Topic: MC 23 for QNAP NAS (TS-253A) (Read 16758 times)

kanagowa · « **on:** July 09, 2017, 08:08:25 am »

Hello,
I bought a master licence for MC22 and now upgraded to MC23.
I bought a QNAP NAS (TS-253A) and would like to install JRiver MC23 on it.
QNAP says that it's compatible with JRiver, and it's installed natively. Ok but there no way to update the version from de admin interface on the NAS.
Please could you help me to install my MC23 on the NAS ?

astromo · « **Reply #1 on:** July 10, 2017, 12:53:56 am »

As far as I know, this is the latest Qnap package for MC:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,108418.0.html
but currently the package is off line:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,108418.msg769106.html#msg769106

If there's a plan for Qnap MC 23, then I've not seen mention of it (as yet).

sjhilton · « **Reply #2 on:** July 10, 2017, 06:49:32 am »

I use the 'dockerised' unofficial version on my qnap using the container station app. The instructions etc are here: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=109810.0. I haven't used the official version that I understand runs through the HD station app (you need a monitor connected etc). Hope that helps.

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kanagowa · « **Reply #3 on:** August 02, 2017, 09:17:00 am »

Thanks for your help.
I'll try that. Hopefully it will work.

bob · « **Reply #4 on:** August 28, 2017, 04:04:31 pm »

It looks like the dockerized build will the the only way to run MC 23.
We were using a old version of GCC that created builds that worked with the QNAP which is based on Ubuntu 14 but the code has changed enough in MC 23 for it to not be practical to use that old compiler going forward.

Scobie · « **Reply #5 on:** September 05, 2017, 01:54:25 am »

It's been suggested previously that a good solution for JRiver on QNAP would be to just stand up a Linux VM and run the standard Linux release on that.

In terms of updates and supportability would that be a better option than using a dockerisd version?

Thanks

Scobie

astromo · « **Reply #6 on:** September 05, 2017, 04:52:01 pm »

Quote from: Scobie on September 05, 2017, 01:54:25 am

It's been suggested previously that a good solution for JRiver on QNAP would be to just stand up a Linux VM and run the standard Linux release on that.

In terms of updates and supportability would that be a better option than using a dockerisd version?

Thanks

Scobie

... and I was one of those voices.

Working via the VM route simply offers an alternative, user flexibility and the power to make setup decisions. I can't speak with authority on the docker option but you can dictate platform and installed version via the VM path.

However, with that you may be presented with bumps in the road to negotiate and you're taking the lead. If you'd prefer to be more hands off, then a docker installation offers probable advantage in avoiding stress.

Scobie · « **Reply #7 on:** September 05, 2017, 05:59:50 pm »

Quote from: astromo on September 05, 2017, 04:52:01 pm

... and I was one of those voices.

Working via the VM route simply offers an alternative, user flexibility and the power to make setup decisions. I can't speak with authority on the docker option but you can dictate platform and installed version via the VM path.

However, with that you may be presented with bumps in the road to negotiate and you're taking the lead. If you'd prefer to be more hands off, then a docker installation offers probable advantage in avoiding stress.

Thanks Astromo, I've got no problem with tweaking the setup as necessary if it allows me a more standard JR experience, and I imagine there would not be much difference in terms of throughput between VM, Docker or native Linux so performance should not be an issue. I will give a dedicated VM a try I think as the app - even with Bob's great maintenance - has proved a bit unstable. In any case if I want to go to MC23 I need to do something different anyway.

Do you have any recommended specs for a dedicated Linux VM? Is Debian the best choice for MC?

Thanks to all.

Scobie

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Scobie · « **Reply #8 on:** September 05, 2017, 11:43:21 pm »

Quote

Is Debian the best choice for MC

Looks likely:

Quote

Media Center 23 for Linux is developed on Debian Wheezy/Jessie 32-bit and Debian Jessie/Stretch 64-bit - support for distros other than Wheezy/Jessie 32-bit and Jessie/Stretch 64-bit, like Ubuntu, Mint and Elementary OS are not officially supported!

astromo · « **Reply #9 on:** September 06, 2017, 03:51:13 am »

Good work on searching out the answer for yourself.

