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[dmm]

I have a dedicated hometheater room that doubles as my 2.1 channel listening room.  I currently have a Onkyo AVR with pre outs to external amps.  I also have a Parasound 2100 2.1 channel preamp with a HT Bypass feature.  When the Parasound is powered up, internal relays automatically take over the signal coming from the AVR Front Left/Right Pre-outs and I can control the analog 2 channel switching between my DACS and my front power amps with volume control.  I biamp my front speakers with a DIY PLLXO (passive line level crossover) which is installed between the Parasound 2100 and my power amps.

Here is the signal chain:

7.1 Channel Listening (Onkyo performs source switching and volume control):
Video source (HDMI)->Onkyo AVR (preout)->PLLXO->Poweramps->biamp'ed front speakers (plus rest of the 7.1 speakers and subs)

2.1 Channel Listening (Parasound 2100 performs source switching and volume control)
HTPC running MC21 (USB DAC)->Parasound Preamp->PLLXO->Poweramps->biamp'ed speakers+sub

I use MC21 for my 2 channel listening.  I would like to purchase a USB multichannel dac such as the Focusrite 6i6 that has been mentioned in these forums and implement the following (MC21 performs volume control and music streaming):
HTPC running MC21 (USB DAC)->Poweramps->biamp'ed speakers+sub

This would have several possible advantages, such as removing the Parasound and PLLXO devices from the chain and potentially improving the SQ by implementing those functions in MC21.

I don't have the Focusrite 6i6 yet, but I have been testing some with MC21 and built in realtek sound card on my motherboard.  Here are some questions I have:

1.  Is the Focusrite 6i6 ASIO fully multi client?  I will need to use it to take the Pre-out from my AVR via one of it's inputs as well as use it to output to my power amps.

2.  Not shown in my description above, but I also have a minidsp 2x4 device for my subs to implement bass EQ in my room.  I could use additional ports on the Focusrite 6i6 to take the LFE in and output the EQ'ed sub signal as well with MC21.  Are there issues with Focusrite ASIO and MC21 processing the 2 channel signal and simultaneously the LFE signal as well.  (essentially becoming a 2.1 processor).

3.  I have been playing with the MC Open Live.. function to implement a HT Bypass like function.  I can manually start the Open Live.. and start to see the ASIO sound come into MC21.  How can I automate Open Live to start whenever MC is running?

4.  How can I use zoneswitch to make sure that whenever there is sound coming in from the AVR Pre-outs to the Focusrite input (monitored by Open Live) that that signal takes precedence and the rest of the zones are muted.  In my testing I have found that the switching from playing MC music sources vs Open Live is not always recognized and is not automatic.  I have to manually start and stop the music to get the zone to switch.

5.  I will have three main zones or functions for MC to implement via zoneswitch.
 
HT Bypass zone:  AVR Pre-out to Focusrite input to Open Live on MC.  Presence of sound here should take priority over all other playing sources. [Filename]=[live:////asio]

MC playback zone: Playing music from my MC library out the Focusrite channels to my power amps. 

Spotify Playback zone: Playing music on the same PC that has MC.  Using the WDM driver to pass the spotify music thru MC out to the Focusrite channels to my power amps.  [Name]="IPC"

Does anyone have comments or suggestions on how best to setup the zones for these features?

[dmm]

And one more question, more specifically on the Focusrite 6i6 USB device. 

Reading thru the manual, it supports LINE and INST level on the inputs and outputs.  A PAD settings is also available.  The LINE and INST setting changes the level and impedance of the in/out.

Which one is suitable for plugging in a unbalanced consumer level audio device (using the appropriate 1/4" to RCA jack adapter)?

[dmm]

I continue with my testing.  I am playing with MCC core commands to assist in resetting configurations between playing "HT Bypass" and "Local Play".  The Local Play (zone index 0) is for MC and Spotify.  The HT Bypass (zone index 1) is for when I want the Onkyo pre out Open Live ASIO audio to pass thru.

Some useful mcc commands are explained in the jpg attachment.

I have created some .bat files to simplify the switching. 

Here is the HT_Bypass.bat file:
REM stop and mute local play zone 0
mc21.exe /mcc 10011,0
mc21.exe /mcc 10017,1
mc21.exe /mcc 10002,0:0
mc21.exe /mcc 25014, 0

REM setup ht bypass zone 1
mc21.exe /mcc 10011,1
mc21.exe /mcc 10017,2
mc21.exe /mcc 10020,100:1

REM 993713801 is the playlist ID for an Open Live ASIO "file" on my system.  This ID# will be different for each user.
mc21.exe /mcc 30007,993713801
mc21.exe /mcc 10001,0:1

Here is the Local_Play.bat file:

REM stop and mute HT_Bypass zone 1
mc21.exe /mcc 10011,1
mc21.exe /mcc 10017,1
mc21.exe /mcc 10002,0:1
mc21.exe /mcc 25014, 0

REM setup local play zone 0
mc21.exe /mcc 10011,0
mc21.exe /mcc 10017,2
mc21.exe /mcc 10020,50:0

[dmm]

I should add that I continue my testing with my built in motherboard audio.  I have not purchased the Focusrite 6i6 USB audio DAC as of yet.  I am encountering some issues with ASIO4ALL and my realtek motherboard audio.

