Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[gkerber]

I really like having the Playing Now displayed in the Action Window.  I'd also like to be able to show the PlayingNow Image there too, instead of the currently selected track.

But I really really don't like Properties in the Action window.  The width is WAY too narrow to really be useful, so then I have to make it a window to be able to edit it.  Then I forget to unwindow it and I lose my PlayingNow display.

Does anyone really like that little narrow properties window when displayed in the ActionWindow?  I don't....

I propose that the Properties window ALWAYS be undocked and totally unassociated with the Action Window.

The Action Window should show PlayingNow and Images, not Properties.  Thoughts?  Playing Now and Properties are not related, but the Action Window is trying to share space with the two unrelated functions.

And showing Properties in that little narrow Action Window is about useless.

Thoughts?

[LisaRCT]

Thoughts?

sometimes I have thoughts . . .   they scare me

[Matt]

How about coming up with a "Detailed Info" layout that's more narrow-view friendly?  Any ideas?

[NoCodeUK]

How about if the properties view in the action window was purely that, a view.  Read only list of the properties but then there could be abutton which rather than undocking the action window opens a new properties window where the properties can be edited...like it does currently for lyrics and bios when a new window is spawned...sort of like what happens know when props are undocked but a seperate window rather than the action window itself...

Adam

[NoCodeUK]

I was just thinking that the problem now is that if you undock for the sake of proerties you actually undock the whole window.  I dont really see how I personally would want any of the things in a window apart from properties.  Therefore if the properties is separted from the action window in some way like I described then you aren't undocking the shole window and can safely shut the properties window after editing without affecting the rest of the action window.  AT the moment if you undock then shut the window the action window disappears

Adam

[KingSparta]

the only thing i can say is i like to look at the Play List I am building and the list I am adding from.

we were talking about this about a month ago, and really like the way it has changed in this respect.



'Sol, Arena, Y Mar' Charted At 67 In 1999 (Latin Billboard)

Listening to: 'Sol, Arena, Y Mar' from 'Amarte Es Un Placer' by 'Luis Miguel' on Media Center 9.1

[Omni]

Not that this will make me your favorite person, gkerber, but I pretty much disagree with everything you stated.

For one thing, the pane is horizontally resizable.  If you are using Large system fonts or something, then temporarily resize the Action Window while you're editing/viewing the properties.  (I just don't believe in designing for the exception and not the rule.)

Also, floating modeless windows are to be frowned upon, not embraced.

Finally, how can it be said that because the two functions are unrelated they should not be sharing space.  Maybe I am mistaken, but isn't that the whole point of the Action Window:  to create a common area to perform various, unrelated MC functions?

Since you make the most noise around here, I concede that your opinion tends to bear more weight than mine; but I personally think the Action Window is shaping up very well and would be disappointed if JRiver implemented your proposed changes.

Omni

[MachineHead]

Since you make the most noise

I don't know. Properties is cumbersome in this window now. You have to pick an 'Action'. I thought it was easier cycling with arrows before. Now it's, ahhh, file info, yeah. I still think properties should be handled differently as well.

And to be completely honest. It looks a little gimmicky right now. Though it does function as it's meant to.

Is that too much noise for you?

[KingSparta]

I thought it was easier cycling with arrows before.

I do agree with you.

[gkerber]

the only thing i can say is i like to look at the Play List I am building and the list I am adding from.

I agree, I like it too, I like the new Action Window display of the playing now.

I can't really use properties there though, it's way too narrow.

I am just throwing out ideas, that maybe the whole concept of reusing the Action Window for all that it does AND properties may not be the best thing.

I always use properities undocked, always.  And now with the  PlayingNow in the Action Window, I want that too, but under the tree.  I want everything....

And sooner or later, I'll come up with an idea that everyone likes....

[LonWar]

The only thing that I don't like about the properties is that they are no longer grouped.

[gkerber]

I personally prefer it the way it is. I'm one that likes to keep the number of open windows to an absolute minimum.

Me too, I like windows kept to a minimum, I am a full screen guy.  But properties is transient, so as a undocked window, I can live with that, especially considering how narrow it is in the Action Window.

