Topic: I'm a little upset.. Ok.. aLOT upset... (Read 5913 times)

Gnarly_Gnome · « **on:** July 01, 2003, 11:51:22 am »

I just purchased an Ipod, 30gb version.

I've been a Media Jukebox user since March of this year.

Of course I'm looking forward to using my new Ipod with MJ.. SURPRISE! There is no Ipod plugin for MJ.. and there doesn't appear to be one in the works.

If I dont' want to use Musicmatch, it seems I'll have to upgradge to MC.

Here comes the next shocker.. Even though I just payed $30 for my MJ license less than 4 months ago, I still have to pay $20 for the UPGRADE to MC. To make matters worse, people who purchased before 12-02 get the upgrade free??? WTF??

I'm sure MC is a great program.. and will be happy to test it out for the trial period.. I'm having second and third thoughts about purchasing it when the trial is over..

I guess I just wanted vent some..

Is there anyone at J River who can explain to me, why they want MORE money out of me, than they do from someone who purchased MJ a mear 3 months before I did?

Wobbley · « **Reply #1 on:** July 01, 2003, 12:10:04 pm »

I agree. Be patient, and I am sure that J River will address your issue to your liking.

Gnarly_Gnome · « **Reply #2 on:** July 01, 2003, 04:29:36 pm »

retrospek · « **Reply #3 on:** July 01, 2003, 04:56:01 pm »

To be fair - you had the option of purchasing Media Centre but you chose Media Jukebox.

Whereas, when I paid for MJ the MC version did not exist so I couldn't make that decision.

JRiver were considerate in allowing existing user to switch to MC for free. But you are a new user so why should they offer you an MC upgrade for free ?

When (if) they upgrade Media Jukebox then you will probably find you will get a free upgrade to the new MJ version.

Whereas, I expect when MC becomes version 10 I shall now have to pay for the upgrade.

I'm not saying this is right - but it's just the way it happened. To be honest I don't know why they don't just scrap this MC/MJ idea and instead have one basic product (reasonably priced), but charge for the additional plug-ins that you want to use (maybe $5 per plug-in).

Mark.

Gnarly_Gnome · « **Reply #4 on:** July 01, 2003, 05:05:20 pm »

to be fair.. MC was NOT avaliable when I purchased MJ.

I distinctly remember a "comming soon" announcment concerning MC.. and maybe a beta product available for download.. but nothing about MC.. maybe I just missed it somehow...

anyway.. I don't see why the iPod isn't supported in MJ, and why it seems development on MJ has stopped... MJ has support for other handhelds.. even other jukeboxes..

Phil Lee · « **Reply #5 on:** July 02, 2003, 01:16:41 am »

MC9 has been available in beta form since August or September last year. If I remember correctly it has been on sale since January this year.

sraymond · « **Reply #6 on:** July 02, 2003, 06:37:35 am »

I don't think MC was around last September... although the beta version of "MJ9" was. Wasn't the switch from Jukebox to Center made around the first of the year? I bought the $25 version 9 license back in November or December.

Here's something to consider: People hate having to pay for upgrades, especially when they were on the table when they purchased the previous version.

But the other side: If you were happy paying for a previous version, why would you be entitled to an upgrade?

Question: Is JRiver supporting both MJ and MC? If so, why would someone think they're entitled to an "upgrade" to a different product? It's like an owner of Adobe Photoshop Elements 2.0 wanting an upgrade path to Adobe Photoshop 7.0

Another point to consider: It is usually the onus of the purchasers to do "due diligence" research into the products they purchase. Caveat Emptor and all.

Of, and a final "case in point": I was getting ready to buy Sonic Stylus Studio - an XML development environment that costs about $400. There is a new beta version in the works. Prior to purchasing, I called and sent an e-mail asking what the upgrade path was. I certainly didn't want to pay the advertised $250 upgrade fee when I knew the new product was in the pipeline (though pricing was not available, it was thought to sell for about the same price as the previous version). The moral of the story: I got an e-mail from the Director of Sales saying he couldn't answer my question (the upgrade paths hadn't been determined yet), but he gave me his personal guarantee that I'd get the new version free of charge. Now that's CUSTOMER SERVICE!

I think JRiver treated the upgrade path quite fairly when I purchased back in November/December. I don't know if they did it to increase the number of beta testers (I thought it quite "strange" that I was paying to be a beta tester!), or to keep interest in the new product high. In either case, it's been quite a rewarding experience - $25 certainly well spent.

I'd suggest JRiver try to continue an "economical" upgrade path and do right by people who purchased a lesster product by mistake, though in good faith. What's the harm in crediting a buyer his MJ8 purchase cost towards an MC9 license? Maybe I'm missing something...

Scott-

kiwi · « **Reply #7 on:** July 02, 2003, 07:02:58 am »

My understanding is that you get most of your purchase price of MJ toward MC? Isn't that the way it works? (please correct me if I'm wrong.)

So it costs you an extra $3-5 or something. That's the price you pay for not getting the 9.0 version in the first place. Plus, if people spent the time they spend bitching about the $3-5 difference, working, most would probably easily make $3 in that time.

