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Author Topic: What monitors should I buy?  (Read 5064 times)

robertisonline

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What monitors should I buy?
« on: June 17, 2017, 05:41:05 pm »

I’m thinking about buying a pair of AudioEngine's A5+ powered monitor or one better. If anyone has been impressed by a monitor that is one step higher than the A5+ (or other monitors in that price range $400-500) please share your experience!

Also, I have never owned anything other than active monitors and just don’t have enough working knowledge in that area to make a sound decision. Any and all information about the passive world of monitors would be super helpful in my buying decision.

My subject line: what monitors should I buy? Obviously that significantly depends on the acoustical space and environment. Based on that, the A5+ is a realistic reference point for the sound for which I am looking.

Thanks,

Robert
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blgentry

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Re: What monitors should I buy?
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2017, 06:41:57 pm »

I've never heard the audio engine series of speakers.  I've also never heard the Emotiva Airmotiv speakers.  But the airmotivs get really high praise from professional reviewers and consumers alike. 

https://emotiva.com/products/emotiva-pro/powered-monitors-0

In particular, the Air Motion Transformer tweeter is supposed to be a really interesting mix of detail without fatigue.

Brian.
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Listener

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Re: What monitors should I buy?
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2017, 12:12:21 pm »

I’m thinking about buying a pair of AudioEngine's A5+ powered monitor or one better. If anyone has been impressed by a monitor that is one step higher than the A5+ (or other monitors in that price range $400-500) please share your experience!

Also, I have never owned anything other than active monitors and just don’t have enough working knowledge in that area to make a sound decision. Any and all information about the passive world of monitors would be super helpful in my buying decision.

My subject line: what monitors should I buy? Obviously that significantly depends on the acoustical space and environment. Based on that, the A5+ is a realistic reference point for the sound for which I am looking.


Audioengine's web site has  links to a number of reviews.

I used Audioengine A5 speakers in our home office for about 9 years before passing them to my wife.  I now use Audioengine HD6 speakers. 

I have large 3-way active speakers in  another room.  Each speaker has two 12 inch woofers.  Very dynamic and uncolored speakers but I never feel deprived listening to either pair of Audioengine speakers.

I may replace the larger active speakers with something smaller and simpler.  The alternatives I'm considering include Genelec M040, Dynaudio LYD7 , Emotiva Stealth 8 and the new JBL 705P monitors.  Those alternatives are in the $ 1300 to $ 2000 / pair range.

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DarkPenguin

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Re: What monitors should I buy?
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2017, 12:16:19 pm »

z reviews seemed to like these ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToPpEWlCF6A
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Blu99Zoomer

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Re: What monitors should I buy?
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2017, 09:54:56 am »

"What monitors should I buy?" would certainly be effected by the other equipment and room setup that you are using, no?  I have been using Emotiva Airmotiv 5's for several years now quite happily in my computer room.  I have used several dac's with them.  I have used single ended as well as balanced cables also.  They are a rear ported speaker though.  So they need a little room to breathe behind them to reach their full potential.  But I have seen and listened to a pair of Harbeth 40.2 in a near field setup that was truely amazing with a Vinnie Rossi LIO.  So your budget, room, and other equipment will be important in this decision.  Try to listen, with your own ears, to anything that you want to consider.  In home tryouts are good also.  Have fun.

Best Regards,

Blu99Zoomer
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blgentry

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Re: What monitors should I buy?
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2017, 04:48:14 pm »

^ I'm curious about your impressions of the Airmotiv 5s.  Would you mind giving a mini review?  Or just some overall idea about the sound?  I'm concerned that the tweeter might be too bright for me, but I'm not sure.  I've never heard any of the Airmotiv series.

Thanks,

Brian.
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Blu99Zoomer

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Re: What monitors should I buy?
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2017, 03:50:55 pm »

Hi Brian,

I don't know that I am able to do justice to your request.  Do you have any specific questions besides the concern for the tweeter being too bright for you?
 
The Emotiva 5 speakers that I have are the original versions.  They are 50 watt per speaker active speakers.  They have a folded ribbon tweeter and a 5" mid range/woofer.  They stand 10.75" tall, 7" wide, and 8.25" deep, approximately.  I have the tweeters set at ear level, about three to three and a half feet from my ears, toed in aimed just behind my head while I am sitting in my chair comfortably.  The room is 9.5 feet square with a 7.5 foot ceiling.  The rear port is located at the top of the rear panel.  Also located there are an RCA and an XLR line input, LF and HF adjustments(which I have set at the 0 setting for both adjustments on both speakers), and a power plug for which you could supply your own PC(My experience has only been with the supplied power cords).

