Topic: Visusalizations Stuttering again (Read 3884 times)

tofer · « **on:** November 09, 2003, 03:52:28 pm »

The "stuttering" that was in an old build of MC is now back again.

When playing a song and viewing the 3d visualizations, there is a noticable pause every few seconds.

Also, is there any way to make MC compatible with Winamp visualizations. Other players have done it, and most are written by a third party anyway, so why not MC? As the quality of Winamp visualizations continues to improve, they become an even more compelling featue. It is the only reason I have Winamp on my machine at all...

Squanderbug · « **Reply #1 on:** November 11, 2003, 08:51:50 am »

I noticed this stuttering as well, but found that it only occured whilst I was connected to the net. Once disconnected the stuttering stopped.

LisaRCT · « **Reply #2 on:** November 11, 2003, 03:38:29 pm »

Quote from: Squanderbug on November 11, 2003, 08:51:50 am

I noticed this stuttering as well, but found that it only occured whilst I was connected to the net. Once disconnected the stuttering stopped.

Interesting, but not a good solution if you wish to enjoy internet radio. $:-\$

livingdead · « **Reply #3 on:** November 12, 2003, 08:54:45 am »

Just wanted to chime in that I have this problem as well. While it may be true that this only occurs when connected to the internet, my cable modem is "always on" so this doesn't help me much.

I would also like to point out that the studdering effects most of the application. For example, mouse over/hover effects, menus, and scrolling will all pause when the visualization does and is very anoying (music plays fine though). I thought this was problem with the whole program until I read this post and turned off the visualization. Now the MC9 is alot more pleasant to use (I was about to give up on it).

Also, on my machine at least, it doesn't seem to matter which visualization it is, even the simplest ones on the slowest settings will do it. Processor utilization is only at 2-4% for the program so I don't think it's a horsepower issue.

One more thing, I had been having trouble with MC locking up intermitently during burns (maybe 1/3 time), this too seems to have cleared up since turning off the visual.

JimH · « **Reply #4 on:** November 12, 2003, 09:39:03 am »

Try updating your video drivers or at least reinstalling them.

Try updating Windows (IE/Tools/Windows Update).

MGD_King · « **Reply #5 on:** November 12, 2003, 10:05:02 am »

Quote from: JimH on November 12, 2003, 09:39:03 am

Try updating Windows (IE/Tools/Windows Update).

Jim,

When this was an issue in previous builds, I noticed that it didn't happen until I updated Windows. The visualizations have been working fine up till now, and I don't want to update if this is an issue until it's worked out.

JimH · « **Reply #6 on:** November 12, 2003, 10:09:15 am »

This is almost certainly not an issue with Media Center. It is most likely to be in the driver or OS area.

Have you updated your video driver?

MGD_King · « **Reply #7 on:** November 12, 2003, 11:32:39 am »

Jim, forgive me if I'm wrong, but why would the version of the video driver matter if the visualizations worked perfectly until this build? Was something changed in the visualizations and I missed it somewhere?

For the record, I'm using nVidia's latest drivers, however, I'm hesitant about updating (still on build 289) if it's an issue.

jleerigby · « **Reply #8 on:** November 12, 2003, 11:54:28 am »

I really think something has happened to MC in this area sometime in the last 10 builds or so. I have several custom visualisations that scroll lyrics up the screen with a spectrum analyser at the bottom. I use the highest quality setting so the text looks clear. Recently (sometime since build 290 I think) I've noticed that the spectrum analyser is much slower and the lyrics scroll up the screen more slowly. Nothing has changed on my PC in that time - only new builds of MC.

The 3D visualisations are so slow they are unusable but I haven't tried these much so can't say whether they were ever any faster. My system spec is below but I'll add that I'm using an ATI 9600 Pro with Catalyst 3.7 drivers on a Panasonic 42" Plasma monitor.

