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[tyler69]

hi there,

my problem is that when watching movies, voices are way quiter than effects (i have a 2.0 setup). I try to fix that and fiddle around with the options. however, "Move center to front l/r" is greyed out. Can anybody please chime on on why this is greyed out / what the best practice for achieving a normailized volume on downconverting is?

another question: am i correct to assume that the frequency in the subwoofer dropdown should be >= the lowest frequency my speakers go (if i want to have the subwoofer signal downconverted)? What does "Downmix all frequencies (not recommended)" do? Does this all frequencies coming through the .1 channel? If so, to what?

thanks.

[Matt]

That option only applies if you're doing mixing to 5.1 or higher.

[tyler69]

thanks.
sorry for my ignorance, but why? wouldn't that be a possibility to remove the "low-center-volume-on-2.0-setups" problem?

[tyler69]

a minor gui blopper:
1. select a channel layout that does make the option "Move center to front l/r" available
2. check "Move center to front l/r"
3. select a channel layout that does make the option "Move center to front l/r" unavailable
-> "Move center to front l/r" becomes greyed out but stays checked. should probably be unchecked as this might surrogate to the user that this functionality is being used.

[tyler69]

i played around with "parametric equalizer->adjust the volume->center" and i tried "room correction->center volume". while its shown in the audio path window, neither does seem to have an effect on the sound/volume. am i missing something?

[PGibby]

Are you using JRSS Downmixing?

If you are, you are in the same boat as me then. My DAC is an older Sonic Frontiers SFD2 Mk2, so it doesn't decode dolby or 5.1, etc. Its just straight 2-ch 16/48khz. My whole system is 2ch.....geared mainly for music.

This means that JRSS downmixing is my only option. For most movies, its fine. There are a few where I would like to have the center volume boosted ever so slightly...like a db or 2.

I've requested the ability to boost center channel volume while using JRSS mixing in the Feature Requests thread. I think a few other people have too.

There's probably some technical reason this is difficult, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to know.

[tyler69]

yes i do, but there is no other option available (besides "no downmixing")? so that means that when using jrss mixing, the dsp options (e.g. parametric equalizer) are not applicable?

[PGibby]

Ha, yup...same boat then.

Parametric equalizer still works, but it runs into an issue when boosting channels that aren't left or right. "Center" when using JRSS downmixing doesn't exist, basically...because its already downmixed to 2ch.

What we need is a way to manipulate individual channels in multichannel BEFORE it is downmixed. As far as I know, that's not available right now.

[tyler69]

bump

[tyler69]

bump

[PGibby]

I'd be interested if there is a way to make this work as well, still.

[tyler69]

bump

[tyler69]

bump.

[RoderickGI]

I have a need to do something similar to the result you are looking for; Boost dialogue in movies.

But in my case, I want to do it on a HTPC 5.1 system, and most often with stereo sources, so I am Up Mixing. The problem is similar to a stereo system though.

You will have noticed in the Audio Path that the only changes made to the audio before the conversion (down mixing) of a 5.1 channel source to a 2 channel output are volume adjustments. All Parametric Equaliser, Room Correction, Clip Protection etc. are applied after the Down Mixing. Which means you can't add the Centre channel to Left and Right, because the Centre channel no longer exists. Adding it adds nothing. In fact the Centre, Subwoofer, and Surround channels have already been added to Left and Right via Down Mixing.

If you just want better clarity in dialogue, you can try selecting "Night Mode" under "Adaptive Volume" in the DSP Studio. That does improve dialogue, but it flattens all audio, so I don't particularly like using the solution all the time. Try Night Mode though, and see if it does what you want.

The best solution, I think, is to boost the frequencies of dialogue in the movie, using the Parametric Equaliser. On my Workstation stereo system, playing a 5.1 version of "The Matrix", boosting 100 and 1000 Hz by +20dB makes a considerable difference. But that is a crude adjustment. Night Mode has a larger effect. One day I will get around to asking the experts around here what the best adjustments to make would be. It may also be necessary to use Zones and Zoneswitch to apply any DSP adjustments selectively to different sources.

