Topic: Unable to watch 2 ATSC Channels (Read 11734 times)

imeric · « **on:** October 14, 2015, 02:25:19 pm »

Strange issue, they show up in the scan but then I'm unable to watch them using any of my 4 cards...
Both of them are RF49 and RF47. They also come in strong.

Any idea what might cause this? I'll try it on another PC later...

I deleted them reran setup a couple of times with no success....

imeric · « **Reply #1 on:** October 15, 2015, 08:39:03 am »

I confirm having the same issue on another PC in the house with ATSC Cards..
Not an issue with sage. Strange this was not there on previous versions...

Yaobing · « **Reply #2 on:** October 15, 2015, 09:15:35 am »

You mean you could watch the same channels in previous version of MC?

What happens when you try to watch the channels?

imeric · « **Reply #3 on:** October 16, 2015, 08:37:21 am »

Hi Yaobbing,

It's just blank and I think I may have seen a No signal but not sure....Looking at Signal Strength in OSD on these channels and it gives me a 100%.

One thing I forgot to do was to check with MC20. I will try this tonight.

Both channels are in the upper range of RF Frequencies. (Real 47 and 49..) If that means anything.... Both channels work fine with Sage (and yes I made sure the Sage service is off while checking).

thx

imeric · « **Reply #4 on:** October 29, 2015, 02:29:20 pm »

BTW I still have this issue for those 2 channels on all my PCs. ANy idea what may cause this?

Yaobing · « **Reply #5 on:** October 29, 2015, 04:49:13 pm »

Email me a log.

imeric · « **Reply #6 on:** October 31, 2015, 06:17:13 pm »

Log Sent.
thx

Yaobing · « **Reply #7 on:** November 02, 2015, 08:45:06 am »

Your log reveals that the audio video streams never come down for those problem channels.

There was a similar problem reported by thane108 nearly a year ago.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=93990.msg649442#msg649442

In a nutshell, the broadcaster set inconsistent parameters. Since we use Microsoft DirectShow solution for television playback, if DirectShow is unforgiving about such inconsistency, we can not do anything about it.

imeric · « **Reply #8 on:** November 02, 2015, 11:34:35 am »

Still remains unclear to me why it is working with Sage (Which I believe uses directshow as well? Maybe not...)

According to the other post you're citing are you suggesting I should use Mediaportal?

I could send an e-mail to the culprit stations but wouldn't know what to tell them..Could you please give me more meat so I can send them something so they can fix it?

I would also suggest you find a way for JRiver to be more "forgiving" in these instances as It is most likely happening to someone else in Canada or the US.

Sage was also doing something strange 1-2 years back with an NBC station which was not sending proper PSIP info but JRiver was fine...Nothing's perfect!!...The station corrected it ...A few months!!!

Thx Yaobbing.

Yaobing · « **Reply #9 on:** November 02, 2015, 11:54:36 am »

Quote from: imeric on November 02, 2015, 11:34:35 am

Still remains unclear to me why it is working with Sage (Which I believe uses directshow as well? Maybe not...)

I do not know how Sage works, but it maybe true that they do not use Microsoft DirectShow and thus is more "forgiving" to such problems.

Quote

According to the other post you're citing are you suggesting I should use Mediaportal?

No. That was just the other user's temporary solution.

Quote

I could send an e-mail to the culprit stations but wouldn't know what to tell them..Could you please give me more meat so I can send them something so they can fix it?

The following was posted by the other user in the thread I linked above. It was from HDHomerun tech support.

Code: [Select]

Re: No signal on one channel in JRiver
Unread postby jasonl » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:10 am

The TSID in the PAT doesn't match the TSID in the TVCT. Per ATSC specs, those numbers are required to match. Most stuff doesn't care if they don't, but apparently JRiver does. WMC does too. It's one of the more common problems in ATSC broadcasts, because the numbers need to be set in two different devices, so if a station ever has to replace equipment or if the configuration ever gets lost, it's easy to forget to set one, and they might not notice it until some random hardware or software fails to tune it and someone starts looking at the stream.

It is only my guess that your problem maybe similar to this one. You could ask the TV station whether they set their transport stream ID (TSID) consistently in PAT and in TVCT. PAT stands for "Program Association Table" and TVCT stands for "Terrestrial Virtual Channel Table". Tell them that some software such as JRiver Media Center and Window Media Center consider inconsistent TSID an error (it is an error according to ATSC standard) and could not receive the TV signal.

