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[MikeO]

Hi

I own a Cambridge Audio CXN which I currently run using an external HDD , but I want to move to a fully networked solution soon.

CA have a iPad app Cambridge Connect which is OK but nothing like as comprehensive as JRemote, so I want to use JRemote to control things

My problem is that it doesn’t want to play gapless. If you look on the forum under Media Networking , the thread is in the top 10 ( Cambridge Cxn does not do gapless with MC controlling it ) or so and yo can see the background. AndrewFG has been helping but there is some info he can’t access.

The symptoms , Play Dark Side Of The Moon for example , it should run continuously , as you get the transition between the tracks, the CXN screen shows “STOPPED” and then restarts on track 2 and so on.

I am using MC 21 latest build as the DNLA server and currently running wireless pending installing cables

Using CA Connect and the “Media Server” I get normal gapless play , as I use JRemote it reverts to gapped

I have used AndrewFG’s tools to interogate the CA CXN and it looks like the unit is capable.

All in all it looks like as the controller JRemote is passing the stop between tracks

Can you comment or help.

Mike

[MikeO]

Is any body going to comment from JRiver ?

It seems like this subject is being avoided ?

Mike

[Arindelle]

Is any body going to comment from JRiver ?

It seems like this subject is being avoided ?

Mike

no one is avoiding you Mike ... the devs don't have all brands of hardware to test, I certainly don't. ANd not all devices are 100% compatible running through DLNA. If you can use JRiver as a renderer, you have all the functionality

If you are talking about controlling your network player from JRemote, you might want to try playing with the DLNA audio settings - I seem to remember that for some DLna devices to work the PCM No header (Ithink it is L16?) option rather than PCM24 helped .. but I'm just guessing, and maybe this was not for the gapless function.

[AndrewFG]

In defense of the OP..

We have a suspicion that when MC itself is pushing a playlist it does support gapless (i.e. respecting the "Use SetNext" attribute on the renderer) however when the playlist was created on JRemote then (our suspicion is that) MC does not respect the "Use SetNext" attribute on the renderer, so the playback is not gapless when JRemote is running the show...

So it is not a renderer specific question but rather a question relating to core functionality of MC and JRemote...

[MikeO]

Thanks Arindelle, I was feeling a little ignored 

I am using a dedicated Streamer rather than a PC with MC since it makes life so much easier in terms of set up etc, I seemed to be spending more time tweaking a PC and less listening.

As you gather Andrew & I have been around the block on this subject a couple of times

The symptoms, Play through MC with a set of DNLA settings the CA CNX plays gapless, play with same settings with JRemote controlling things and its not gapless.

It looks to me (in fact I know) that the CXN has the capability to play gapless when fed DNLA , but when that involves JRemote its sends a stop between tracks , even if there are none like in Dark Side Of The Moon.

My logic is that JRemote is sending a different "instruction set" than MC itself.

I was hoping to prompt LesPaul to comments , he is the author of JRemote isn't he.

Mike

[AndrewFG]

My logic is that JRemote is sending a different "instruction set" than MC itself.

Actually my logic is that it is not JRemote who is sending a "different instruction set". But rather that when JRemote sends a playlist to MC, that causes MC to use a "different instruction set" than what it uses when MC generates the playlist for itself. In other words I think it is an issue in the MC application, and not an issue in the JRemote application.

To be more concrete, when MC itself adds tracks to its playing now playlist, then depending on the renderer's "Enable SetNext support" attribute it selectively uses either SetAVTransportURI (gapped) or SetNextAVTransportURI (gapless) commands to play out the tracks in the playlist. I don't know this but I am guessing that JRemote controls MC via the MCWS web service interface. Is that correct? If so, then my suspicion is that when JRemote commands MC to add tracks to its playing now playlist, that mechanism (MCWS) triggers MC to ignore the renderer's "Enable SetNext support" attribute, and instead always use SetAVTransportURI (gapped) commands to play out the tracks.

[glynor]

I am guessing that JRemote controls MC via the MCWS web service interface. Is that correct?

That is correct.

I don't know about the latter bit. I know that JRemote plays perfectly gapless when controlling a copy of MC itself (plugged into regular speakers). So, the files are getting added to Playing Now normally by MCWS. That's not surprising. Using a remote copy of MC itself in "Tremote" mode also uses MCWS. That should be identical to local behavior as far as the sever is concerned.

I don't think it is relevant here, but... JRemote is not, and has never been, completely gapless when streaming to the "This Device" zone (to the iOS device itself). It gets pretty darn close when I play streaming on my lan on my more modern iOS devices, and I get only the slightest of hitches then (a "tick" really), but it isn't gapless.

