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Author Topic: MC 21: Pause jumps to start of track when playing to DLNA renderer  (Read 3796 times)

chriswimlett

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When I stream to my Naim SuperUniti from a MacBook Pro, if I click the pause button then click again to resume playback, MC restarts from the beginning of the track.  If I play to the SuperUniti via core audio without using the DLNA route, pause and resume works normally.  This happens both when I use the MC desktop or JRemote to control playback.

Is there a setting somewhere I'm missing?  I'm using MC 21.0.31.
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blgentry

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Re: MC 21: Pause jumps to start of track when playing to DLNA renderer
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2016, 10:52:52 am »

If I play to the SuperUniti via core audio without using the DLNA route, pause and resume works normally.

I'm guessing there's some reason you don't want to use core audio?  Distance from Mac to Naim perhaps?

Brian.
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chriswimlett

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Re: MC 21: Pause jumps to start of track when playing to DLNA renderer
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2016, 11:12:51 am »

It's mostly sound quality.  Core audio output is via a Toslink cable from the MacBook Pro to an optical input on the SuperUniti, and the DLNA connection sounds noticeably better, especially on higher resolution albums.

Chris
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Daverich4

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Re: MC 21: Pause jumps to start of track when playing to DLNA renderer
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2016, 08:54:56 am »

I have the same problem when playing to my Logitech Tranporter and Touch except most of the time when I press pause on Remote on my iPad it immediately jumps back to the beginning of the song and continues playing.
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Arindelle

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Re: MC 21: Pause jumps to start of track when playing to DLNA renderer
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2016, 10:29:19 am »

When I stream to my Naim SuperUniti from a MacBook Pro, if I click the pause button then click again to resume playback, MC restarts from the beginning of the track.  If I play to the SuperUniti via core audio without using the DLNA route, pause and resume works normally.  This happens both when I use the MC desktop or JRemote to control playback.

Is there a setting somewhere I'm missing?  I'm using MC 21.0.31.
I set-up a friend of mine's Super Uniti 2 years ago. At that time the Naim firmware didn't support all functionality. As you know "DLNA" doesn't mean that a renderer supports all functions, its just a set of guidelines. At that time it had problems with gapless playback too, but evidently that has been resolved.  AndrewFG has made a nifty program that analyses what renderers can do, and might be able to help you. I think the Naim shoudl already be in his data base but a log from the program might let him help you with the best settings - the renderer analyzer is in his siganture http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?action=profile;u=26939 I'm not an expert at all on DLNA renderers, but I know you can experiment with PCM L16 no header and PCM L24 no header instead of the default PCM24 under Audio format options for the DLNA server in the mean time maybe.

It's mostly sound quality.  Core audio output is via a Toslink cable from the MacBook Pro to an optical input on the SuperUniti, and the DLNA connection sounds noticeably better, especially on higher resolution albums.
As you mentioned Hi-res albums, the Naim Toslink optical does not support over 96Khz albums. It does support up to 192kHz via SPDIF coax or BNC. So there is remedy. Other than the connection limitation, this is surprising to me, however. Especially for normal redbook PCM recordings/

My friend wanted to use his super uniti as the "renderer" too, but he had some misconceptions as I tried to explain that a bit-perfect signal is still going to go directly into the very nice NAIM dac inside. But he had his new kit and a bit of "expectation bias"  ;D
So I set up 2 zones optical and 2 zones with a coax cable to test making sure the output levels were identical. I found there was no difference, my friend found that JRiver as renderer sounded better (blind test for him). Regardless all functionality including DSPs if and when needed just worked.

Frankly there is no reason there should be a decrease in quality unless you have not set up your Output formats correctly for high rez files (under DSP studio, there should be no change for all the frequencies up to 192khz using coax, 96khz for optical -- let the NAIM handle all PCM upsampling itself; you would set JRiver to downsample to 96K or 192 for the higher frequencies depending on the connection used).  I'd give JRiver another try as the renderer if I were you.

The only reason I personally would use the Naim as a renderer is if I was connecting it via ethernet to other locations or if I wanted to use the internet radio option they have on board maybe.  Even if you would want to avail yourself of those occasionally, you can set up separate zones, like I did for the test - one as a DLNA renderer the other using JRiver as the Renderer. Now the only difference is that this was tested under WASAPI and Windows, but core audio is being circumvented anyways in  MAC os isn't it. Anyways your choice of course. Its all about listening to the music, in anycase.

So Happy listening  :)
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chriswimlett

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Re: MC 21: Pause jumps to start of track when playing to DLNA renderer
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2016, 09:40:25 am »

Hey, thanks for such a detailed reply, it's made things a lot clearer and has given me plenty to experiment with.  I'll check out AndrewFG's program, but from what you say, and my experience so far, I'm inclined to try to go with JRiver as the renderer.  Certainly operation with JRemote is fine if I don't use DLNA.

I found I did have JRiver set to upsample anything below 96 kHz, so have reset the appropriate settings.  Am right in thinking that the optical out of the MacBook is restricted to 96 kHz?  Would some sort of USB to coaxial converter be a better option, and have you got any experience of these?  I've just upgraded to a QED optical cable, which has made some difference.