Quote

I would also suggest you find a way for JRiver to be more "forgiving" in these instances as It is most likely happening to someone else in Canada or the US.

Indeed, I should. But if the solution involves completely abandoning DirectShow, it will not be a feasible solution, not in the immediate future anyway.

imeric · « **Reply #10 on:** November 02, 2015, 01:51:19 pm »

Good stuff. I'll try this and send them the info.
thx

imeric · « **Reply #11 on:** November 08, 2015, 06:04:50 pm »

Hi Yaobbing,

I was hoping (or praying

) 21.0.19 would give me those 2 channels back but it's not the case. One of them is very important to me as it has hockey games and TV shows I need to record. Any chance you can ease off the requirements to tune the channels despite the discrepancies in the ATSC header info?

Hopefully the TS Reader logs I sent you were enough. If you need more let me know.

Anyone else out there with channels tuning in with other softwares but not with MC21??? As an FYI they do get picked up by MC during scan but don't play (or record...) :

And as an FYI all my TVs and Sage + WinTV play these channels just fine.
Thx.

Yaobing · « **Reply #12 on:** November 08, 2015, 07:35:39 pm »

Sorry, I still have not found a way to do it. I need a way to tell Microsoft DirectShow to ignore such inconsistency, but I have not found one.

If DirectShow does not offer such an interface, we are stuck.

imeric · « **Reply #13 on:** November 11, 2015, 07:23:59 pm »

Hi Yaobing,

Hopefully this will help...I installed Hauppage WinTVv8 to see if the missing channels would work and they work just fine in WinTV. Let me know if I can provide you with anything to help resolve this. I desperately need one out of the 2 channels to use JRiver for TV/Recording/Watching.

Thanks!

imeric · « **Reply #14 on:** November 20, 2015, 08:51:29 am »

Hi Yaobbing,

I also tried on a windows 7 PC and configured Windows Media Center. Both channels work just fine so if it works in WMC shouldn't it also work in MC21?

JRiver is the only software out of WinTV, Sage, and Windows Media Center to have issues with those 2 channels. I'm sure I'm not the only one with this problem so can you Pleazzzze find a solution or workaround?
(Having the broadcaster fix the TSID discrepancies, even though I tried...Will not happen anytime soon...)

Thank you.

If you need more info (like WMC logs or else...) Let me know and I'll gladly help. If you want to send me a beta version for me to try since you can't reproduce on your end we could do that too.

If I can get past this issue I'll use JRiver (after seeing all the nice things that were added for TV in the last couple of updates

)

Yaobing · « **Reply #15 on:** November 20, 2015, 09:08:52 am »

I still don't have a solution. Sorry.

imeric · « **Reply #16 on:** November 20, 2015, 10:50:21 am »

Anyone else having a similar issue?

imeric · « **Reply #17 on:** November 22, 2015, 08:25:27 pm »

Hi Yaobbing, I really need your help on this. IS there a possible workaround on this? I'm still trying to understand why there is no way to make this work in MC. Isn't WMC using Directshow as well? As per my previous posts WMC is working just fine....

I tried manually changing the channel to it's physical channel but that didn't work..

imeric · « **Reply #18 on:** December 10, 2015, 08:04:12 pm »

Hi Yaobbing,

21.0.26 and I'm still missing that channel. I confirm it's working with all the other TV software's including Windows Media Center, WinTV and Media Portal.

Yaobbing I really need a fix for this. I can't believe I'm the only one with this issue!!. Nevertheless without a fix for this I can't use JRiver and will hold on to Sage for longer than I'd hope...

Again if you need anything from me let me know...

Thank You.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #19 on:** December 16, 2015, 07:33:53 pm »

G'Day Imeric.

Have you really chased the broadcaster about this issue, and tried very hard to get them to fix the problem?

It sounds like that is the most likely avenue to success at this stage. If DirectShow can't do it, I doubt it will be updated to make it possible.

Also, if you could confirm absolutely that Sage uses DirectShow for receiving TV? If it does, then maybe there is a way to work around the DirectShow issue. You should find that out if you can.

Also, you never did quite answer this question, although it may have become irrelevant after the log showed the channels weren't being picked up properly.

