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Author Topic: Why not a truly Windows 10 Skin on MC 24?  (Read 4775 times)

F Ribeiro

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Why not a truly Windows 10 Skin on MC 24?
« on: March 01, 2018, 06:07:25 pm »

What I really would like to have is a truly standard view Windows 10 Skin.
The standard Noire skin is getting outdated.
Nevertheless, the “playing now”, “action window” column has the best icons.
The same for “tools”, “shuffle” and “repeat” icons on the upper playing toolbar.
It’ a menor thing, I know. But people on the Mac side says is too Windows on Apple environment, which is not anymore.
Sorry to bug you with that  :)
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imugli

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Re: Why not a truly Windows 10 Skin on MC 24?
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2018, 06:40:52 pm »

Do you know you can create your own skins if youre willing to jump in and get your hands dirty?

pinoyputi

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Re: Why not a truly Windows 10 Skin on MC 24?
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2018, 02:44:20 am »

Don't you think it is a bit of a silly answer to give to a customer of  a commercial product. For years there have been questions about updating the looks of MC and the only answer is, you can make your own skin. Every year we're asked to put money on the table for minor upgrades. The least you can do is give us some good looking modern skins instead of leaving it to others.
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Hendrik

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Re: Why not a truly Windows 10 Skin on MC 24?
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2018, 03:01:00 am »

"Good looking" is quite subjective. Did you try the "Modern Cards" family of Skins that come with MC? Its a flat uniform look, which somewhat resembles the modern Windows look.
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Fingerling

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Re: Why not a truly Windows 10 Skin on MC 24?
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2018, 04:38:24 am »

I'm not impressed at all by the Windows 10 UI design and find the already present skins a fair match to this OS.
But there is plenty of user out there that agree on what a "good looking" design is. My Windows 7 PC placed next to any Mac, or even Linux PC running distros like Elementary OS or Solus, looked sooo ugly.

I find the possibility of create our own skins nice, and there is 3-4 good skins. But none make JRiver beautiful (and I don't think that's skinners fault).

I use the Dirhael's Modern Cards skins, best I have found so far.
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Why not a truly Windows 10 Skin on MC 24?
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2018, 05:04:47 am »

If you want the best looking skin family on Windows 10, the Modern Cards skins are what you likely want. On Windows 10 I use a modded Modern Cards: Light Edition skin (that I modded myself and provide a download to here) and it looks perfectly with Windows 10.
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flac.rules

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Re: Why not a truly Windows 10 Skin on MC 24?
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2018, 05:47:32 am »

Do you know you can create your own skins if youre willing to jump in and get your hands dirty?

Is if fully customizable though? Doesn't seem like it on the forums, the available skins are few, and pretty similar to the original. If thats the solution, maybe a new skinning engine is needed? Because for some reason, the availability of custom skins with a different look is low.
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flac.rules

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Re: Why not a truly Windows 10 Skin on MC 24?
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2018, 05:49:44 am »

"Good looking" is quite subjective. Did you try the "Modern Cards" family of Skins that come with MC? Its a flat uniform look, which somewhat resembles the modern Windows look.

Yeah, somewhat, but it is also quite a lot of agreement, MC is looking somewhat aged, some of it is just that it does more, the modern "clean look" with "no" functions certainly has it's downsides, but it is possible to say something about design without it just being "different people like different things, all design is equal".
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RD James

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Re: Why not a truly Windows 10 Skin on MC 24?
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2018, 06:23:17 am »

Would it be possible for Media Center to support Windows 10's Fluent Design features, similar to how Aero is supported on Windows 7?
That would mean transparency support in the skins, and improved transparency rendering for things like tooltips (which are barely legible at times in their current implementation).
 
I'd consider working on a skin if the Media Center team will commit to fixing scaling errors in the rendering engine.
Back when I had an Apple notebook I was about 2/3 of the way complete on a skin that had the appearance of being macOS native, but stopped once these rendering issues were no longer being fixed.
If things aren't being scaled correctly, there's no point in putting in that effort, or trying to hide it by making changes to the skin's appearance.
That being said, I'm not sure what a "Windows 10" app would look like. Microsoft's Groove app? I'm honestly not a huge fan of a lot of the Windows 10 aesthetic.
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Why not a truly Windows 10 Skin on MC 24?
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2018, 06:38:05 am »

Would it be possible for Media Center to support Windows 10's Fluent Design features, similar to how Aero is supported on Windows 7?
That would mean transparency support in the skins, and improved transparency rendering for things like tooltips (which are barely legible at times in their current implementation).

Can Win32 apps even use Fluent Design features or can only UWP apps use it?

I admit, this would be pretty interesting to see. If you use a third-party "Windows Aero Glass" mod (e.g. Aero Glass For Windows 8+) you *can* re-enable the transparency/glass effects in the MC skins that use it (e.g. Noire Glass) in Windows 10. Otherwise those skins give off an error (OpenGL error if I recall correctly?) when trying to use them on Windows 10, macOS or Linux.