Gnarly_Gnome · « **Reply #8 on:** July 02, 2003, 09:22:48 am »

It's not $3-5.. it's another 19.95 on top of the $25 I already spent.. so I get 3-5 bucks CREDIT for being a previous owner..

Anyway.. it doesn't matter. It's obvious by now that nobody at J River is going to sound off on this matter or someone would have jumped in by now.

So I'm left to decide if I can live with Musicmatch (YUCK), use Ephplay or buy Xplay for $30 or buy MC for $20. It really levels the playing field.

sraymond · « **Reply #9 on:** July 02, 2003, 10:05:19 am »

Gnarley,

I'm starting to get a bit confused. I thought you bought MJ8 for $25 and now are faced with an "upgrade" to MC9 for $20. Yet the purchase prices of MC9 straight-away is $40. This would mean you're paying an extra $5 ($25+$20 minus $40) because you "made a mistake" in purchasing the wrong product.

My question to JRiver would be: will you credit me the $25 I paid for MJ8 (less than four months ago) towards the purchase of MC9 at $40? If they say no, you've lost five dollars ('cause you can still upgrade for $20) - hardly earth-shattering! I'm not saying that I wouldn't be disappointed they didn't "do right by me" for a measly $5... but it certainly wouldn't be worth my time to argue about it for more than 15 minutes (based on my hourly wage). Sure, there's principle and all...

Scott-

Gnarly_Gnome · « **Reply #10 on:** July 03, 2003, 05:11:31 am »

BTW: MC9 was not available until MAY of this year.. I still have the email from JRiver announcing it's release. It is dated 5-16-03.

I also have the original MJ8 install file I downloaded. The file creation date on my system shows I downloaded it in December of last year. Of course I used the 30 day trial version for 30 days..I didn't need the "Plus" functions for a while so I didn't upgrade until I did.. by then it was March..

You're right. it's not about the money at this point. It's that I feel ripped off, because someone who purchased the same exact program I did, only 3 months earlier gets the MC upgrade for FREE.. where I have to pay an additional $19.95..

NoCodeUK · « **Reply #11 on:** July 03, 2003, 05:17:35 am »

Don't wanna be picky but that email announce the official release of MC 9. It was available since at least January as I have been using it since then. There is a definite difference between availablity and release. MC 9.1 is available now to download from this forum but it won't be released for a while yet...

Adam

Gnarly_Gnome · « **Reply #12 on:** July 03, 2003, 05:36:14 am »

Ok.. what part don't you understand?

When I downloaded MJ, MC was not available in a "release" form.. maybe Beta.. but I don't really like beta testing. I'd rather have software that works than spending my time finding bugs and misplaced commas.

Since you don't have to go to the homepage or anything to purchase your license for MJ (just clickon "buy" in the help menu) I never had a reason to visit the home page, and thus never knew MC had moved out of beta and been released until I got the email.

But you know what? It doesn't really matter when MC was in Beta, released or announced.. All that matters when it comes down to it is this.. Which software is best for working with my iPod.

Many factors to consider.. ease of use, stability, active development, price, and customer service.

Now Which of those do you consider to be the most important? To me, Price is the least of my concerns (at least at this level).. I'd have to rank stability first.. followed by Customer service and east of use neck in neck for second. Third would have to be future development and as I said.. finally price..

JRiver might have high scores in most areas.. but I'm finding their customer service to be very lacking.

Kharma · « **Reply #13 on:** July 03, 2003, 05:36:15 am »

Quote

Don't wanna be picky but that email announce the official release of MC 9. It was available since at least January as I have been using it since then. There is a definite difference between availablity and release. MC 9.1 is available now to download from this forum but it won't be released for a while yet...

Adam

I would hardly compare a beta offering of 9.1 to a release version in terms of availability... Perhaps some people would rather not deal with the debuggin process when they pay for software (Although these days it seems even the final version is still beta!)

Doof · « **Reply #14 on:** July 03, 2003, 05:59:49 am »

There were 2 reasons people who purchased it early got it for free, if I recall correctly.

At the time, people who were buying MJ were promised a free upgrade to the next version. (when I bought 7 I was promised 8, for instance) But the decision to split the product into two product lines hadn't been made yet. When it had, and the price difference was decided upon, something had to be done for those people who already purchased MJ8 under the promise of a free upgrade to 9. They were grandfathered in, if you will. I believe the current upgrade scenario is that users who buy any major version, only get the minor upgrades for free now, and the next major version will require another purchase. This was the biggest reason.

The second reason, IIRC, was because people who had purchased MJ 7 and were beta testing MJ 9 wanted to buy MJ 9 (again this was before the decision to split the products into MJ & MC) and the code to do so hadn't been written & finalized yet. So JRiver allowed people to buy MJ 8 and that license would count as a purchase of MJ 9.

Once the decision to split the product up into MJ 8 and MC 9 was made, some people, who had already purchased 9, decided they'd rather stick with 8, and so JRiver made it possible for licenses purchased in a certain time period to be used on either product.