I am a bit old school when it comes to speaker design.  Smaller speaker, less bass.  Bigger cabinet, bigger speakers, bigger more complete full sound.  I prefer floor standers in my main listening room for their nice full range sound, though I have heard some amazing stand mounts.  But I was not exposed to near field listening until more recently.  I mean I have listened to music through earphones since college in the mid 70's.  But the more out of your head experience of near field listening seems to be a nice and preferred blend of the two to me.  Now, all that I had learned about my speaker preferences went out the window when I heard my first 1.7 Magnepan speakers driven by McIntosh gear.  Oh my!!  The clarity and the "you are there" sound was a watershed moment for me.  I like attending live music played in a small venue.  Sitting only several feet from an acoustic performer is a good way to know what an intrument or a voice sounds like.  I happened to see a young woman sing live, bought some of her music, then heard it played over the above Magnepan/McIntosh setup two days later.  Well, in choosing a speaker for my near field setup, I was looking for the clarity of the Maggies.  Their smaller near fields had not come out then.  I had read a nice review on CNET by Steve Guttenberg of the Emotiva Airmotiv 4 speakers.  What he said about the speakers said to me that I should try them.  But I wanted bass, not just the high's clarity that the folded ribbon tweeter design provides.  Again, similiar to a Maggie's clarity.  On their bass, when my son then in his mid thirties first heard the Airmotiv 5 speakers in my computer room from the other end of the house he said,"Wow Dad!  Those speakers have plenty of good solid, tight bass."  I have to agree.  Emotiva, at least then, allowed a thirty day in home trial.  They didn't go back.

I have listened to the Emotivas with 2 channel music and while watching movies, thanks to JRiver.  I have a few DSD selections.  But most of my collection is ripped cd's.  I enjoy most genres of music.  Of late I listen to more classical and jazz.  The Emotivas will play loud if I want to use them for background wandering around the house or for feeling the rumble of a bass sound in a movie sound track.  One of my favorite cd's is Fink and The Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra Live in Concert from Ninja Tune 2013 ZENCD201.  Here you have the three man group playing with a full orchestra as "backup" on many tracks.  There are also several tracks of the concert orchestra playing by itself.  One of the latter, "The Infernal Machine" makes full use of the sounds that each orchestra intrument and player  can manifest.  It reminds me of a nightmare I wish I had never had and could forget.  But it's music conducted and played very well.  Fink's drummer said something like that while recording for the first time with the orchestra, his impression of the difference in sound between their normal band playing and when the orchestra kicks in was like the difference in power between a Toyota Carolla and and a 747.  Again, I agree.  The Emotivas make me want to listen to more music.  I smile while listening.  I hear the pluck of a guitar string and know that it is a guitar string being plucked.  Another piece I enjoy listening to is Cecile McLorin Salvant's Woman Child chart.  She has a tight band behind her.  She annuciates her words while singing almost like she is singing into your ear on this work.  Intimately sung and the Emotivas get it all for me.  Her tongue rubbing her teeth, her lips changing shape, the puff of her breathing.  I have some Sara Bareilles, Bob Dylan, and Jack Johnson in high rez download that I like to listen to as well.  The Emotivas make that fun for as long as I care or have time to listen.

If I haven't spoken to your question Brian, please say so.  As I said, I have had these speakers for several years, have heard a few others, and am happy with my choice. 

Best Regards,

Gregg
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blgentry

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Re: What monitors should I buy?
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2017, 06:12:45 am »

Thanks for the writeup Gregg.  Planar speakers like Magnepans have their own "magic sound" that can be very seductive.  I'll never forget hearing my first pair of Quad Electrostats.  Or the second.  The Quads were really magic.

Are you saying that the Airmotiv 5s have a little bit of that planar magic sound?  Or just providing a reference point for what you think good sound is?  For that matter, would you compare the Airmotiv 5 sound to any other speakers you have heard?

I also know what you mean about the nearfield effect.   It's pretty shocking when you first hear a good nearfield setup to experience the extreme separation of instruments that you normally only get from high end speakers with good gear driving them.  Maybe that's the comparison you were making with planar speakers...

I'm surprised that a young person would think that 5.25" mid woofers had "lots of bass" because most young music lovers are bass heads.  But that's good to know.  My current desktop setup has a 10" subwoofer (passive) and I play to use either a 10" or 12" self amplified subwoofer in my new desktop setup.  So I should have good bass reproduction.  But it's always nice when the main speakers can produce good bass on their own.  Makes for a good integration.

Thanks again.

Brian.
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Blu99Zoomer

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Re: What monitors should I buy?
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2017, 01:24:36 pm »

Brian,

I am not getting the lowest of bass sounds out of these Airmotiv 5s.  What they produce is nicely controlled though.  They are not a full range speaker.  Nor are they marketed as such.  Their specs say they go down to around 50Hz.  So I agree with you that a sub would add just that much more.  I would like to hear the Maggie desk top with sub panel some day.  I have heard the Adam Audio version of the Airmotiv once at a Guitar Center store.  It kicks!  It would make an acceptable alternative for me.  I have not heard the Audioengines.  They certainly have a following on the Internet.  I also listened to an old set of passive AR speakers here prior to the Emotivas.  The Emotivas won that one.