I've got the Qnap pkg/app loaded on my NAS, so I've not tried running MC on the VM. That said, given that the qpkg is stuck at MC22, I reckon I'll load MC23 onto the VM. I've used Ubuntu there. So, we'll see how that goes.

astromo · « **Reply #10 on:** September 07, 2017, 04:09:13 pm »

Quote from: astromo on September 06, 2017, 03:51:13 am

Good work on searching out the answer for yourself.

I've got the Qnap pkg/app loaded on my NAS, so I've not tried running MC on the VM. That said, given that the qpkg is stuck at MC22, I reckon I'll load MC23 onto the VM. I've used Ubuntu there. So, we'll see how that goes.

Quick update. I've loaded Linux MC23 x64 Build 21 onto an Ubuntu 17.04 zesty VM (spec'd to use 4GB - I've got 16GB loaded onto a Qnap 653 Pro). Initial test of pulling audio from the NAS as server to a client instance of MC23 Windows indicates that systems are go. Benchmark returns the lowly score of 746, so video might be "fun". I don't have the qpkg JRMark to hand to compare.

I'll see how this goes but there's some initial proof of concept for those interested.

EDIT:
The MC22 latest build JRMark came in at 1198 for me. So, that would appear to offer a better response.

No worry for me anyway as I'd typically only use MC on the NAS to serve audio. Round the home, my central install of MC uses samba (treating the NAS as a network drive) to pull video in. Works fine.

Scobie · « **Reply #11 on:** September 07, 2017, 05:02:37 pm »

Nice one, be interested to see how it goes. I've got the MC22 package running so will benchmark that if I can for a comparison.

Be keen to see if lossless Audio , flac in particular, works reliably.

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JimH · « **Reply #12 on:** September 07, 2017, 06:30:54 pm »

Quote from: Scobie on September 07, 2017, 05:02:37 pm

Nice one, be interested to see how it goes. I've got the MC22 package running so will benchmark that if I can for a comparison.
...
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Scobie · « **Reply #13 on:** September 07, 2017, 06:36:23 pm »

Will do.

Scobie · « **Reply #14 on:** September 14, 2017, 11:26:44 pm »

I've installed the latest build of Debian on my QNAP TS-453mini. I've given the VM 2Gb and the QNAP has 8GB on board.

Apart from moaning about video acceleration - I think that is standard for a virtual Linux host - all went well. Also a tip for anyone trying this, don't go with the default install as it will select the wrong build location; use the "expert" mode and select the full kernel. if you don't you get the dreaded "Booting from Hard disk..." hang on startup.

On this I have installed MC23 for Linux. Only performed some high level testing so far (time constraints, down the pecking order for the TV etc...) but so far the signs are positive. DLNA streaming to my CXR120 (lossless audio) and Sony Blu-Ray (video) appear to be working fine. The real test will be when i load it up a little and make it work a bit harder. But so far so good.

Scobie

bob · « **Reply #15 on:** September 15, 2017, 07:54:29 am »

Quote from: Scobie on September 14, 2017, 11:26:44 pm

I've installed the latest build of Debian on my QNAP TS-453mini. I've given the VM 2Gb and the QNAP has 8GB on board.

Apart from moaning about video acceleration - I think that is standard for a virtual Linux host - all went well. Also a tip for anyone trying this, don't go with the default install as it will select the wrong build location; use the "expert" mode and select the full kernel. if you don't you get the dreaded "Booting from Hard disk..." hang on startup.

On this I have installed MC23 for Linux. Only performed some high level testing so far (time constraints, down the pecking order for the TV etc...) but so far the signs are positive. DLNA streaming to my CXR120 (lossless audio) and Sony Blu-Ray (video) appear to be working fine. The real test will be when i load it up a little and make it work a bit harder. But so far so good.

Scobie

Thanks for the update!

Scobie · « **Reply #16 on:** October 02, 2017, 06:01:24 pm »

Status re running MC23 on a Debian VM;

Haven't watched a lot of video but streaming FLAC to the CXR works no problem at all. The videos that I have watched has also been pretty good.

Also the MC23 on Debian seems a lot more robust than the QNAP app that would (in my case anyway) tend to crash / unload fairly regularly. I haven't experienced that as yet on this new setup, whether that is due to the underlying framework or MC23 vs MC22 not sure, but going well.