Media Center Registered 9.1.300 -- C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center\

Microsoft Windows XP Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 1 (Build 2600)
AMD Athlon 2147 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 1572 MB, Free - 1179 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2800.1106 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82 (xpsp1.020828-1920) / Shlwapi.dll: 6.00.2800.1226 / Shell32.dll: 6.00.2800.1233 (xpsp2.030604-1804) / wnaspi32.dll: N/A
Ripping / Drive E: Copy mode:Normal CD Type:Auto Read speed:Max
Drive F: Copy mode:Normal CD Type:Auto Read speed:Max
Digital playback: Yes / Use YADB: Yes / Get cover art: No / Calc replay gain: No / Copy volume: 32767
Eject after ripping: Yes / Play sound after ripping: Yes Soundfile: C:\WINDOWS\Media\notify.wav

Burning / Drive E: LITE-ON LTR-52246S Addr: 1:0:0 Speed:48 MaxSpeed:52 BurnProof:Yes
Test mode: No / Eject after writing: Yes / Direct decoding: Yes / Write CD-Text: Yes
Use playback settings: No / Normalization: None

JimH · « **Reply #9 on:** November 12, 2003, 12:09:42 pm »

JLee,
Have you also updated Windows recently?

JimH · « **Reply #10 on:** November 12, 2003, 12:11:54 pm »

Quote from: MGD_King on November 12, 2003, 11:32:39 am

Jim, forgive me if I'm wrong, but why would the version of the video driver matter if the visualizations worked perfectly until this build? Was something changed in the visualizations and I missed it somewhere?

For the record, I'm using nVidia's latest drivers, however, I'm hesitant about updating (still on build 289) if it's an issue.

Visualizations stress video cards. Drivers have bugs. Try a google search to see if you can find something.

There are lots of possible problems, but you said that MC was working, then you updated Windows, then it didn't work.

jleerigby · « **Reply #11 on:** November 12, 2003, 12:51:17 pm »

Quote from: JimH on November 12, 2003, 12:09:42 pm

JLee,
Have you also updated Windows recently?

No WU was last run on 16/10 (I checked system restore as windows creates a restore point when you run WU). I would have been on build 280 back then.

Checking restore points is also a good way of checking what changes have been made to my machine as I always take a restore point before loading software or drivers. The only other change recently was the install of Powerstrip 2 days ago. That's not the culprit as the reason I loaded it was to see if it speeded things up. Alas it didn't so I uninstalled it and restored back.

jleerigby · « **Reply #12 on:** November 12, 2003, 01:08:33 pm »

Ok, I got some hard evidence:

Just played a track using build 302 and timed how long from track start to the last line of the lyrics to scroll up the screen - 19.58 secs (did it several times and each time it was around 20 secs).

Then I rolled back to build 282 and repeated the exact same test (same file, same visual etc) - 12.31 secs.

What changed?

MGD_King · « **Reply #13 on:** November 12, 2003, 03:12:37 pm »

Quote from: JimH on November 12, 2003, 12:11:54 pm

Visualizations stress video cards. Drivers have bugs. Try a google search to see if you can find something.

There are lots of possible problems, but you said that MC was working, then you updated Windows, then it didn't work.

Jim, what I said was that I noticed it several builds ago after I had updated Windows. At build 262, I did the following as a request in this thread by going into Tools/Options/Device Settings and set all "Action to perform..." choices to "Nothing" and uncheck "Ask every time". It solved my problem then and has worked fine since. I'm hoping that it doesn't come back. I'll download build 302 tonight when I get home from work and try it.

jleerigby · « **Reply #14 on:** November 12, 2003, 03:43:24 pm »

I've narrowed it down to one of the builds 283-288 inclusive. I only have 282 (quick) & 288 (slow). I think it would be really helpful if someone else could repeat the test I did (above) just to confirm it's not a quirk in my system. Here's the visualisation I used for the test.

Here's the build history from 283-288.

Quote

9.1.283 History
1. Fixed: Installer crash hopefully fixed. (please let us know)

9.1.284 History
1. Fixed: Installer crash hopefully fixed. (please let us know)

9.1.285 History
1. Fixed: Media Center was registering itself after loading product.
2. Fixed: MJ 8 library upgrade was not working properly in all cases. (restore from backup in "MC\Data\Upgrade Backup")
3. Fixed: Tab order in Install Wizard was not correct for all pages.
4. Fixed: Installer would report "IE too old" on non-US locales.
5. Fixed: Right-most list control header could fail to draw completely in some cases.
6. Fixed: Seeking in DVD's wasn't working correctly.
7. Fixed: With rating as the first column, clicking in a thumbnail view could change the rating.
8. Fixed: Changing / removing image files could be slow with large libraries.

