Topic: DSD over DLNA (Read 15732 times)

PCH1155 · « **on:** September 21, 2016, 09:10:23 am »

First off, I want to say that thanks to all of you folks for the great input and advice, I have MC22 over DLNA running great. 99% of my files (mostly FLAC, etc.) sound wonderful. I have just a few DSD64 albums and I wanted to try it across my network:
- Is DSD possible over DLNA?
- I have two DLNA renderers (Oppo-105 and Marantz 5010 AVR), both handle the FLAC files fine.
- When I try DSD64, they either play horrible loud static (assuming native DSD that neither renderer handles)
- Or they both show that they are playing 176KHz Flac (assuming here that DSD64 was converted to PCM), after I check the MC box to allow DoP, but NO sound comes out. It appears to be playing but no output.

You've probably seen this before, so perhaps you may know the issue. I feel like I have something set wrong.
Thanks in advance for your help
Pat

JimH · « **Reply #1 on:** September 21, 2016, 09:58:03 am »

On the server side, under Media Network, you can tell MC not to convert.

Confirm that the devices you're playing to will play the format by connecting them directly (as a test), rather than via network.

PCH1155 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 21, 2016, 10:07:42 am »

Thanks Jim, will review the settings under Media Network.

Note: Both renderers play the files off of flashdrives connected to front USB ports just fine...although it appears that the Oppo is playing only as DoP, while the Marantz AVR is doing native DSD64. I don't care which one (format) for my purposes, just trying to get one to work.

blgentry · « **Reply #3 on:** September 21, 2016, 10:52:39 am »

Quote from: PCH1155 on September 21, 2016, 09:10:23 am

- I have two DLNA renderers (Oppo-105 and Marantz 5010 AVR), both handle the FLAC files fine.

As far as I can tell, the Oppo 105 does not do DSD over DLNA at all. In fact, it doesn't even accept DSD over USB from a computer. It will only play DSD from a USB thumb drive in it's front panel port. The 105D accepts DSD over a USB input from a computer. See a bunch of discussion here:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/oppo-bdp-105-d-finally-gets-dsd64-and-128-digital-analogue-converter-19008/

The Marantz 5010 appears to support DSD over DLNA, but only at single rate (DSD64). I have no experience with setting this up. But I think there's a relevant option you would need to configure in your DLNA profile for your target (Marantz):

Tools > Options > Media Network > Add or configure DLNA servers > (choose your profile) > Advanced > bitstream DSD

Here's a reference:

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DSD#DSD_Over_DLNA

Brian.

PCH1155 · « **Reply #4 on:** September 21, 2016, 11:30:21 am »

Brian,
Thanks again for your feedback. You are correct, of course, about the Oppo 105, but I actually have an Oppo 105D (should have been clear on that). I've never been successful in getting it to play the DSD64 files via rear USB from my PC. It only seems to work via thumbdrive, but that is another issue. Again, it appears to be playing the files as converted DoP, but no sound comes out, just MC track timer and indicators moving...frustrating. ?

As far as DSD over DLNA, I will continue to see if I can select the correct option in advance media network options to allow the Marantz AVR play it. So far no success. I was thinking I'd run the Whitebear software and perhaps that would give a clue.

RolandG · « **Reply #5 on:** September 21, 2016, 11:21:18 pm »

Quote from: blgentry on September 21, 2016, 10:52:39 am

As far as I can tell, the Oppo 105 does not do DSD over DLNA at all. In fact, it doesn't even accept DSD over USB from a computer.

I don't think so. I've been bitstreaming DSD files via DLNA from MC to my 105 since version 20.

blgentry · « **Reply #6 on:** September 22, 2016, 07:03:26 am »

^ How do you know you aren't sending PCM to your Oppo over DLNA?

Brian.

