when I say the Overview "pops up" i mean it shows up in the tree where it wasn't before.  I didn't mean it gets selected and is focused in the screen.

Okay, that explains it.  I always have more than one Zone, so I didn't know the Overview didn't show unless there was more than one Zone configured.  Makes sense.

So, when this happens, he has a second zone, so Overview appears.  I think that once this happens, you have to consider MC to be basically crashed.  It is doing something it is completely unprepared for, and just manages to hang on, but stuff might be wildly broken and mixed-up after that point.  You have to stop it from happening in the first place.  Don't worry about behavior once it happens, just shut it down and try again.

I think your plan sounds good.  Definitely turn Image support back on, and look at the files in the Library carefully.  Make sure there are no stacks or other weirdness.  Make sure the file names are right, and point to the right files.  Make sure the [Media Type] tags aren't weird in some way.

If necessary, make a new Library, restore the defaults, and re-import the files.  Try it there (this should be easy since you're using the default views).

And, yes, keep Plug Player and JRemote and any other "funky" connection out of the loop for now, until you solve the basic problem.  Are you playing from a server or a client machine?  Does this happen on the server too?  If possible, even take that out of the equation.  Reproduce it and fix it using the simplest configuration possible.  If you can't, then it tells you that it is something to do with the configuration itself that is broken (which could be a bug in MC, but not a common one).

[pcstockton]

Thanks again for the help Glynor.

I will chime back in either way once i've reinstalled.

Regarding tagging, everything is money.  I took care of this personally.  Media types are correct.  Everything is "Audio".  ALL media subtypes are blank.

There is no "server" per se.  He has one laptop hard-wired to his router and connected to his hifi via USB>MF VDAC2.

One question for you, what are "stacks"?

Thanks!
Patrick

[pcstockton]

Update:

Ok, in an effort to try to find out what is causing this I have not reinstalled yet.

So far Overview, and consequently double playback, is not happening.

One thing i noticed...  Somehow files associations for images were set to MC so a double click on a picture tried to open it in MC but it couldn't open it because I had Image support off.

I turned image support on and turned off all file associations. 

So far so good.  No mysterious Image Zone yet.

I am having him now go back to using PP and JRemote as he was previously to see if we are good to go or not.

More to come.....

Thx,
Patrick

[glynor]

Keep me updated.  I'm curious.  This is a weird one.

[pcstockton]

Thanks for checking in Glynor.  I just did the same myself.

I actually just now returned from visiting his house and talking with him about replay over the last few days.  Although no news is typically good news, I figured I would stop by and play around and have a listen.

Other than an annoying ground loop that was causing some very low level noise (turned out to be his TV on the same Mains circuit), all is well.  I couldn't make the Image View pop up and I threw everything at it I could imagine.  Two plugplayers, another laptop with MC running, a bunch of zones showing up, Overview populating as it should.  Everything behaving normally.

I can only think it was the file association ON + Image support OFF.  Not sure if other configurations of this would result in a similar problem and honestly I am hesitant to mess with anything now that it is working properly.

FYI, I never did reinstall, unless updating would be considered re-installing.

Thanks again for helping me out you two.

Cheers!
patrick