I really like the Action Window, but not for properities, too narrow.

I'd also like for the Image to follow playing now....

[Doof]

I agree, I like it too, I like the new Action Window display of the playing now.

I can't really use properties there though, it's way too narrow.

I am just throwing out ideas, that maybe the whole concept of reusing the Action Window for all that it does AND properties may not be the best thing.

I always use properities undocked, always.  And now with the  PlayingNow in the Action Window, I want that too, but under the tree.  I want everything....

And sooner or later, I'll come up with an idea that everyone likes....

I'm still not clear on why you can't just adjust the width of it horizontally.

Or how it's really any different than what was there before it was named the Action Window. It acts a little differently, but once you open File Properties, how is it suddenly any narrower than it was before?

[gkerber]

I was just thinking that the problem now is that if you undock for the sake of proerties you actually undock the whole window.  I dont really see how I personally would want any of the things in a window apart from properties.  Therefore if the properties is separted from the action window in some way like I described then you aren't undocking the shole window and can safely shut the properties window after editing without affecting the rest of the action window.  AT the moment if you undock then shut the window the action window disappears

Yes, that is my point.

I like my MC set up to be stable, not docking and undocking and forgetting to put things back.

I would keep the Action Window under the tree, and basically only use it for PlayingNow and Images (if it followed PlayingNow).

Properities is transient, it can pop up, get edited and go away.

[gkerber]

Not that this will make me your favorite person, gkerber, but I pretty much disagree with everything you stated.

Healthy disagreement is good,  no problem here.

For one thing, the pane is horizontally resizable.  If you are using Large system fonts or something, then temporarily resize the Action Window while you're editing/viewing the properties.  (I just don't believe in designing for the exception and not the rule.)

That's the point of discussion, to see what is the exception and what is not.

I like a stable view of MC, not moving this pane around, resizing that frame and docking and undocking all the time.  Then I never know what state it will be in, I'm too forgetfully to always put things back all the time.

Also, floating modeless windows are to be frowned upon, not embraced.

Says who?

Finally, how can it be said that because the two functions are unrelated they should not be sharing space.

I'm saying that because they are unrelated they don't need to be sharing the same space.  Playing Now is something that I think most people will leave showing, properities is not something I think most people will leave showing all the time.

So make properities detachable from the Action Window, or else it stays where it is in the Action Window.  I know there are a million little things people want. I'd like this.

Maybe I am mistaken, but isn't that the whole point of the Action Window:  to create a common area to perform various, unrelated MC functions?

I'm not sure any of us have been told what the point of it is, I think most of us like the idea though.

Since you make the most noise around here

Now that does not make you my favorite person, noise is an antagonistic word, not necessary, okay?

I concede that your opinion tends to bear more weight than mine

I wish....  I think we all listen to everyone and then MC does what they think is best for their program.  I think it works well.

but I personally think the Action Window is shaping up very well and would be disappointed if JRiver implemented your proposed changes.

Thanks for voicing your opinion.  Speak up more if you think your voice is not being heard.  

[gkerber]

I'm still not clear on why you can't just adjust the width of it horizontally.

It's easy to adjust the width, but as I stated before, I like a stable view of MC so it always looks the same to me.  It's what I like....and I said it out loud, that's all.

Or how it's really any different than what was there before it was named the Action Window. It acts a little differently, but once you open File Properties, how is it suddenly any narrower than it was before?

I always used properties undocked, always, for the same reasons I'm been writing.

Now that playing now is there too, I really like that feature, but then it messes up my use of properties (without always fiddling with my screen setup).

[Doof]

I'm saying that because they are unrelated they don't need to be sharing the same space.  Playing Now is something that I think most people will leave showing, properities is not something I think most people will leave showing all the time.

I tend to leave the entire thing closed at all times, only opening it when I need to do something. 9 times out of 10, that something is editting tags. So, for me, at least, it's the exact opposite.

For now. We'll see how this changes as I get used to using it to construct playlists and Playing Now.