9.1.286 History
1. Fixed: When importing from directories MC normally excludes, MC could ask over and over for confirmation.
2. Fixed: First Install Wizard page had incorrect tab order.

9.1.287 History
1. Changed: Playback display menu restructured to be more concise.
2. Changed: Updated "Configure Display..." dialog -- added resolution selection and removed obsolete "enlarge menus".
3. Changed: Updated Action Window tools menu to be more logical.
4. Changed: Option dialog makes all pages start from the top. (instead of centering vertically)
5. NEW: Added "Image Playback..." and "DVD Playback..." setting pages to Options -> Playback.
6. Fixed: Duplicate removal would remove first items instead of tail items.
7. Fixed: AAC Bitrate and Duration info.
8. Changed: Updated MJP installer system to XML based system. (still works with old MJP scripts)
9. Fixed: Shell extensions "Play" wouldn't replace playing now when starting MC. (it shouldn't replace if MC is already running)

9.1.288 History
1. Fixed: List controls wouldn't always use the proper background color for the non-item dead area in short lists.
2. Changed: Tuned BPM calculator to be less likely to half the BPM of songs with BPM over 140.
3. Fixed: When changing selections in the panes, sometimes the file list wouldn't be scrolled to the top.
4. Fixed: While analyzing audio, several things in the main interface wouldn't work properly. (typing in searches, mouse wheel, etc.)
5. Fixed: Installation of plugins did't work.

jleerigby · « **Reply #15 on:** November 14, 2003, 07:34:24 am »

Bump.

Any comments from JRiver? Any ideas what could have changed to slow down graphics?

DougHamm · « **Reply #16 on:** November 14, 2003, 09:35:39 am »

I have a custom viz with scrolling lyrics, a spectrum analyzer, and high-res cover art overlayed. Looks very nice. However at the highest quality, at 1024x768, it's a slideshow (~12fps). I finally narrowed it down: the only component that drags performance down is the only one that doesn't _do_ anything: the cover art! Removing it from the viz triples the frame rate. I can only surmise that the static cover art is being redrawn with each frame, and in an inefficient manner. Dropping quality down to High solves the problem but reduces the quality of the fonts and the cover art.

Covers are scanned at 200dpi, making them ~800x800.

I'm not sure which build, if any, would have slowed things down - as I only recently bumped my resolution up from 800x600 to 1024x768 (it's on a TV). At 800x600 framerates are fine.

-Doug

Dubster · « **Reply #17 on:** November 14, 2003, 09:49:16 am »

I get the stuttering too, but worse, sometimes MC crashes and pretty much takes the whole machine with it. Is it a video driver problem? Probably. Is MC totally blameless? Probably not.

I recently installed an nForce2 motherboard and everything is as up to date as I can make it. If other people on other hardware are having problems, then the main common point is MC9.

Tom

jleerigby · « **Reply #18 on:** November 14, 2003, 04:35:02 pm »

Quote

I finally narrowed it down: the only component that drags performance down is the only one that doesn't do anything: the cover art!

I removed cover art from the vis I used for my test and repeated the test. Result was the same 19.5 seconds compared to 12 seconds with build 282. Both tests were conducted in an otherwise identical environment (OS, drivers, hardware etc).

Jim, your previous comments were:

Quote

Try updating your video drivers or at least reinstalling them.

Try updating Windows (IE/Tools/Windows Update).

Quote

This is almost certainly not an issue with Media Center. It is most likely to be in the driver or OS area.

Quote

Visualizations stress video cards. Drivers have bugs.

All fair comment in the circumstances. So I jumped in and spent time trying to help by isolating the problem. When I come up with what seems to be some useful information all goes quiet from you guys.

I think this is a really important issue. In a HTPC environment though MC is a fantastic program it's a real let down if the visualisations look crap. People who see it don't see all the power and great features, they just see dodgy stuttering visuals that only perform if you turn down the quality - and this causes the lyrics to look like a child's written them.

I really hope this gets some attention. If there's anymore tests you want me to do I'll be happy to but I can no longer install 282 as a message says 'Failed to load product info'.

fex · « **Reply #19 on:** November 14, 2003, 05:17:53 pm »

No problems here.