Quote from: Yaobing on October 15, 2015, 09:15:35 am

You mean you could watch the same channels in previous version of MC?

Basically, the more research you do, and quality information you provide, the more likely a solution will be found for you.

PS: Sage TV does seem to use DirectShow for playback, but with a quick look I couldn't confirm what it uses for receiving TV. It looks likely that it does use DirectShow though, since DirectShow provides filters for collecting the transport stream. Sage does apparently always use its own Splitter, which may be customised to overcome a problem like this. More research required.

imeric · « **Reply #20 on:** December 18, 2015, 10:23:36 am »

Hi RoderickGI,

Thanks for your answer. Yes I really tried with the broadcaster (3 times) but I'm being ignored. I've seen a few posts of people reporting discrepancies in the Virtual Channel (showing 49 instead of 62) but no one is complaining of not having an image... Which is probably why the broadcaster is ignoring me.

I already gave Yaobbing all the log files from both TSReader and MC21.

For Sage maybe Glynor could chime in as I believe he knows SageTV fairly well? From what I could read SageTV is also using Direcshow (DirectShow Recording Graph?).

I wish I could be more helpful but I couldn't find anymore info. At the end of the day all other software's work despite the broadcaster issue so this "problem" if not resolved will (or already is) affecting others.
And without that channel I can't use MC21.
Thanks

imeric · « **Reply #21 on:** January 06, 2016, 10:18:56 am »

@Yaobbing any updates on these 2 channels missing? Workaround or other users experiencing the same thing?

Those 2 channels are the only one with discrepancies in TSID throughout North America?? .. IMHO you will eventually have others reporting this as your customer base is growing for TV!!!
Please help me as I can't use JRiver for TV because of it.

I've done searches on the web and the only thing I could find was one of the station had the issue for more than 2 years now and lots of people have reported the discrepancy to the broadcaster. I guess people stopped complaining when WMC started working with it at some point...

And to answer my other point about the channel being available in MC it most likely goes back to 2013 when WMC users reported it was working then and stopped (as per MC19 or 20 at that time..).

The other channel with the discrepancy has only been around for 1-2 years.

thx

imeric · « **Reply #22 on:** January 06, 2016, 10:23:48 am »

One more thing looking at the other post:

Quote from: thane108 on December 06, 2014, 06:25:16 pm

I'm having a strange issue with one OTA channel that works fine with other viewers. I'm using HDHomerun dual.

I can view this channel using HDHomerun View. It also works using windows media player (the default viewer in HDHomerun). JRiver just shows a black screen - no error messages.

thane108 also confirms it was working with WMC but not MC

imeric · « **Reply #23 on:** January 06, 2016, 10:37:33 am »

Sorry one more thing...I did lots of research on the "Microsoft" issue with no real answer Especially if WMC can work either on its own or by just manually editing the Virtual channel number but not MC

Here is the Question in the other post:

Quote from: thane108 on January 01, 2015, 01:06:15 pm

Thanks - and you guys do a great job - love the product - so don't take this as a criticism. And after all, the bottom line is that this is a problem with the station.

That said - I'm curious - what role does Microsoft in this?

Just wondering why a variety of software programs can tune the station - just not JRiver and Microsoft Media Center.

Probably over my head, but I would be interested.

I love the product as well

Just can't wait to use it for TV

imeric · « **Reply #24 on:** January 11, 2016, 09:29:47 am »

Well I just heard back from one of the 2 Broadcasters and after the 4th trial the info finally got to a technician and they resolved the issue!!!

This is the channel that is important to me the other one being an ethnic channel I don't watch much so I can give a shot at using JRiver for TV!
Can't wait to see how that goes.

Now if I can get my commercial skip timeline in progress bar + multiple folders for recordings I'll be a very happy man !!!

CountryBumkin · « **Reply #25 on:** January 11, 2016, 10:20:11 am »

Quote from: imeric on January 11, 2016, 09:29:47 am

Well I just heard back from one of the 2 Broadcasters and after the 4th trial the info finally got to a technician and they resolved the issue!!!

Excellent! Yee-ha

Yaobing · « **Reply #26 on:** January 11, 2016, 10:56:19 am »

Good news!

I am still searching for a solution so we will not be at the mercy of TV stations...

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Author Topic: Unable to watch 2 ATSC Channels (Read 11734 times)