Can anyone confirm that with the Focusrite ASIO drivers you can both Open Live INPUT and media center OUTPUT to the same device simultaneously?  I have seen postings on INTERACT that state you need two separate audio interfaces for doing input and output.  So I am confused if Focusrite's ASIO drivers are multi client and if they work in MC for simultaneous input/output.

[mattkhan]

IIRC you need to use https://www.steinberg.de/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=48 to enable multiclient use on the focusrite 6i6, I have a 1st gen 6i6 so can test it at the weekend if you like (however the driver is different to the 2nd gen so no guarantee the results will be the same).

What do you plan to use the asio input for btw? it's not obvious from the thread

[dmm]

The Open Live ASIO in function will be used to simulate "Home Theater Bypass" or HT Bypass where the Onkyo AVR Pre-Out audio will be routed thru MC for 7.1 movie watching. 

I have already installed the steinberg multi client app you referenced and tested it with my motherboard audio and asio4all.  It seems somewhat unstable and crashes alot on my system.  I have set all of the sample rates on my inputs and outputs to be the same.  Of course with true ASIO drivers from Focusrite, it might be much more stable or possibly unnecessary.

And yes, if you could do some testing on my behalf that would be much appreciated. 

[mattkhan]

the 6i6 only has 2 analogue inputs though so how would you route 7.1 preouts through it?

[dmm]

Only left and right channels are routed thru MC.  The remaining 5.1 (sides, backs, subs) do not go thru MC and are routed from the Onkyo AVR direct to the speakers.  In this way, I can listen to 2 channel left/right sound thru MC with all of its glory and when listening to 7.1 movies the front left/right sound passes thru MC at a fixed volume level so that the Onkyo can volume control all 7.1 channels.

[mattkhan]

I don't think that will work well, if it works at al). Firstly I doubt you will have sufficient delay capability in the onkyo to compensate for the latency through jriver and secondly, if you can get it quick enough, you have 2 different clocks in play so they will drift over time.

[dmm]

Thank you for the comments.

You bring up a good point on the overall delay of the front left/right (going thru jriver) vs the rest of the surround speakers (straight thru via the AVR).  I was hoping that using ASIO and also by the fact that in HT Bypass mode I will not be applying any processing via MC to the signal that the delay will be manageable and only attributed to the delay of going from the Open Live in (via ASIO) and then straight out thru the MC playback engine.

Doing some searching thru Interact based on your comment I see that MC has several buffer settings that can impact latency.  Other users have reported numbers around 25ms of latency thru MC.  With sound traveling about 1 ft/ms in air, 25ms looks to be about 25 ft of delay error.  You are correct that that would be difficult to deal with vs the non-MC routed channels.  I may need to rethink by approach prior to purchasing the focusrite.

As far as the different clocks.  I am less concerned about that.  Clock drift would be significant if it was between channels within the same speaker, if I were to drive the tweeter and woofer off of different derived DAC clocks.  However, I don't think clock drift between front left and right vs the surround channels would be significant enough to cause noticeable phase issues between the channels.

thank you for your feedback.

[mattkhan]

it depends whether the drift follows a random walk or whether it has a bias in one direction, if there is a bias then you will have a problem. Generally speaking I don't think people find this works reliably but results may vary. IME 25ms is optimistic when using jriver loopback, it is heavily dependent on the precise hardware/OS setup though.

[dmm]

mattkhan, I want to thank you for taking the time to educate me and respond. 

I am going to shift my strategy based on what I have learned here.  I am going to continue down the path of playing my 2 channel music via jriver directly out from the HTPC connected DAC.  However, I am going to purchase a ADC analog to SPDIF converter and toslink switching matrix with IR remote control to implement the HT bypass function.  I have a harmony remote so the additional IR commands and switching will be somewhat seamless once setup.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00J2BR9DY/
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZCJFC8E/

The signal chain will look like this:

7.1 Channel Listening (Onkyo performs source switching and volume control):
Video source (HDMI)->Onkyo AVR (preout)-> ADC Converter -> TOSLINK Switcher -> DAC -> PLLXO->Poweramps->biamp'ed front speakers (plus rest of the 7.1 speakers and subs)

2 Channel Listening (HTPC/JRiver performs volume control):
HTPC running MC21-> TOSLINK Switcher -> DAC -> PLLXO->Poweramps->biamp'ed speakers

This way the HT Bypass feature is implemented in hardware ADC and TOSLINK switching and should have minimal latency while still allowing me to TOSLINK switch to my HTPC for 2 channel listening.  Also the cost is low, about $45 to try this configuration out.