[MachineHead]

Perhaps the real thing here is that gkerber would like to undock the properties, and only the properties, without necessarily forcing the rest of us to have it undocked.

Maybe there's a way that undock would only undock the currently shown action window item, and leave the other aw items docked?

Oh, and properties may be considered transient to *you*, but it's on my screen quite often as I poke around my library, looking for things I haven't quite filled in yet.

1) I think that goes a little beyond what Jim had mentioned as far as little tweaks.

2) Agree with your properties comment.


@Doof-

Has it been so long since you used 9.0.xxx? The ability to just click the slider arrow (that thing on the right hand side of the program) and out comes a pre-sized properties window is sorely missed. Maybe not by you. But by enough people who aren't head over heels in love with the latest incarnation of it. It doesn't work in the same fashion as before. Regardless if you horizontally resize it.

[nameless]

I am just throwing out ideas....

And sooner or later, I'll come up with an idea that everyone likes....

I like your ideas.  I usually do.  (We seem to think very much alike.  I bet you also believe very strongly in structured program design and internal and external documentation--anathema to many programmers.)

And I agree on how I'd like for file properties to be handled; I like using the Action Window for Playing Now, but I don't like having a too-narrow view when I switch it to show Properties.

[gkerber]

Perhaps the real thing here is that gkerber would like to undock the properties, and only the properties, without necessarily forcing the rest of us to have it undocked.

I'd be happy if properities were undocked and the Action Window did not react to having or not having properities selected.

Oh, and properties may be considered transient to *you*, but it's on my screen quite often as I poke around my library, looking for things I haven't quite filled in yet.

Wouldn't it be fun to have an MC convention so we could all see how the rest of use it.  I suggest Denver CO, you can all fly in....  Burgers at my house...

[Doof]

It's easy to adjust the width, but as I stated before, I like a stable view of MC so it always looks the same to me.  It's what I like....and I said it out loud, that's all.

I always used properties undocked, always, for the same reasons I'm been writing.

Now that playing now is there too, I really like that feature, but then it messes up my use of properties (without always fiddling with my screen setup).

Gotcha. I understand what you're saying now.

[gkerber]

I like your ideas.  I usually do.  We seem to think very much alike.  I bet you also believe very strongly in structured program design and internal and external documentation (anathema to many programmers).

LOL over and over.  I believe structured and object oriented programming are the same thing(in the bowels of the object, we're writing procedural code).  I comment extensively and write helpscreens for everything I write.  My co-workers have all learned to try the -h before asking me for help, and to pipe it to more...since they are very comprehensive.

Anything I do more than once, goes in to my C++ library for reuse.  People wonder how I can get things done so fast, and working, it's because of my extensive (documented) library of  objects.

I feel so exposed.....

[Doof]

Has it been so long since you used 9.0.xxx? The ability to just click the slider arrow (that thing on the right hand side of the program) and out comes a pre-sized properties window is sorely missed. Maybe not by you. But by enough people who aren't head over heels in love with the latest incarnation of it. It doesn't work in the same fashion as before. Regardless if you horizontally resize it.

No, it hasn't been that long. I just changed how I used it. Instead of clicking a little slider and having it slide left, I click a little slider and now it slides up. Without having to use the tree for navigation, I can even have it slide up far enough that I don't need to scroll.

Of course, all that's changed now, anyway. My vote's still uncast for the Action Window.

[gkerber]

Along a different route, perhaps when selecting properties from all the other places possible in MC (or some of them), the properties open in a separate window. Then, gkerber-type folks could simply ignore the fact that the Action Window can display properties and pensivemonkey-type folks can always use the properties in the Action Window.?

That would work for me... Very well as a matter of fact.  And hopefully for everyone else.

[MachineHead]

No, it hasn't been that long. I just changed how I used it. Instead of clicking a little slider and having it slide left, I click a little slider and now it slides up. Without having to use the tree for navigation, I can even have it slide up far enough that I don't need to scroll.

I didn't scroll then either. I used a smartlist to identify which files were incomplete or otherwise. Used the list to pick off single files that needed attention. Did scroll there however.