At the very least getting the transparency/glass effects working again on Windows 10 would go a long way. I'd even start experimenting with creating a semi-transparent fork of the Modern Cards: Light Edition skin I use now. At the very least I'd be able to at least "emulate" the Fluent Design look in the frame of the skin. :D
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JimH

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Re: Why not a truly Windows 10 Skin on MC 24?
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2018, 07:15:27 am »

... it is possible to say something about design without it just being "different people like different things,
I agree with that.
Quote
all design is equal".
but not that.  We've not said that. 

Design is personal, not universal. 
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JimH

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Re: Why not a truly Windows 10 Skin on MC 24?
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2018, 07:31:59 am »

Don't you think it is a bit of a silly answer to give to a customer of  a commercial product. For years there have been questions about updating the looks of MC and the only answer is, you can make your own skin. Every year we're asked to put money on the table for minor upgrades. The least you can do is give us some good looking modern skins instead of leaving it to others.
You've replied to someone who doesn't work at JRiver.  I think your comment is also unfair.  You have a lot of choices.  There are a number of skins available with the program and on the Third Party board.  You may not like them, but we can't develop a new one just to suit any single user.

You might also explore the View menu to see what else is available. 

You can simplify the GUI here:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Simplified_Interface

I would love to make everyone happy, but I'm afraid it isn't possible.
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Daniel Warner

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Re: Why not a truly Windows 10 Skin on MC 24?
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2018, 09:51:12 am »

I can see everyone's view here, but you HAVE to admit the UI is dated - it hasn't changed at all for years.  I know design is subjective, but if you encourage everyone to use Modern Cards skin, then why not bake it into the program as default? 

On a modern 24" screen or bigger, there are acres of nothing - I know I can customise the UI to some extent, but the user shouldn't have to do that I don't think.
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JimH

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Re: Why not a truly Windows 10 Skin on MC 24?
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2018, 10:04:28 am »

... if you encourage everyone to use Modern Cards skin, then why not bake it into the program as default? 
I encourage people to use the skin they like.  It's easy to try them.  View Menu > Skins.
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Hendrik

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Re: Why not a truly Windows 10 Skin on MC 24?
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2018, 10:36:31 am »

if you encourage everyone to use Modern Cards skin, then why not bake it into the program as default? 

The Modern Cards skin is included in MC by default, its just not the default skin choice. We only encourage people to try it if they are unhappy with the default look, and it only takes a few clicks to do that straight from within MC, no additional install required or anything.

If we were to change the default skin, I assure you there would at least be the same number people asking what happened and how they change back. :)
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Daniel Warner

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Re: Why not a truly Windows 10 Skin on MC 24?
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2018, 10:44:34 am »

I understand, but you must admit the UI needs overhauling?

It hasn't changed AT ALL in years.  I know it's not a priority but when you can barely see the difference in versions since version 17 (When I first bought into the program) it seems a little lazy.

I'm not trying to be an ass here, I love what you do with the program, but I just wish you would update it somewhat.  At the very least, support the modern Windows paradigms - Jump lists on the taskbar and start menu, proper support for snapping (It does do snapping, but not the newer version introduced in Windows 8 and then refined in 10). There are more, but those stick in my mind
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CountryBumkin

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Re: Why not a truly Windows 10 Skin on MC 24?
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2018, 02:25:17 pm »

The Modern Cards skin is included in MC by default, its just not the default skin choice.

I would make the "Modern" skin the default for MC24.

First, the program would be easier distinguish from MC23 as you go back and forth between 23 and 24 during setup and testing. And it would make the buyer feel that MC24 is new and fresh and something has changed/improved as soon as the program starts. The Placebo effect.
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Why not a truly Windows 10 Skin on MC 24?
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2018, 03:05:02 pm »

I would make the "Modern" skin the default for MC24.

For Windows 8.x and Windows 10, sure, this would make sense. Windows Vista or 7? I'd stick with Noire as the default there.

But if this is considered for at least Windows 8.x/10, I'd highly recommend adding and bundling the ModernCards: Light Edition skin and consider using it as the default (since it looks the best against a default Windows 8.x/10 install). It's a semi-fork of the original version of Dihrael's Light Edition, except it's been updated for the new tag window and other bug fixes. This is the skin I use on Windows 10 and it looks fantastic.

Here's a screenshot of the ModernCards: Light Edition skin running on Windows 10. You have to admit, it matches up pretty well with the taskbar and everything.
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I don't work for JRiver... I help keep the forums safe from Viagra and other sources of sketchy pharmaceuticals.

Windows 11 2024 Update (24H2) 64-bit + Ubuntu 24.04 LTS Noble Numbat 64-bit | Windows 11 2024 Update (24H2) 64-bit (Intel N305 Fanless NUC 16GB RAM/500GB M.2 NVMe SSD)
JRiver Media Center 32 (Windows + Linux) | iFi ZEN DAC 3 | JBL 306P MkII Studio Monitors | Audio-Technica ATH-M50x Headphones
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