[dmm]

For anyone still following my journey.....Here is an update.

I did get the Amazon.com linked toslink switch and analog audio to toslink ADC adapter linked above.  However, the ADC adapter does not have any level adjustment and what appears to be limited dynamic range.  So it was difficult to get the output gain from the preouts of my AVR dialin so that I could get a good low noise low hiss output out of the ADC.

I went ahead and purchased the Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 USB device.  The Scarlett has line/instrument adjustment as well as 50db of gain knob adjustment on input 1 and 2.  So far I have been testing but it looks like I will be more successful with the Scarlett.  I got this helpful email from Focusrite support:

Thank you for your email.

Let me walk you through the steps I would take to set this up properly.

First off I would always begin by getting the Output stage working, meaning connecting the Scarlett's rear Monitor Outputs to your Parasound HCA-1000A and getting your basic iTunes running cleanly.

This is an area where gain staging of the knobs will matter, though this is not recorded to the track, it is important to quality listening.

First connect your Red/White RCA Leads from the Scarlett's Outputs, keeping 1 Left and 2 Right, to the Parasound R/L Inputs at set the switch here to Stereo.

You can try calibrating things by first turning the volume on the Parasound all the way down, then setting the Monitor Knob on the Scarlett around 75%, leaving some headroom.

Play some basic audio such as iTunes, and turn up the speakers to a strong listening volume, balancing both knobs on the rear of the Parasound. Then you can adjust further during listening using the Scarlett's Monitor Knob.

Next to get the inputs set up being with the Gain Knobs down and switches set to Line.

Plug the Pre-Out Front of the Onyko TX-SR707 AVR to the Scarlett's Inputs, keep Left in Input 1 of the Scarlett and Right in Input 2.

Play some basic audio such as your Receivers radio, or other Input and look for signal on the Scarlett's Halos.

Slowly raise both Gain Knobs until you have a solid green halo, with no red clipping.

Unity Gain for a balanced signal is around half way up, or 12 o'clock so I would expect with an unbalanced receiver Pre-Out you might need to go up further than this, such as to 3 o'clock, but it will also depend on the level of the Input going to the receiver.  For example a modern loud TV show from HDMI could be much louder than a feed coming from a turntable with some older music that would not be mastered as hot.

In Focusrite Control you would want to then choose the best routing for your needs.

If you wish to monitor through the DAW, so you only hear what is recorded, try File > Routing Presets > System Playback.

If you want to hear the Live Inputs via Focusrite Control, hearing the signal before it goes to the DAW, try File > Routing Presets > 2 Channel Analog.

Then in your DAW set up your Stereo Track to record Input 1/2.

Keep in mind to never use a Microphone with the output Pre-Amp, the Parasound, turned up, as this could lead to a nasty feedback loop.

Please let me know how you come along.

If this doesn't solve your issues, please let us know so that we can help you further.
Best Regards,
Focusrite Technical Support

[dmm]

To continue on, to implement the "HT Bypass" function, I am using autohotkey utility to map some keyclicks to macros that will load different Focusrite Control "snapshots".  Snapshots are presets of different input/output routing configurations on the Focusrite control software app.  I can then use my Harmony remote to active a HT Bypass configuration to route the Onkyo AVR preouts thru the Scarlett INPUT 1/2 to SPDIF OUT.  When I want to listen to jriver media center music I can load music_mode snapshot which routes DAW (aka audio pc running jriver) 1/2 to the SPDIF OUT.

The Scarlett USB audio device has a spec of 2.7ms of latency delay.  So when direct routing the HT Bypass audio signals thru the device I am not seeing any lip sync issues.  I recognize that this adds an additional AD/DA step to my HT Bypass listening setup.  However for my more critical music listening this setup bypasses my AVR and preamp entirely and my listening chain is jriver -> focusrite scarlett SPDIF out -> DAC -> PLLXO -> poweramps -> speakers.

I run macro F9 to make sure that the focusrite control software is running.  Then send a "ctrl-o" key to bring up the focusrite load snapshot dialog box, then send F2 or F3 to load HT Bypass or Music Mode routing.  Here is what the (keyclick F2, F3, F9) macros look like:

F2::
Macro4:
WinWait, ahk_class #32770
Sleep, 2000
ControlSetText, Edit1, ht_bypass.ff, ahk_class #32770
Sleep, 2000
SendInput, !o
Return

F3::
Macro5:
WinWait, ahk_class #32770
Sleep, 2000
ControlSetText, Edit1, music_mode.ff, ahk_class #32770
Sleep, 2000
SendInput, !o
Return

F9::
Macro1:
Run, C:\Program Files\Focusrite\Focusrite Control\Focusrite_Control.exe
Sleep, 4000
WinActivate, Focusrite Control
Sleep, 1000
Return