And with/if (there's that word) the current file properties handling (pick what fields etc. you want to see) could be implemented in its former state (right side) You could manage properties that much better. But I guess to each their own, huh? Of course, it's probably a moot point now.

I'm not so sure about the usefulness of an action window either. While it may have its strong points, it is very limited at what it can do at this point. Example: Why, or rather, will there be a way to customize what is showing in there? Why have a handheld when you don't have a handheld? Is it just me? Or does this seem a bit pointless to have that there when MC isn't connected to such a thing?

[MachineHead]

Thinking about this a bit. It's really not that much different than a bunch of toolbar buttons. The only exception of note would be viewing a playlist or something else as yet another minature pane. Somehow, there seems to be some redundancy involved here....

[sraymond]

Unless I am mistaken, all the "Action" items EXCEPT Properties are destinations.  Right?

If so, I'd agree that Properties doesn't belong.  Most models display properties in a separate pop-up window.  This would certainly work for the use case when a user wants to see the properties of a single file.  I also think it would extend well for the case when you want to keep the window open, "stayed on top", but unfocusable so that you can view the properties on other files without having to reselect a right-click Properties.

So...  count my vote as fully supporting a removal of Properties from the Action window (or "Dynamic Destination" or "Drop Destination") and putting it into the standard right-click Properties that opens in a new dialog box that stays on top until it's specifically closed.

Scott-

[Omni]

Now that does not make you my favorite person, noise is an antagonistic word, not necessary, okay?

I apologize.  You are right that my wording was poor.  I simply meant, "Since you are often the most vocal...."

Omni

[phelt]

Could someone please explain to me how the action window is better than the tree?

[phelt]

Hm. I guess I don't get the appeal.

Playing Now is smaller, has less info and displayed info doesn't appear to be customizable. Same for playlists. Images are no larger than the thumbnails I can already see. The properties functionality is pretty close to unusable compared to previous versions. The action picker seems to be another layer of navigation for things I already have elsewhere in the interface. Access to anything but Playing Now and the action picker requires more clicking than their counterparts in the rest of the interface. And it's all crammed into a bottom corner.

I know there's a lot of work yet to be done, as JimH and Matt have stated repeatedly. But with folks talking so much about it, to the point of suggesting that Properties be axed from its location, I thought I was missing out on something. Is there more to this that I am simply missing?

[Matt]

Changing Layout / Moving Properties

We like the idea of properties in the action window.  It's a clean way to provide extra information.  Popup windows ( version 8 ) or splitting the view into three columns ( version 9.0 ) aren't as nice in our opinion.  Even if you don't agree, it won't change this version.

However, if there are ways to switch pages more quickly or to use the space available more efficiently, please let us know and we'll see what we can do.

Why the Action Window has "appeal"

There was previously no way to see a playlist or Playing Now as you filled it with tracks. (you can drag-n-drop to the Action Window)

It also provides a cleaner, more graphical approach to burning a CD or uploading to handheld.

[DJ_Hazelwood]

For those who might be interested...

I am  


I like this idea. It would make the navigation much easier. I think it is better than the action picker, because you can reach things immediately with one click.

[zevele10]

Matt

It also provides a cleaner, more graphical approach to burning a CD or uploading to handheld.
-=-=-=-=-

I updated to 228 because of the burn new fonctions and because i understood that the Action Windows would be a kind of pop-up window when selecting songs to burn.

But the only indication i get is how much of the cd left/used.
There is a way to have as well the songs selected listed in the Action Window?

[jleerigby]

I like that too.  

I have no problem with using the properties pane in it's docked position, even at minimum width.  I find that it makes tagging music so much easier than other programs where you have to open up and close down a separate window each time want want to change the tags.

When I'm not tagging I'll probably use the action window to display Playing Now so I just want a quick way to toggle between these two.  I think that is what Matt is trying to achieve.

Pensive's pic looks good.  I assume that if you select info you get another set of icons or text for the different levels of properties (General, Audio etc).  A back button would be good (as NoCodeUK suggested) but this should probably go at the top with the home button - just home, forward and back would do it.  It would be nice to have back and forward at the bottom but I doubt there would be room.  Perhaps it would be possible to have 2 rows of buttons, I don't know?