Basically, what you've run into is JRiver's attempt at doing right by as many people as possible during a time when product lines and licensing terms were changing. Personally, I think they did as good a job as they could. Because if they then said "You're right, since people who purchased 3 months before you got to upgrade for free, then you'll be able to as well." they'd have to effectively give EVERYBODY a free upgrade and they'd never be able to change their licensing terms.

MC 9 was advertized on the download page for MJ 8. You yourself admit to seeing this on the download page. It's unfortunate that you chose not to click the link and read up on it. If you had, you'd have seen the deadlines for buying 8 and getting 9 for free were spelled out very clearly. They gave people a lot of notice that the change was coming and a lot of time to decide to buy 8 and get 9 for free if they wanted it.

I realize that none of this will probably make you feel any better about the situation, but I hope it will at least help you to understand why and how things got to be this way. Transitions are always tough, both for the company and the customers, and JRiver struggled for quite some time with this decision. They even brought it up for discussion in the forums - both the decision to split the product and the new licensing terms. It's clear they are doing their best to accomodate as many people as possible, but as I said before, they have to draw the line at some point. Unfortunately, you found yourself on the wrong side of that line.

sraymond · « **Reply #15 on:** July 03, 2003, 06:30:53 am »

Well, wouldn't it seem fair that "beta testers" (who PAY to beta test) get a reduced price?

Remember my story about Sonic Stylus Studio? I knew there was a beta in the works (it seems few software developers these data release a final product without some sort of beta phase), so I called the company (and wrote an e-mail) asking what would happen with the upgrade if I bought now. I got a *GREAT* response (from the Director of Sales - the guy who will eventually decide the upgrade path) and was quite happy to purchase. Had I not done my due diligence, I don't think I'd have been upset with Stylus Studio.

I know MC wasn't "released" until May, but it was readily available for purchase. If you chose not to participate in a beta phase, perhaps that's the motivation behind making you pay the normal upgrade fee.

I wonder, though, didn't the "beta" license (i.e. the license you could buy while the product was in beta) work for v8? I'm pretty sure it did. So you could have bought an MC license and used it with MJ8? What's the complaint with that?

Scott-

CautionESPN · « **Reply #16 on:** July 03, 2003, 07:11:59 am »

It has been less than 24 hours, give JRiver a chance to respond to you. You may not have wished to purchase beta software but the option was in fact there. The fact that you didnt find it or that you didnt choose to participate is on you. You instead chose to purchase Media Jukebox (which is a fine product, whether or not they decide to support iPod is completely up to them). You now realize you made the wrong choice in your purchase and this is going to cost you an extra $5. I'm sorry but I don't see how this negatively reflects on JRiver.

Doof · « **Reply #17 on:** July 03, 2003, 07:31:31 am »

When Microsoft released Windows XP, there were 2 versions, Home and Professional.

If you bought Home, there was an upgrade available that would get you Professional.

However, the cost of Home and the Upgrade was more than just going out and buying Professional to begin with.

I think somebody called the price differene the "Oops!" fee. Just be thankful this Oops fee is only $5.

zevele10 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 03, 2003, 11:36:42 am »

Doof
If you ,i would lock this post.
Enought of it ......

LonWar · « **Reply #19 on:** July 03, 2003, 11:59:03 am »

I also agree that this should be locked. It's not like you got ripped off... I also paid full price for this app...

I just don't see why you are so pi**ed off.

Charlemagne 8 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 03, 2003, 12:24:25 pm »

It shouldn't be locked because of voicing concerns and comments and even righteous indignation over a situation that is deemed unfair.
But when the "discussion" turns into "name-calling", it should be closed for childish behavior.

CVIII

zevele10 · « **Reply #21 on:** July 03, 2003, 12:30:29 pm »

What do you want JRiver to answer ??

You got enought answers from other people .

We are speaking about $5 that YOU MAY HAVE TO SPEND.
Spend it or not ,up to you.

You think they did wrong , they think they did not.

You are upset ,be upset .
PS: how many Ipod can you buy with $5 ?

<I'm removing that slight use of profanity as well - let's keep this clean - Doof>
Like it ,it will be lock

Charlemagne 8 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 03, 2003, 12:38:05 pm »

Hey, Z.

There's a band called that ("F***") on Emusic. I was VERY suprised. The genre is "Indie". Maybe good?

CVIII

Doof · « **Reply #23 on:** July 03, 2003, 12:45:29 pm »

I'm -> <- this close to locking this thread. If you want to talk about the "unfair" way in which you've been treated in regards to the price you paid, go ahead. But we, as a community, don't allow flaming here.

That goes for everybody.

As it is, somebody at JRiver may decide to lock this thread anyway, but for now I'm hoping we can leave it open and turn it down a more constructive road.

JimH · « **Reply #24 on:** July 03, 2003, 01:15:32 pm »

Gnarley,
I'll lock the thread.

Other users have done a pretty good job of explaining. MJ was $24.98. You can upgrade to MC for $20. That is $5 extra.

If you weren't aware that MC was available, I'm sorry, but we don't promote betas much.

Jim

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Author Topic: I'm a little upset.. Ok.. aLOT upset... (Read 5913 times)

sraymond

sraymond

sraymond

zevele10

zevele10