Expectation bias could be playing a part, so I'll set up separate zones and try to enlist my wife to assist with some proper blind testing.  I'll admit though that I spent last night listening through the optical connection, without trying a side-by-side comparison first, and it did sound very good.  As you say, the music's the thing!

Thanks again
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Arindelle

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Re: MC 21: Pause jumps to start of track when playing to DLNA renderer
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2016, 07:32:11 am »

sure no problem

I found I did have JRiver set to upsample anything below 96 kHz, so have reset the appropriate settings.  Am right in thinking that the optical out of the MacBook is restricted to 96 kHz?
I'm not sure actually ... don't use Macs and have never looked into it ... but a quick googling says it depends on the model.  Here's the link from Apple I found  https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202730. However, Naim says on the spec sheet that the SUperUnit toslink INPUT will not support any input over 96khz. So doesn't matter if your Mac can do it or not. Curious as the two stand alone Naim Dacs do not indicate a 96khz limit, but both go up to 192khz (above this you need to use USB?!)

Would some sort of USB to coaxial converter be a better option, and have you got any experience of these?  I've just upgraded to a QED optical cable, which has made some difference.
oh, oh .. dangerous terrain. I don't like to start polemics about this. Personally, I'm not a big fan of spending lots of money on cables. There are good cables and there are bad ones, sure. The choice between coax and optical, IMHO, has a lot to do with if longer cables are needed or not, if electrical interference is very high and unavoidable. I don't like USB connections if I can avoid them ... but in saying that with proper equipment, short cables etc., could I hear the difference -- doubt it  ;). I just found that there can be complications using USB, and I like to avoid having additional potential problem areas if troubleshooting is required.  The tech for USB dacs has evolved since I bought my equipment enormously. Regarding USB to coax converters (SPDIF) ... they can be be expensive ... and is the result any better than with a good dac handling asynchronous ? IMO (again my opinion as I do not want to flip this into an audio debate) ... these things served a purpose I guess for laptops that only had a USB out. All of my motherboards have both optical and coax SPDIF outs, so this has never been an issue for me.

edit: Just looked again at the Spec sheet for the SUperuniti and it strange ... there is no indication that their USB input is asynchronous ... and, go figure,  that there is only a USB port from the front for an ipod? ... I was going to say use straight USB, creating a special zone for high rez output in JRiver .. now I'm not sure. Wierd from a company with such good gear ... might want to contact them about that ... see if there is a firmware upgrade
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chriswimlett

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Re: MC 21: Pause jumps to start of track when playing to DLNA renderer
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2016, 10:48:56 am »

I'm not sure actually ... don't use Macs and have never looked into it ... but a quick googling says it depends on the model.  Here's the link from Apple I found  https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202730. However, Naim says on the spec sheet that the SUperUnit toslink INPUT will not support any input over 96khz. So doesn't matter if your Mac can do it or not. Curious as the two stand alone Naim Dacs do not indicate a 96khz limit, but both go up to 192khz (above this you need to use USB?!)

Fair point, I've found my MacBook optical out is restricted to 96kHz, but as you say this doesn't matter.  I've only got two 192 kHz albums at the moment, so not really a problem.

oh, oh .. dangerous terrain. I don't like to start polemics about this. Personally, I'm not a big fan of spending lots of money on cables. There are good cables and there are bad ones, sure. The choice between coax and optical, IMHO, has a lot to do with if longer cables are needed or not, if electrical interference is very high and unavoidable. I don't like USB connections if I can avoid them ... but in saying that with proper equipment, short cables etc., could I hear the difference -- doubt it  ;). I just found that there can be complications using USB, and I like to avoid having additional potential problem areas if troubleshooting is required.  The tech for USB dacs has evolved since I bought my equipment enormously. Regarding USB to coax converters (SPDIF) ... they can be be expensive ... and is the result any better than with a good dac handling asynchronous ? IMO (again my opinion as I do not want to flip this into an audio debate) ... these things served a purpose I guess for laptops that only had a USB out. All of my motherboards have both optical and coax SPDIF outs, so this has never been an issue for me.

I needed to get a slightly longer optical cable anyway, so paid a bit extra to get the QED - I'd be reluctant to spend more though without being able to demo the cable to see if I can hear a difference.  Certainly, at least for CD quality, the optical connection is sounding pretty good so far, and there's none of the delay I'm getting with the DLNA connection.

edit: Just looked again at the Spec sheet for the SUperuniti and it strange ... there is no indication that their USB input is asynchronous ... and, go figure,  that there is only a USB port from the front for an ipod? ... I was going to say use straight USB, creating a special zone for high rez output in JRiver .. now I'm not sure. Wierd from a company with such good gear ... might want to contact them about that ... see if there is a firmware upgrade

Yes, it is strange but the USB port is just for connecting iPods and USB drives.  I guess Naim want you to take the steaming route.

Thanks again
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