Afrosheen · « **Reply #17 on:** October 19, 2017, 04:58:47 pm »

Any consideration to have MC for QNAP developed as a qpkg?

Hendrik · « **Reply #18 on:** October 19, 2017, 05:10:12 pm »

The OS running on QNAP is too old (or at least, the libraries it provides), so as MC moves forward its unfortunately no longer possible to provide a plain package. You can still run it through a Docker container, or any other VM-based solutions, as suggested earlier in this thread.

Scobie · « **Reply #19 on:** November 27, 2017, 04:07:25 pm »

A tip for anyone wanting to try the Visualization Station VM option (this will be old news to some), make sure your Video Type is not set to Cirrus.

For me it did this by default and it resulted in very poor performance and high CPU.

I'd advise changing it to QXL, which works much better and allows access to the virtual machine session through QVM which is a lot easier.

astromo · « **Reply #20 on:** November 28, 2017, 03:40:11 pm »

Quote from: Scobie on November 27, 2017, 04:07:25 pm

A tip for anyone wanting to try the Visualization Station VM option (this will be old news to some), make sure your Video Type is not set to Cirrus.

For me it did this by default and it resulted in very poor performance and high CPU.

I'd advise changing it to QXL, which works much better and allows access to the virtual machine session through QVM which is a lot easier.

Blissfully ignorant to this but could explain why my VM posted a low JR Benchmark. Thanks for the tip.

Scobie · « **Reply #21 on:** November 28, 2017, 06:51:06 pm »

Also assigning the Virtual Machine to the QVM (made possible by using QXL as mentioned above) enables the use of the Spice Client to view the virtual machine which is also pretty handy.

https://www.qnap.com/en/how-to/tutorial/article/how-to-use-the-spice-client-virt-viewer-to-connect-to-a-vm-console

laser · « **Reply #22 on:** July 18, 2018, 03:50:06 am »

I'm looking for to play SACD ISO multi-channel on QNAP + JRiver, can this be done with VM through HDMI?

Regards,
Laser

Quote from: Scobie on September 14, 2017, 11:26:44 pm

I've installed the latest build of Debian on my QNAP TS-453mini. I've given the VM 2Gb and the QNAP has 8GB on board.

Apart from moaning about video acceleration - I think that is standard for a virtual Linux host - all went well. Also a tip for anyone trying this, don't go with the default install as it will select the wrong build location; use the "expert" mode and select the full kernel. if you don't you get the dreaded "Booting from Hard disk..." hang on startup.

On this I have installed MC23 for Linux. Only performed some high level testing so far (time constraints, down the pecking order for the TV etc...) but so far the signs are positive. DLNA streaming to my CXR120 (lossless audio) and Sony Blu-Ray (video) appear to be working fine. The real test will be when i load it up a little and make it work a bit harder. But so far so good.

Scobie

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #23 on:** July 18, 2018, 04:37:12 am »

DSD doesn't work on a PC (this would also include a NAS) through HDMI. Only over USB (native+DoP) and DLNA (DoPE).

laser · « **Reply #24 on:** July 18, 2018, 05:16:17 pm »

Quote from: Awesome Donkey on July 18, 2018, 04:37:12 am

DSD doesn't work on a PC (this would also include a NAS) through HDMI. Only over USB (native+DoP) and DLNA (DoPE).

I found your common on another thread -- Native DSD playback (without DoP) with MC is only currently supported on Windows.
I did not aware MC on Linux has such difference.

Back to the original question, what if running Windows version on QNAP VM? Can it do native DSD over hdmi? can MC control device driver to do everything need?

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #25 on:** July 19, 2018, 03:44:57 am »

MC24 on Linux supports native DSD playback too. But DoP *is* native DSD playback too - the end result is exactly the same.

Again, you can't do DSD over HDMI on a computer whether it be a Windows PC, a Mac, a Linux box, a Raspberry Pi, a VM, etc. You can only do DSD from a computer via USB to a DSD-capable DAC/receiver (if the DAC/receiver supports this - not all do) or via DLNA via DoPE (again if your DAC/receiver supports it - not all do). Why? Because no GPUs on a PC (whether it be onboard GPU from Intel/Nvidia/AMD, a dedicated GPU like a Nvidia GPU or a AMD GPU or whatever else with a HDMI port) doesn't support DSD and doesn't support DSD over HDMI.