I do believe that for my ears at least the folded ribbon tweeter does have that planar magic that I don't hear with cone speakers.  My Mr. Speaker Ether's do as well in the headphone vein.  Yes I was trying to provide a point of reference when I referred to what I had heard from the Magnepan's.  I like the clarity and accuracy from mid to treble that I hear through the Airmotivs and the Maggies.  The Airmotivs do human voice and acoustic intruments well and with accuracy like the Maggies.  I am listening to one of the Pizzarelli's works.  His voice is a higher register than say Chris Stapleton's for instance.  I like hearing the difference.  I like being able to tell the difference in sounds when a tuba and a euphonium are playing in a piece.  The shimmer and ping of a ride cymbal and brushes on a snare.  A muted trumpet as a foil to a female voice in a blues number.  I believe that I am hearing it the way I should be, compared to live music.  I would like to get more depth to the sound field.  But can I expect to get that with the hard flat wide surface of a monitor in the middle of the field?  The Harbeth/LIO near field setup that I mentioned was not hampered with a monitor.  It was set up several feet from back and side walls. The front of my monitors are maybe four to six inches in front of the monitor plane.  The tweeters fall about at the top of the monitor's frame.  I might try moving my desk more toward the center of the room to see if that would make a noticable difference, because of the rear porting in sound field depth next.

I believe that my son's comments reflect his limited critical listening experiences.  But in all fairness, he sang in several choirs, shows, and bands and venues in the United States and Europe growing up.  I have to respect what he says about music.  The Emotivas do play well for small desktop speakers.  I have tried them out in the main listening area once.  I prefer them close.

With regards a seperate sub, how do you control the handoff from mains to sub?  Do you think one sub would be better than two in the near field environment?  The Maggie set up is designed for it.  Matching would take some listening in your setup, no?

Happy listening.  I hope our discussion is helping the OP.

Best Regards,

Gregg

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blgentry

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Re: What monitors should I buy?
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2017, 04:29:55 pm »

With regards a seperate sub, how do you control the handoff from mains to sub?  Do you think one sub would be better than two in the near field environment?  The Maggie set up is designed for it.  Matching would take some listening in your setup, no?

The "handoff" to the sub could just be a Y cable sending the signal to both the desktop speakers and to the sub at the same time.  You could get more sophisticated with an external crossover network.  Or with a 4 channel sound card and using JRiver MC to do the crossover.  I would probably just use a Y cable, at least for a start.

I do think that one sub is fine for nearfield.  Especially with the size of my listening room right now.   I might feel differently if my desk was in a 24 x 14 foot room.  But it's not; it's much smaller.

Certainly getting the levels correct would take listening and tweaking.  My current setup uses a passive subwoofer.  It is powered by the same receiver that powers the main speakers and has high pass and low pass crossovers built in to it's cabinet.  But this system was designed for mid-field listening (normal living room distance).  So listening to it with the mains 2 feet from my head means that the tweeters are WAY overly bright and the bass is about right, or maybe just a little too high.  Again because of the distances involved.

So, I have developed a parametric EQ profile using JRiver that tries to correct all of those problems.  I think I've done a pretty darned good job.  The difference is enormous and the corrected version sounds worlds better to me.  ...and I'm the only one listening to this system, so I'm a good measure of success.  :)

I might feel like I needed to do something similar to the Airmotiv + powered sub setup.  The good news is, JRiver makes it easy and I know the method now.

Hint for anyone thinking about doing this:  Using JRiver's shelving filters is much more powerful for overall "sonic sculpting" than parametric EQ bands.  Parametric EQ can be added as well, but the big thing to do when you have large sonic problems is to start big and use shelving filters.  I've had numerous successes using this method in the past year.

Thanks again for the discussion Gregg.  I also hope that the OP is getting something out of our discussion in his thread.

Brian.
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Blu99Zoomer

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Re: What monitors should I buy?
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2017, 10:56:57 am »

Your humility is only exceeded by your JR shadow Brian. ;)    I certainly am grateful for your involvement here on the JR Forum.  Your comments usually are well thought out and knowlegdeable. I also appreciate your infusion of humor in your responses.  "...and I'm the only one listening to this system, so I'm a good measure of success." gave me a good, spontaneous chuckle.  Thanks for that. 

I have not much experience with subs and EQ.  I have a pair of Tekton Design Enzos in my main listening setup.  When I inquired of Eric their designer and builder if I might see an improvement in bass if I changed to the Enzo XL (which has a pair of larger bass speakers in their cabinets), he suggested that I would do well to get a sub.  If a designer builder would recommend a sub over a much more expensive speaker, there must be some truth to including subs in your "What monitor should I buy?" decision process. 

I would enjoy more information on the "shelving filters" that you mentioned Brian.  That's a topic for a different post though.  Guess I have some research to do. 

Best Regards,

Gregg
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blgentry

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Re: What monitors should I buy?
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2017, 02:59:15 pm »

Thanks Gregg.

I might write a post on how I use shelving filters.

Take care,

Brian.
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drmimosa

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Re: What monitors should I buy?
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2017, 09:29:14 pm »

I can recommend JBL LSR305. Very smooth and detailed mids and highs. Decent output at 65 hertz, and extension down to 40.

Brian, would love to read your post on using shelving filters when you get a chance.

Cheers,

Phil
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blgentry

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Re: What monitors should I buy?
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2017, 04:36:05 pm »

I've written a post about shelving filters.  If you'd like to read it, it's in the Windows MC 23 forum, here:

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,111261.0.html

Brian.
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