[Marra]

I agree with Phelt's view
"The action picker seems to be another layer of navigation for things I already have elsewhere in the interface. "
We now have action picker, toolbars (top and bottom)
trees, panes .... no wonder some users are finding some things difficult.
My ideal would be to have one very effective toolbar across the top. This would include :
a) drop down list options for media library and playlists
for example media library option would drop down list just as it appears in tree
or
b)  better still create "extra" panes. For example
media library selected from tool bar
1st pane media type
2nd pane influenced by what media type selected
other panes adjust depending on selection example if
genre selected, panes reflect genre options etc

This removes my need for the tree completely.

And why can't the top tool bar incorporate the action picker?

Keep it simple, there seems to be options for options.

[jleerigby]

Marra, I think the changes you suggest are a little too radical given that they are near to releasing 9.1.  They have made it clear that the Action Window is here to stay and there won't be any major changes to this.  

Whilst I'm sure your views will be considered by JR in the long term I think we should all concentrate our efforts on coming up with ideas to improve the usability of the action window like grouping and navigation.

[nila]

I agree but for different reasons.


The action pane is great - as always  JRiver has come up with an idea that is hugely powerful and the finished product of it is WoW I think it has tons of power and gives MC yet another bump above the competition.


I dont like constantly having to change from properties, to this, to that, to that, back to properties, to playing now, to properties to tag, etc.
The problem is though that properties is something I want to be able to do all the time - just edit properties for a file then get rid of it - and currently this means changing out of whatever action window I'm in to properties then back again afterwards. As I hate having to change all the time I know I'll end up just leaving it on properties and never taking advantage of the other features here. There's too many features in one little space which means we constantly have to change between features.

I'd love to be able to set the action window to what I want and then just have the properties window appear when I need to use it and then get rid of it straight away too.

The BEST example of how something similar to this is in Photoshop - all its panels (History, Layers, Paths, Colours, etc) would all be one behind the other and hard to access and a pain to constantly change - as such they let you seperate whichever panels you want and group them seperately so you can have all the panels you use regularly appearing on screen together with the other panels connected to these. So for me for instance I have history as one panel, with layers as another - they're the two I use all the time - I dont have to bounce between panels a lot messing up my workflow.


I know I feel the same as machinehead here - I loved the old properties window on the right.
Right now - MC is GREAT to let us manage all our different media types - we can create as many new different fields as we want and use them - works amazingly - the problem is though this means my list of properties is HUGE and the little window just isn't up to scratch - the big old full screen one on the right gave me the power and space I needed.


I dont like undocked windows either - they just either fall behind the app and so are useless and have to be brought back into focus or they block something on the screen - again annoying.

I'd love to see the properties window with 3 modes:

• left - for everyone who loves it now
  
• undocked for those who like that
  
• Right - for those who want it with full size and power like it used to have - independant of the action window
  
  
  Just like with any part of MC and as we've seen with the panes - for those that didn't want a right Properties - they can just hide it
  
  
  

  http://www.pensivechimp.com/jrmc_aw.gif

  
  Nice - love the one click access to change screens.
  Also like the suggestions for back/forward buttons - speed up things too.
  
  
  One BIG request for the action panel though
  LIST TYPES!!
  If we could PLEASE have one page in the actions panel that would let us load up a single list type field like a single pane it'd be a BIG step towards letting us tag list types when not in media library.
  It'd be GREAT as I could have it set to:  Genre for instance when in playing now and could easily set this while I listened to songs.
  
  Even though it'd be limited to one list type this is better than none and would often be enough.
  
  Would anyone else find the ability to tag a single list type field at a time here a big help?

[gkerber]

I dont like constantly having to change from properties, to this, to that, to that, back to properties, to playing now, to properties to tag, etc.

Constant switching and messing up my screen layout is a drag.

I'd love to be able to set the action window to what I want and then just have the properties window appear when I need to use it and then get rid of it straight away too.