RolandG · « **Reply #7 on:** September 22, 2016, 07:45:22 am »

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DSD#DSD_Over_DLNA

Quote

Media Center also includes a full-featured DLNA Server which can be used to serve content to many professional-grade network-connected receivers and DACs, and can also act as a Digital Media Controller to remotely control your audio device. If you have a DAC that supports DoPE (the DLNA version of the DoP standard), Media Center can control the device and bitstream native DSD content directly to it over the network.

I might be confusing things here, but I'm bitstreaming stereo DSD files to my Aries Mini and multi-channel DSD files to my 105. Works in both instances and I can't see where a conversion to PCM would occur. Do you think MC converts to PCM when sending files to the 105, although bitstreaming is enabled?

Furthermore, pulling DSD files to the 105 with the OPPO app or via OSD from the NAS also works. This functionality has been added via firmware update a while ago, IIRC.

I will check tomorrow night.

blgentry · « **Reply #8 on:** September 22, 2016, 08:04:20 am »

Quote from: RolandG on September 22, 2016, 07:45:22 am

I might be confusing things here, but I'm bitstreaming stereo DSD files to my Aries Mini and multi-channel DSD files to my 105. Works in both instances and I can't see where a conversion to PCM would occur. Do you think MC converts to PCM when sending files to the 105, although bitstreaming is enabled?

This is all so complicated and confusing that people frequently think they are doing one thing, when in fact they are doing another. I mean no insult to you or anyone else. It's just that there are many many pieces of the puzzle and it's easy to miss one, especially with SO MANY different ways to do things!

For example, it's unclear what you mean about the Aries above. You simply say "bitstreaming", which (in the JRiver world) normally implies a direct wired connection via USB, optical or coaxial digital, etc. But I see, looking at the specs of the Aries, that it is mostly a network device. So you must mean that you are doing DSD over DLNA, as per the link above.

If you've enabled the bitstream DSD check box, and have stopped and started MC, then I would expect that MC is trying to send DSD via DOPe to your various DACs. But only if the appropriate DLNA profile is associated with your DLNA renderers. Otherwise, it might be using the default profile or some other one. See what I mean?

So this is why I ask how you are sure. If there's a front panel indicator or something similar, this would be the most affirmative way of knowing.

Brian.

PCH1155 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 22, 2016, 08:59:49 am »

My two cents: In agreement with Brian, I have corresponded with the Oppo folks on this many times, and they have stated that the Oppo 105D is not equipped to handle native DSD at all. It is supposed to handle DSD as DoP through the rear asynch USB port in 2 channel only (which, by the way, I have never gotten to work). It also plays DSD64 and DSD128 effectively as DoP from flashdrives (as mentioned previously). I was naively hoping that I could pass DSD64 via DoPE across my network, but it appears that doesn't fly.

I've turned my attention to my other DLNA renderer, the Marantz SR5010, which also plays DSD64 from a flashdrive just fine. It appears to be playing it as native, since it shows up as 2.8MHz on an info screen. However, still can't get that to work across DLNA either, so I think I just have wrong hardware. I am still going to do the Whitebear thing and take a look over the weekend. Thanks all.

RolandG · « **Reply #10 on:** September 22, 2016, 09:15:30 am »

https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-103/blu-ray-BDP-10x-Firmware.aspx

Quote

Main Version BDP10X-70-0218

Release Date: February 20, 2014

15. Added support for playing CUE files and DSD64 files (.DFF and .DSF) over DLNA. The DLNA server must support these formats as well. [...]

PCH1155 · « **Reply #11 on:** September 22, 2016, 10:21:06 am »

RolandG,
Thanks much for the info, although last I checked, I had latest firmware. I'll try the listed SourceForge update site to see if that solves anything. This would again be DSD DoP, but that's fine for me.

RolandG · « **Reply #12 on:** September 22, 2016, 01:06:53 pm »

Right now, I'm playing DSD files via JRemote to my 105. JRemote shows DSF as file type and the 105's display shows SACD. That looks like DSF over DLNA to me.