Quote

Media Center Registered 9.1.304 -- C:\Programme\Media Center\

Microsoft Windows XP Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 1 (Build 2600)
Intel Pentium 4 1999 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 523 MB, Free - 204 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2800.1106 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82 (xpsp1.020828-1920) / Shlwapi.dll: 6.00.2800.1106 (xpsp1.020828-1920) / Shell32.dll: 6.00.2800.1233 (xpsp2.030604-1804) / wnaspi32.dll: 4.60 (1021) , ASPI for Win32 (95/NT) DLL, Copyright © 1989-1999 Adaptec, Inc. / Aspi32.sys: 4.60 (1021)

Ripping / Drive F: Copy mode:Normal CD Type:Auto Read speed:Max
Drive G: Copy mode:Normal CD Type:Auto Read speed:Max
Digital playback: Yes / Use YADB: Yes / Get cover art: No / Calc replay gain: Yes / Copy volume: 32767
Eject after ripping: Yes / Play sound after ripping: No

Burning / Drive G: YAMAHA CRW-F1E Addr: 1:0:0 Speed:10 MaxSpeed:44 BurnProof:Yes
Test mode: No / Eject after writing: Yes / Direct decoding: Yes / Write CD-Text: No
Use playback settings: No / Normalization: None

jleerigby · « **Reply #20 on:** November 14, 2003, 05:58:50 pm »

That's not particularly help Fex. Did you read the thread?

What graphics card are you running? Did you notice any slowdown since build 28X? Which visualisations are you using? Are you using the highest quality setting? Do you use a second monitor? A projection screen or a plasma maybe?

fex · « **Reply #21 on:** November 14, 2003, 07:07:05 pm »

Sorry for being short like this.
I use my living room PC, connected with Media Server to my main PC over a wireless network (LinkSys Wireless-G Router). The living room PC is connected with a Sharp PZ-50HV2E (Plasma TV), no second monitor. I control MC with my iPaq 2215 (PPC 2003) and NetRemote (thanks to mastiff) over the living room PC. Was not able to set up Girder, so I use Nevo so far to remote control HiFi and TV. The living room PC has a "NVIDIA GeoForce2 Ti" (whatever this means, it was built in) and usually I use Picture Terrain, Camera "Flyby", framerate 80 fps, speed at normal.

"No problems" means that I didn't notice any slowdown in the last builds so far.

jleerigby · « **Reply #22 on:** November 15, 2003, 05:12:13 am »

In Vis studio options if I change the draw method from DirectX to Standard the fps increases from around 8.7 to 14 and the timing for my lyrics scroll test improves from 19.5 secs to 18 secs. Still nowhere near the 12 secs I got with build 282. I could really do with someone jumping in a repeating the test that I did so we can compare results.

DougHamm · « **Reply #23 on:** November 15, 2003, 09:36:51 pm »

Quote from: JLee on November 14, 2003, 04:35:02 pm

Quote
I finally narrowed it down: the only component that drags performance down is the only one that doesn't do anything: the cover art!

I removed cover art from the vis I used for my test and repeated the test. Result was the same 19.5 seconds compared to 12 seconds with build 282. Both tests were conducted in an otherwise identical environment (OS, drivers, hardware etc).

How big is your cover art? Mine are hand-scanned and are typically 800K-1.2MB in size. I believe the size of the cover art has a lot to do with how much it affects the speed of a visualization. Gotta put to that to the test.

-Doug

jleerigby · « **Reply #24 on:** November 16, 2003, 03:01:06 am »

You're right. Though I tested again without the cover art I forgot that the vis is using a .jpg for background. Deleting the background speeded things up a lot. I've spent a lot of time on this and have now found 3 things that make a difference to the frame rates:

* Background Images
* Using Standard re-draw instead of DirectX (Why this is faster I don't know?
* Fast write on my graphics card got disabled so I re-enabled it.

If I delete the background image the fps increases from 20 to 52. If I then change the redraw to directX it reduces back to 17.

It doesn't matter what I do with 3D vis - they always grind my system to a halt.

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Visusalizations Stuttering again (Read 3884 times)

LisaRCT

jleerigby

jleerigby

jleerigby

jleerigby

jleerigby

jleerigby

fex

jleerigby

fex

jleerigby

jleerigby