DSD over HDMI only works when connecting a supported player (like an Oppo or something like that, that can play SACD discs) connected to a receiver like a Marantz, if both support DSD over HDMI.

Some good posts on this subject (it's been brought up multiple times before): https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=96197.0 and https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=103173.0

laser · « **Reply #26 on:** July 19, 2018, 07:34:42 pm »

Quote from: Awesome Donkey on July 19, 2018, 03:44:57 am

MC24 on Linux supports native DSD playback too. But DoP *is* native DSD playback too - the end result is exactly the same.

Again, you can't do DSD over HDMI on a computer whether it be a Windows PC, a Mac, a Linux box, a Raspberry Pi, a VM, etc. You can only do DSD from a computer via USB to a DSD-capable DAC/receiver (if the DAC/receiver supports this - not all do) or via DLNA via DoPE (again if your DAC/receiver supports it - not all do). Why? Because no GPUs on a PC (whether it be onboard GPU from Intel/Nvidia/AMD, a dedicated GPU like a Nvidia GPU or a AMD GPU or whatever else with a HDMI port) doesn't support DSD and doesn't support DSD over HDMI.

DSD over HDMI only works when connecting a supported player (like an Oppo or something like that, that can play SACD discs) connected to a receiver like a Marantz, if both support DSD over HDMI.

Some good posts on this subject (it's been brought up multiple times before): https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=96197.0 and https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=103173.0

Hi A-Donkey,

Thanks for share the links and detail explaination. and it seems like the thing did not get improved after 2 years or so.
So the SOC on Raspberrypi do not able to do the same thing like OppO's BDP?

So for a pre/pro only support DSD multi-channel through HDMI, the only solution is go for OppO + DLNA or USB disk on OppO? Do you agree?

Regards,
Laser

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #27 on:** July 20, 2018, 06:42:21 am »

Quote from: laser on July 19, 2018, 07:34:42 pm

and it seems like the thing did not get improved after 2 years or so.

I doubt it won't anytime soon, if ever. I don't believe Nvidia, AMD or Intel are remotely interested in adding DSD support to their drivers. I don't think we'll ever see DSD over HDMI supported from a computer. In addition there's also probably licensing costs involved if they did.

Not sure if an Oppo would work, unless it says it explicitly say it supports DSD over HDMI to a receiver like a Marantz. Also if the Oppo supports SACD-Rs (burned SACD ISO images to DVD-Rs) you might be able to burn discs and play them that way from a player like an Oppo through a receiver (bypassing the need for a computer, but relying on physical discs). For a computer though the easiest, most straightforward way to do it is likely with a DSD-capable USB DAC. But I have no experience with players like Oppo or receivers (since I have no use for them), nor DoP over DLNA.

laser · « **Reply #28 on:** July 20, 2018, 11:56:22 am »

Quote from: Awesome Donkey on July 20, 2018, 06:42:21 am

I doubt it won't anytime soon, if ever. I don't believe Nvidia, AMD or Intel are remotely interested in adding DSD support to their drivers. I don't think we'll ever see DSD over HDMI supported from a computer. In addition there's also probably licensing costs involved if they did.

Not sure if an Oppo would work, unless it says it explicitly say it supports DSD over HDMI to a receiver like a Marantz. Also if the Oppo supports SACD-Rs (burned SACD veISO images to DVD-Rs) you might be able to burn discs and play them that way from a player like an Oppo through a receiver (bypassing the need for a computer, but relying on physical discs). For a computer though the easiest, most straightforward way to do it is likely with a DSD-capable USB DAC. But I have no experience with players like Oppo or receivers (since I have no use for them), nor DoP over DLNA.

HI A-Donkey,

For multi-channel to go through USB, that means the audio need be converted to analog then input to AVR. Then again convert to digital for DSP to do Audeyssey sort of process. This looks like a bad way to use AVR.
Disk-less player is getting more popular these days and more content scribe from Internet, multi-channel over DLNA is going to be a must support feature for player and AVR. If SACD MC is the only spec with problem to play with its original hi-res, then its more like SACD MC will be give up by the market.

Regards,
Laser

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