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Author Topic: Automated Genre Tagging (preferably using AMG)?  (Read 4660 times)

jaxtherogue

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Automated Genre Tagging (preferably using AMG)?
« on: May 24, 2017, 06:42:20 am »

I think I know the answer but thought I would ask: is anybody aware of an automated tool for genre tagging- something that preferably uses a high quality source like Allmusic?  I know such a tool would not be free and am willing to pay for access to the Allmusic database.  I was a Roon subscriber and its integration with the Allmusic database is great, but it only serves as a layer on top of your files and won't actually put that data into your tags.

Any leads would be appreciated!
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mattkhan

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Re: Automated Genre Tagging (preferably using AMG)?
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2017, 08:12:43 am »

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blgentry

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Re: Automated Genre Tagging (preferably using AMG)?
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2017, 08:27:43 am »

This of course opens the question of who is correct about Genres?  ..and is Genre the single tag that you want to classify your music with in terms of it's style or type?

Allmusic and Discogs both use a two level system of Genre and Style or Genre and Sub-genre.  But these two sources rarely agree on anything.  Try a few albums you know and see what these sources say.  Here's an album I know: The Cure, Seventeen Seconds

Allmusic says it is Pop/Rock with styles of Alternative/Indie Rock, Goth-Rock, and Post Punk.
http://www.allmusic.com/album/seventeen-seconds-mw0000194817

Discogs says it is Electronic, Rock with Styles of New Wave and Post Punk
https://www.discogs.com/The-Cure-Seventeen-Seconds/master/20278

Who's right?  Do you agree with either one?

This subject is so confusing that I've only categorized a small portion of my collection.  You can blindly believe one source or the other, or have your own opinion. 

Brian.
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jaxtherogue

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Re: Automated Genre Tagging (preferably using AMG)?
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2017, 09:23:08 am »

It's a fair point. I had decided I would just go with allmusic's determination and use the styles as multiple sub-genres. I might not always agree, but if there is some consistent classification then it's better than the utter confusion my library is in now.  I've never really used genres because it's such a mess and thought maybe if it's not a mess i might use them. Probably a lost cause, I know.

I use discogs for tracking my vinyl collection and find the classifications there to be less useful than allmusic. YMMV, of course.

Funnily enough, one of the reasons this biennial fire has been lit beneath me was so I could sort out all of my goth/goth-like albums to make a playlist for my son! Spooky that you chose The Cure in your example.
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jaxtherogue

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Re: Automated Genre Tagging (preferably using AMG)?
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2017, 09:23:27 am »

https://www.blisshq.com/ is one option (see https://www.blisshq.com/music-library-management-blog/2017/04/04/incoming-tag-correction/ for some details, not sure what data source it uses)

thanks for the tip. I will take a look!
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ferday

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Re: Automated Genre Tagging (preferably using AMG)?
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2017, 12:27:34 am »

just because i'm obsessive about this i can't help but chime in

i've been using a system of very broad genres, with another system of subgenres that are somewhat broad themselves.

for example i have the Cure as
rock
goth; new wave; sad

my sub genres are in checkbox (list) format so they are pretty easy to slap onto an album.  the advantage as i see it is i can search a lot of different ways, and get cool mixes of different styles by selecting "goth" i'll get some electronic, pop, and metal in with the Cure, but adding "new wave" i pretty much just get the Cure, Siouxsie, etc.

anyways point is i agree with blgentry and i personally have no interest in any source telling me what genre or sub genre any of my collection is.   good luck and have some fun with it.  i'm about 70% done my collection now and i'm happy i've gone through the process as it's a very personal categorisation

and finally if you do use a program and it's returning good results, post it here!
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jaxtherogue

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Re: Automated Genre Tagging (preferably using AMG)?
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2017, 09:13:27 am »

I do get not trusting other sources, but part of the point in my wanting to use AMG's genres/styles/moods is so then I can use their website to match music in my own library.  If both my library and their database use the same methodology then that congruity not only helps manage my own library but enables a new level of discovery with their vast database. I may not always be in agreement about what they might say, but we would at least be speaking the same language.

It's still a pipe dream though- cleaning up my own genres is a task I am finding overwhelming.
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blgentry

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Re: Automated Genre Tagging (preferably using AMG)?
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2017, 11:02:08 am »

AMG's data has a license associated with it.  If you're just looking at it, it's one thing.  If you're trying to harvest that data to match against your collection it's another.  For personal use, I think this is allowed.  I think AMG will give you a key that let's you do automated queries against their database.

There's an MC tool written by MrC called MCUtils.  Do a search and you'll see it in the forums.  I believe it has AMG query capabilities.  But it's use is sticky.  First it takes a bit of setup and learning in order to use the tool.  Second, there is the "problem" of trying to identify what exactly you are looking up.  What I mean is, even a unique combination of Artist Name and Album name can easily return non-unique results.  Because there are many versions of some albums.

Thus this tool is extremely difficult to automate.  It's really not the tool that's the problem.  It's really about the complexity of data matching from one side to the other.

I've *almost* given up on genres.  Almost!  This might re-awaken my desire to populate my own Genres and Styles in my collection.

Brian.
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jaxtherogue

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Re: Automated Genre Tagging (preferably using AMG)?
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2017, 10:34:48 am »

MrC's MCUtils works great! Not quite automatic as one must look up AMG unique ids, but still a big time saver / carpal tunnel preventative.

Thanks to MrC and blgentry!
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