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Author Topic: 24-bit to 16-bit dither question  (Read 3832 times)

partha

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24-bit to 16-bit dither question
« on: March 17, 2018, 03:14:48 pm »

Hi all, windows asus pc here. I've just taken a trial version and am thinking of permanently switching from dbpoweramp to jriver for all my processing. Firstly, I have to convert a large batch of 24-bit HD tracks files (varying khz) to 16/44.1 flac.

so i go to tools on  top, options, audio, advanced, dither (TPDF).

I also check the resample using sox box.

then i use library tools/convert/flac (compression level 6) and in the options pane on the left, i open audio conversion options and check apply dsp, click on dsp settings, and set all sample rate to 44.1.

That's all i've figured out so far.  Is it now processing in the right order  (sample rate conversion first, bit depth with dither last? In dbpoweramp this was easy to figure out).

Also, should I be analysing audio or setting volume levels, or let original levels be? clipping protection seems to be on.

Am i doing this right? Is there anything else I should be doing? Any advice appreciated.

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RD James

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Re: 24-bit to 16-bit dither question
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2018, 03:37:08 pm »

That's all you should have to do. Media Center will perform those operations in the correct order.
Analyzing the audio and enabling Volume Leveling DSP would convert everything to have an equal loudness centered around -23 LUFS (dBFS) baked into the file. This is useful for handheld conversion for a device which does not have any volume leveling features of its own.
You can also analyze tracks and simply enable Volume Leveling on playback if you are using Media Center.
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partha

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Re: 24-bit to 16-bit dither question
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2018, 03:50:35 pm »

Thanks a ton RD. Yes, I am only researching and familiarizing myself with processing now. Will learn about jriver for playback a bit later. Even so, I think I should analyse audio too.

Is there any audible difference in the default dither? Have been reading up a lot about this, and ended up confused so just wanted your view. I am going with triangular by accepted/safe practice, but is the default worth it?
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pschelbert

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Re: 24-bit to 16-bit dither question
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2018, 03:53:12 pm »

Hi all, windows asus pc here. I've just taken a trial version and am thinking of permanently switching from dbpoweramp to jriver for all my processing. Firstly, I have to convert a large batch of 24-bit HD tracks files (varying khz) to 16/44.1 flac.

so i go to tools on  top, options, audio, advanced, dither (TPDF).

I also check the resample using sox box.

then i use library tools/convert/flac (compression level 6) and in the options pane on the left, i open audio conversion options and check apply dsp, click on dsp settings, and set all sample rate to 44.1.

That's all i've figured out so far.  Is it now processing in the right order  (sample rate conversion first, bit depth with dither last? In dbpoweramp this was easy to figure out).

Also, should I be analysing audio or setting volume levels, or let original levels be? clipping protection seems to be on.

Am i doing this right? Is there anything else I should be doing? Any advice appreciated.

You hmust not convert anything.

JRiver can play with almost ny bit debth, samperate and fileforma. Just let JRiver build a library that alll.
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partha

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Re: 24-bit to 16-bit dither question
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2018, 03:58:45 pm »

Yes, but I won't be playing back these files on jriver. I will be transferring this batch of 16/44.1 flac on to my iphone onkyo HF app to connect to an onkyo amp capable only of 16/44.1 playback. (for jriver media centre playback, i won't convert)
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RD James

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Re: 24-bit to 16-bit dither question
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2018, 04:08:42 pm »

Is there any audible difference in the default dither? Have been reading up a lot about this, and ended up confused so just wanted your view. I am going with triangular by accepted/safe practice, but is the default worth it?
I am of the opinion that TPDF should be the default.
The "bit-exact dither" is RPDF which I would not recommend using, as it can distort audibly - especially if you are reducing the bit-depth.

You can hear the effects of this if you start playback in Media Center and enable the "bit-depth simulator" inside the Parametric EQ DSP. Note: do this at a low playback volume.
As you reduce the bit-depth you will hear more and more distortion with dither disabled or set to "bit-exact". TPDF adds more noise but does not distort. This can be changed during playback.
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partha

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Re: 24-bit to 16-bit dither question
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2018, 04:13:40 pm »

I am of the opinion that TPDF should be the default.
The "bit-exact dither" is RPDF which I would not recommend using, as it can distort audibly - especially if you are reducing the bit-depth.

You can hear the effects of this if you start playback in Media Center and enable the "bit-depth simulator" inside the Parametric EQ DSP. Note: do this at a low playback volume.
As you reduce the bit-depth you will hear more and more distortion with dither disabled or set to "bit-exact". TPDF adds more noise but does not distort.

brilliant. thx. tpdf it is. experimenting with the rectangular dither now just to check if the ears have it...
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RD James

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Re: 24-bit to 16-bit dither question
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2018, 04:19:00 pm »

brilliant. thx. tpdf it is. experimenting with the rectangular dither now just to check if the ears have it...
At very low bit-depths such as 3-bit, it will be very obvious.
At higher bit-depths it is less obvious, but can still be heard at times - particularly with quieter music.
The main difference is that TPDF has a constant noise floor, while the noise floor with RPDF can be modulated by the signal - so you can hear it pulsing or going silent at times in the middle of a track.
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partha

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Re: 24-bit to 16-bit dither question
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2018, 02:16:42 pm »

I also want to ask what 'not-zone specific' means when it comes to the dither.

Also, If I have it set to tpdf for the 24-bit files, and suddenly i have to convert a 16-bit file instead, should i turn dither off or will it turn off on its own?
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Hendrik

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Re: 24-bit to 16-bit dither question
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2018, 02:19:42 pm »

Dithering is always used properly, you should never turn it off. MC automatically applies the appropriate dithering strength for what you are converting to.
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partha

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Re: 24-bit to 16-bit dither question
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2018, 02:22:22 pm »

Thanks. Amid all my hd track files conversion (see above), I have to suddenly convert a prince emancipation 16-bit alac file to flac. not turning off dither then. so what does not zone-specific mean?
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RD James

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Re: 24-bit to 16-bit dither question
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2018, 06:12:01 pm »

Thanks. Amid all my hd track files conversion (see above), I have to suddenly convert a prince emancipation 16-bit alac file to flac. not turning off dither then. so what does not zone-specific mean?
The dither setting cannot be adjusted per-zone, while most other settings can. Whatever it's set to applies to all playback/conversions on that system.
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partha

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Re: 24-bit to 16-bit dither question
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2018, 02:26:26 am »

Thanks a ton.
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