PCH1155 · « **Reply #13 on:** September 22, 2016, 04:10:39 pm »

Yep, totally agree. That is good news. If you don't mind, can you share your DLNA settings in MC? In other words, do you have the Bitstream DSD (requires DoPE compliant renderer) box checked or unchecked?
I'm just trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong. Thanks for your feedback.

RolandG · « **Reply #14 on:** September 23, 2016, 01:15:00 am »

"Bitstream DSD" is checked. As for the other settings, I'll have a look and post them here. Might be tomorrow, though.

pinokio · « **Reply #15 on:** December 14, 2016, 12:58:37 am »

Quote from: PCH1155 on September 22, 2016, 04:10:39 pm

Yep, totally agree. That is good news. If you don't mind, can you share your DLNA settings in MC? In other words, do you have the Bitstream DSD (requires DoPE compliant renderer) box checked or unchecked?
I'm just trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong. Thanks for your feedback.

I have same situation here with my Marantz sr7010. So i'm interested for DLNA settings that provide me Bitstream DSD to my marantz.

AndrewFG · « **Reply #16 on:** December 14, 2016, 03:19:29 am »

Quote from: pinokio on December 14, 2016, 12:58:37 am

.. i'm interested for DLNA settings that provide me Bitstream DSD to my marantz.

Please download the DMR Analyzer from my sig, run the renderer test, save the Renderer Report, and post the report on this thread.

pinokio · « **Reply #17 on:** December 14, 2016, 02:38:25 pm »

ok, here it is file.
hope, i done it as i should, because when i selected file types for manual testing (flac) i got nothing on the left side of tab Renderer Tests.

AndrewFG · « **Reply #18 on:** December 14, 2016, 03:03:03 pm »

^
Thanks for the report. It shows that your Marantz is highly performant for playing audio tracks via DLNA, going up to 24bit depth, 192kbps, and up to 8 channels. But it shows that the Marantz cannot play DSD / DSF formats. Therefore in the MC DLNA server settings you need to tell it to Always Convert to PCM L24 no header. This should give you incredibly good audio output.

EDIT: I just noticed that the renderer report is NOT for the Marantz but rather for MC itself. Therefore all the above statements apply to MC and NOT to Marantz

pinokio · « **Reply #19 on:** December 14, 2016, 03:57:28 pm »

Quote from: AndrewFG on December 14, 2016, 03:03:03 pm

^
Thanks for the report. It shows that your Marantz is highly performant for playing audio tracks via DLNA, going up to 24bit depth, 192kbps, and up to 8 channels. But it shows that the Marantz cannot play DSD / DSF formats. Therefore in the MC DLNA server settings you need to tell it to Always Convert to PCM L24 no header. This should give you incredibly good audio output.

I tried with L24 but my marantz show on display title, buffer level 100%, and start with time count, but no sound. When i changed to L16, sound come up from speakers.
So, no native DSD

Anyway, thank you!

AndrewFG · « **Reply #20 on:** December 15, 2016, 04:13:10 am »

Quote from: pinokio on December 14, 2016, 03:57:28 pm

I tried with L24 but my marantz show on display title, buffer level 100%, and start with time count, but no sound.
When i changed to L16, sound come up from speakers.

You should report this to Marantz. As you can see from the extract below, the Marantz does fully claim to support many variants of L24. And if in reality it does not play, then it is not fulfilling the claims of the manufacturer.

Perhaps before you make that report to Marantz, it would be worthwhile checking a few different variants of L24 with MC first. I suggest that you try pushing from MC in (say) L24 No Header with a sample rate of 44.1kHz and 2-channels, since this is very close to L16 at 44.1kHz and 2-channels (which works) with the only difference being the higher bit depth...