That is what I was suggesting, but Matt says it is not going to happen, so lets just drop this thread and let those that will use the Action Window help figure out a way to make it easier to use and switch.

I will keep the action window as an undocked window, always on properties and open/close it as needed.  The benefit gained from having the playing now showing, while pretty neat, is not enough for me to have to deal with a narrow properties and constant switching.

So basically, I don't use panes and I won't be using the new Action Window, it will look mostly like 9.0 for me, with lots of bug fixes over 9.0.

We all have different needs and they can't all be accomodated.  What I'll have and use is still pretty cool and VERY useful to me.

[nila]

I know

I'm just saying cause after 9.1 comes 10 lol.
Its not a show stopper for me or the biggest deal - I'm not impatient - just throwing up ideas for thought for future builds.


But List Types in the action window - that is a possibility for v9.1 and something I HOPE is added so I can start sortin my library nicely and putting all my songs into 'moods' - so I can sort them properly!

'Mood' needs to be a list type thou - and thats not really feasible from 'playing now' currently

[Doof]

just throwing up ideas

Ewwwwww......

[phelt]

For the current incarnation of the action window:
Might it be cleaner for the right-click menu within the pane to be limited to what's currently displayed? You can already choose the contents through the titlebar dropdown or the action picker. I would be comfortable with a right-click menu that related solely to that which is being right-clicked upon. (Or something like that in proper english )

It would be advantageous to me if the action window were vertically resizable - manually. I'm not a huge fan of auto-resizing windows or panes - they frequently turn out to be less helpful than intended.

A list of files queued for burning would be helpful, as would a disc capacity bar, or some display.

If I'm viewing Playing Now in the action window, then select files elsewhere in the interface and press Alt-Enter, the action window switches to <none>. A switch to the properties display would be welcome.

Note that I'm using 231 and some of this may have changed in the new build - hard for dial-up folks to stay totally current

For the distant MC future:
In a nutshell, I would like to the top pane be the action window.

[clout]

It would be advantageous to me if the action window were vertically resizable - manually. I'm not a huge fan of auto-resizing windows or panes - they frequently turn out to be less helpful than intended

.

I quite agree wiyh this.

Also I'd like to see the action window horizontally resizeable independant from the tree.
This would allow me to resize the playing now to show more fields, if we were allowed fields.

[Phil Lee]

I posted these comments on the action window in one of the beta threads. I thought they'd get lost so here they are again:

Initially I didn't like the Action Picker but then I realised I was using the Brushed Metal skin and I didn't have the home icon everyone was mentioning. Once I'd switched to PixOS it becamse obvious how things were working. I also edited the main.xml for Brushed Metal to enable the home icon but think I'll stick with PixOS during these developments.

I find the easiest way to use the action window is to have the action window toolbar button as the only button on the bottom toolbar. I can use this to toggle the window really quickly and think this should be the default toolbar arrangement with the other buttons back on the top toolbar where they belong.

The action picker shows six icons on my PC along with a scrollbar. The scrollbar doesn't work but suggests that there may be additional icons I'm not seeing. How many icons should there be in the action picker?

I'd also like to echo the request for a forward and back button on the action window. They would eliminate a lot of unnecessary clicks.

The drag and drop option for burn CD is nice but should show a list of the files like the playing now view does. There should also be a way to get to the main burn page using a button or link on the CD burn section of the action window to allow you to start burning quickly. You should also be able to clear the burn list from the action window.

If you click on the Handhelds icon in the action window and there are no handhelds connected you get an error dialog saying "no handhelds available" and the action picker goes blank. The action picker should not go blank under this circumstance, it should stay on the home page. The error message should probably have a capital n on the no but that's just me nit picking.

Moving on to the playing now section, it should update after each track has been played so that it shows the current file being played and the files in the queue to be played. It should also be possible to switch to the main playing now view using a button or link in the action window. It should also be possible to clear the playing now list from the action window. Finally it should be possible to access the options in the playing now right click menu from the action window. I would suggest doing this using the drop down menu on the right hand side. In fact I think the contents of this menu should change depending on what's shown in the action window.