[MikeO]

Hi Glynor

You are describing a small glitch or gap, what I am seeing is a physical stop. The CXN has a screen that shows the streamer status,between tracks it shows stopped and then moves to the next track

Make

[MikeO]

Is anyone from jriver going to comment on this issue ?

Mike

[AndrewFG]

Is anyone from jriver going to comment on this issue ?

 

By the way I did some more testing, and -- contrary to our original hypothesis -- I discovered that regardless of whether the play process is controlled from MC itself or from JRemote, the server always sends SetNextAVTransportURI commands i.e. gapless commands. In other words, it actually works fine for me. So unfortunately I have run out of ideas why you are encountering this problem.

[blgentry]

These types of problems seem rather common with DLNA.  Knowing what I know now, I would never suggest that any audiophile use a networked DAC.  That being said, there are several alternatives with your CA CXN box.

First, it has USB.  So you should be able to connect to it as a DAC directly, which should give you the full range of MC's features, including gapless playback.  Bonus:  There's no network involved, so you'll never have any dropouts or worry about the network being a problem with playback.

But I hear you shouting through the screen at me:  "But I bought this to use it on my network!  I'm not moving my computer just so I can plug it in via USB."  Ok, it seems that the CXN also supports AirPlay.  AirPlay seems to be more sophisticated than DLNA and I believe supports gapless natively.  You need third party software to use AirPlay on a PC with non-itunes players like MC.  TuneBlade has gotten just a ton of good reviews and experiences here.  It costs $10, but you can try it for free.  If this $10 product makes your $1000 DAC work as you expect, I'd say that's a good add on accessory value!

http://tuneblade.com/

Good luck.

Brian.

[MikeO]

Hi Brian

I bought the cxn to get away from a PC dac setup, it was becoming painful.

I use it with a 2tb external sub drive with no issues

The reason for my change is the richer menu structure I can get with Dlna and mc. The ca app works fine with mc and Dlna but jremote is slicker. JRemote however doesn't do gapless

Guess I stick wthi the use hdd

Cheers

Mike

[blgentry]

I don't understand your setup I guess.  I was just trying to help solve your problem.

Brian.

[MikeO]

Hi Brian no offense meant  

I started with a PC-dac setup running mc, I had so many issues with PC etc that I wanted a proper htpc but you simply can't buy one in South Africa and I didn't fancy the building bit.

So I looked for a hi fi component single box hence the cXN the loss of course was jriver as CA use their own software. I use it with a USB external drive and it's fine , a great sound. The CA smart app Connect is a bit basic so I looked towards using jremote as a controller which is where this issue started.

Having weighed the pros and cons, I reckon the hard wired drive is the best option with just wi fi to do the control bit not the music distribution bit.

I still think mc is a superb product but I really found myself playing computers and not listening

Hope that explains my grumps !!!

Mike

[blgentry]

I think you're confused.  JRemote doesn't have anything to do with gapless playback when used to control MC.

You're trying to control your CXN with JRemote?  Or are you trying to do some 3 way network setup where the CXN is a DLNA source of to MC and the CXN is also a DLNA renderer to MC?

Here's what you should be doing:

A.  MC with the USB drive attached to it.  USB from MC computer to CXN as a DAC.  JRemote controls MC.  This is the best setup.

OR

B.  MC with USB drive attached to it.  MC sending audio to the CXN as a DLNA renderer.  JRemote controlling MC.

In the case of B, CXN might not support gapless playback via DLNA.  Which is one of the many reasons why you'd use setup A instead.

Or maybe I'm still confused about your setup...  In any case, I wish you good luck and good listening.

Brian.

[MikeO]

Hi Brian,

My old setup was A, no problems using a separate DAC

The new set up is B, I have my main PC wired to router DLNA to the CXN using the CA Connect app, I get gaples no problem.

When I now use JRemote instead of the CA app l lose gapless. That was the issue.

The CA app is good, it sees MC DLNA menus , but JRemote is far better hence I tried to use it to control MC working as a server. To no avail.

I have 2 options, stick to DLNA and CA Connect or simply use a local USB HDD withe the CNX and the Connect app.

Both work fine , DLNA gives me richer navigation with MC custom menus and Tags

thanks for the help

Mike

[MikeO]

PS

Through the whole of this (long) debate there has been much community comment but still no formal response from J River !!!

Sad really as they can probably answer the question one way or the other in seconds

Mike

[MikeO]

Hi

I am sitting hear listening Dark Side of the Moon gaplessly via JRemote WOW

Who dun what .

I had give up and not tried again until this morning.

My set up is exactly as it was 6 months back ,

Grump over I can now use JRemote like I wanted to. I suppose I need to buy the android version for my phone now

Thanks -- even if it wasn't a deliberate fix

Mike