Anyway, play around and see what you can achieve.

[Hendrik]

sorry for my ignorance, but why? wouldn't that be a possibility to remove the "low-center-volume-on-2.0-setups" problem?

The option makes no sense if the center is already being moved to front l/r, because where else would the center go if those are the only speakers available to you? We don't just drop a channel.

[tyler69]

thanks hendrik.
in my case i can't "move center to fron l/r" since i have a 2.0 system. i guess we have to differentiate between the actual physical loudspeaker setup (e.g. 5.1) and the options in mc (e.g. 5.1) in order to not confuse things.
my ignorant question was based on the question that if mc recognizes the media played back as a 5.1 source and i have a 2.0 layout set in DSP options, why won't mc "boost" the center when downmixing to 2.0?
i was of the impression that the "move center to fron l/r" option would do that. so if i understand correctly this option only works if one has a center channel in his loudspeaker layout (physical), right?

nonetheless i think it should be possible to apply dsp to a downmixed audio stream. i think that might be not trivial, but wouldn't it be possible to apply dsp before downmixing?

You will have noticed in the Audio Path that the only changes made to the audio before the conversion (down mixing) of a 5.1 channel source to a 2 channel output are volume adjustments. All Parametric Equaliser, Room Correction, Clip Protection etc. are applied after the Down Mixing. Which means you can't add the Centre channel to Left and Right, because the Centre channel no longer exists. Adding it adds nothing. In fact the Centre, Subwoofer, and Surround channels have already been added to Left and Right via Down Mixing.

thanks, that cleares it up and is d'ac­cord with my interpretation above i guess.

If you just want better clarity in dialogue, you can try selecting "Night Mode" under "Adaptive Volume" in the DSP Studio. That does improve dialogue, but it flattens all audio, so I don't particularly like using the solution all the time. Try Night Mode though, and see if it does what you want.

The best solution, I think, is to boost the frequencies of dialogue in the movie, using the Parametric Equaliser. On my Workstation stereo system, playing a 5.1 version of "The Matrix", boosting 100 and 1000 Hz by +20dB makes a considerable difference. But that is a crude adjustment. Night Mode has a larger effect. One day I will get around to asking the experts around here what the best adjustments to make would be. It may also be necessary to use Zones and Zoneswitch to apply any DSP adjustments selectively to different sources.

Anyway, play around and see what you can achieve.

i'm not sure this works since playing around with the dsp options did not have an effect. i'll try that out, thanks.

[mattkhan]

You can implement your own downmix in DSP studio if you don't like the jriver implementation. Just use peq blocks as you see fit.

[tyler69]

thanks for the suggestion. i do not think that "just" fiddling around with eq parameters (never read/heard of peq blocks before) in order to get a consistent volume throughout the downmixed channels should be mc's solution to this. after all i don't seem to be the only one here that experiences this problem.
also i do think that this won't even work at all when using a 2.0 layout (see previous posts). there should be an easy way for the user (since as we know, mc is not designed for power users only). in the lav settings it's possible to change center, surround and lfe levels when mixing if i'm not mistaken, why not in mc (presuming this settings in lav do exactly what my inquiry is. even if it's doing something different, the three sliders represent an easy way to manipulate the channles vs. using peq blocks in my opinion)?!

[RoderickGI]

i think that might be not trivial, but wouldn't it be possible to apply dsp before downmixing?

This is what I understood you wanted to do, but it isn't possible at the moment.

Looking at it again though, I can't see any real reason why downmixing couldn't be done after other adjustments, and ordered (sequenced) in the Parametric Equalizer as are other filters. Hendrik, would it be possible to add the "JRSS Mixing" solution as a filter in the Parametric Equalizer? That way users wouldn't have to work out their own downmixing parameters, and downmixing could be sequenced after the centre, or other, channels have been adjusted. In this case, boosting the centre before downmixing.



Tyler, did you try Night Mode? It is applied before the downmixing, so it has a significant effect.

Adjusting the volume of specific frequencies happens after the downmixing, but it also definitely works and has an effect.