Quote

http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=22050;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=22050;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=22050;channels=4:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=22050;channels=6:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=22050;channels=8:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=32000;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=32000;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=32000;channels=4:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=32000;channels=6:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=32000;channels=8:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=44100;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=44100;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=44100;channels=4:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=44100;channels=6:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=44100;channels=8:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=48000;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=48000;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=48000;channels=4:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=48000;channels=6:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=48000;channels=8:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=88200;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=88200;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=88200;channels=4:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=88200;channels=6:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=88200;channels=8:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=96000;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=96000;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=96000;channels=4:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=96000;channels=6:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=96000;channels=8:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=176400;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=176400;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=176400;channels=4:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=176400;channels=6:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=176400;channels=8:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=192000;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=192000;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=192000;channels=4:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=192000;channels=6:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L24;rate=192000;channels=8:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM

EDIT: I just noticed that the renderer report is NOT for the Marantz but rather for MC itself. Therefore all the above statements apply to MC and NOT to Marantz

EDIT: over here http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,108403.0.html there is a guy who is getting his Marantz to successfully play 24-bit, 96-kbps, 2-ch

soulman · « **Reply #21 on:** July 03, 2017, 02:07:50 am »

I have not had any luck getting the MC 22 to serve DSD over DLNA. I have a few dsf files from a couple of SACD's ripped and it just shows as .wav files in my Oppo 203, but does not play any sound. Does anyone have pointers as to what settings to actually make?

DBronx · « **Reply #22 on:** July 04, 2017, 01:20:29 pm »

I am struggling with this issue myself... got it to work under MC21 to my Oppo 105D..but the upgrade wiped my settings and I can't get the Oppo to play music - just siilence. Tried Gizmo..same thing. Still trying different setting in MC

DBronx · « **Reply #23 on:** July 04, 2017, 01:35:10 pm »

Just got it working!!

Here are my settings in MC22:

Media Network > Add or Configure DLNA Server > Audio > Format > PCM L24 No header

Media Network > Add or Configure DLNA Server > Advanced > unchecked "Bitstream DSD..."

I'm playing a 2.882 MHz file and my Oppo is displaying SACD on its display.

soulman · « **Reply #24 on:** July 04, 2017, 02:51:43 pm »

Quote from: DBronx on July 04, 2017, 01:35:10 pm

Just got it working!!

Here are my settings in MC22:

Media Network > Add or Configure DLNA Server > Audio > Format > PCM L24 No header

Media Network > Add or Configure DLNA Server > Advanced > unchecked "Bitstream DSD..."

I'm playing a 2.882 MHz file and my Oppo is displaying SACD on its display.

Hi DBronx, I tried that and still could not get it working I have the following settings:
Tools>Options>Media Network>Audio Conversion>Don't convert Audio
Tools>Options>Media Network>Audio Conversion> Encoder> PCM 24 bit
Tools>Options>Media Network>Add or Configure DLNA>Audio> Mode >Original
Tools>Option>Media Network>Add or Cconfigure DLNA>Audio>Format>PCM L24 No header
Media Network > Add or Configure DLNA Server > Advanced > unchecked "Bitstream DSD

Still no joy on my Oppo 203

soulman · « **Reply #25 on:** July 05, 2017, 11:43:01 pm »

Yay! Finally got it to work

. After many settings attempts here are my settings to get DSD on the Oppo 203:

Tools> Options>Media Network> Audio Conversion>Conversion> Don't convert audio
Tools> Options>Media Network> Audio Conversion>Encoder> PCM 24 bit
Tools>Options>Media Network>Add or Configure DLNA>Audio> Mode >Original
Tools>Option>Media Network>Add or Cconfigure DLNA>Audio>Format>PCM L24 No header
Tools>Options>Media Network > Add or Configure DLNA Server > Advanced > unchecked "Bitstream DSD
Tools>Options>Media Network > Add or Configure DLNA Server > Advanced > DLNA
Tools>Options>Media Network > Add or Configure DLNA Server > Advanced > DLNA extra

That's all folks! Whew!

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: DSD over DLNA (Read 15732 times)