Topic: Don't change my flac files (Read 2127 times)

magnust · « **on:** April 16, 2018, 04:09:47 pm »

What has changed suddenly? Running 23.0.104

My flac files are carefully tagged outside MC. MC is not allowed to touch them, only create it's own internal database. This has worked for 7-8 years.

But last couple of weeks things have been behaving funny when running backup, it's been backing up flac files that are untouched, unchanged. That's not right.

And today, I found MC is messing with my flac files writing tags in to them when doing import with analyze!

WHAT HAS HAPPENED?

RoderickGI · « **Reply #1 on:** April 16, 2018, 05:01:37 pm »

You have "Analyse audio for audio files" turned on. That will write tags to the file. There may be other tags written, but that is the obvious one.

If you don't want any tags written to the files go to;
"Options > Library & Folders > Manage Library Fields..."
Select "Show only fields saved in tags" in the drop-down at the top left of the dialogue.
Uncheck "Save in file tags (when possible)" for every field in the list, so that none are saved in tags.

I have no idea what changed. Maybe that audio setting reverted for the Library. Maybe you reset the Library to Stock Fields? Maybe you reimported all your music into a new library?

BTW, how did you stop MC from tagging the files in the past? If you haven't done the above previously, there is no way to stop MC from writing certain tags. It has always done that. Of course, the Audio Analysis tags don't do any harm at all, it you don't use them in your DSP settings. I can understand that you don't want the Dat Modified to be changed though, but it is just one of the dates available for use in Views, Smartlists, etc. Annoying, but not a disaster. To fix that you wold need to restore a backup of the files, and even then that or other dates may get changed during the restore. i.e. Date Created often gets changed.

Also, I used to have a Windows plug-in that allowed dates to be changed via properties. I don't have it anymore in Windows 10, and can't remember the name, but a bit of Googling might find it to fix the date issue.

RD James · « **Reply #2 on:** April 16, 2018, 05:27:26 pm »

Quote from: magnust on April 16, 2018, 04:09:47 pm

And today, I found MC is messing with my flac files writing tags in to them when doing import with analyze!

Restore your backup.
If you haven't had a backup system in place for 7-8 years, Media Center writing analysis tags to the files is the least-bad thing that could have happened.

magnust · « **Reply #3 on:** April 16, 2018, 05:27:37 pm »

Thank you for your reply. Sorry for sounding a bit upset.

Analyse audio has been turned on and run on all imports since 7-8 years and trust me, no tags have ever been written to my flac files. Until a few weeks ago. You are right that the tags are written to flac files when doing an analyse on them. But again, this is a new and changed behaviour.

Currently running a backup restore on half a terabyte of files, hope that goes well.

So what setting must be changed to prevent MC writing stuff into my carefully tagged files?

magnust · « **Reply #4 on:** April 16, 2018, 05:33:10 pm »

Quote from: RD James on April 16, 2018, 05:27:26 pm

Restore your backup.
If you haven't had a backup system in place for 7-8 years, Media Center writing analysis tags to the files is the least-bad thing that could have happened.

I have a straight directory tree backup. And that in turn is backed up into a sector based backup with infinite file version backup. And that backup is also cloned with infinite versioning to an offsite backup machine.

My main concern was to understand what files had been tampered with, I really wouldn"t want to restore the full five terabytes...

RoderickGI · « **Reply #5 on:** April 16, 2018, 05:34:04 pm »

Well, quite some time ago the Analyse Audio functionality was changed. Search the Release Notes in the Wiki to see what you can find. Did you upgrade\update MC to MC23.0.104 recently from a much older version? If so, the new Analyse Audio kicked in and wrote new tags.

As above, turn off writing tags at the field level, via Manage Library Fields. That's the only way I know how to do it.

RD James · « **Reply #6 on:** April 16, 2018, 06:27:06 pm »

Quote from: magnust on April 16, 2018, 05:33:10 pm

I have a straight directory tree backup. And that in turn is backed up into a sector based backup with infinite file version backup. And that backup is also cloned with infinite versioning to an offsite backup machine.

My main concern was to understand what files had been tampered with, I really wouldn"t want to restore the full five terabytes...

Sort by date modified to see which ones were changed today?

magnust · « **Reply #7 on:** April 17, 2018, 01:50:01 am »

Quote from: RD James on April 16, 2018, 06:27:06 pm

Sort by date modified to see which ones were changed today?

Yup. Got it sorted.

But now I don't even dare to start MC since it autoimports with analyse.

Are you saying I need to go in and untick each and every tag in manage library fields to prevent MC to mess with my files?

RD James · « **Reply #8 on:** April 17, 2018, 03:33:22 am »

Do you already have "update tags when file info changes" disabled?

magnust · « **Reply #9 on:** April 17, 2018, 09:54:46 am »

Quote from: RD James on April 17, 2018, 03:33:22 am

Do you already have "update tags when file info changes" disabled?

Yes. That's why no tags have been written ever before.

Is it really true that I have to go through the list and uncheck tag by tag to disable writing to my files? What if some new tag is added in the future at some point, how will I know I need to go in and disable that then. Not happy.

As RoderickGI wrote I recently updated from 22 since I thought I'd support JRiver a bit. There is really nothing in 23/24 that I want but hey, MC has been so good all these years. Not too happy to hit problems, why did I update...

I have write protected all files now as a temporary fix but MC goes crazy with tons of pop ups complaining it failed writing.

RD James · « **Reply #10 on:** April 17, 2018, 10:08:21 am »

Quote from: magnust on April 17, 2018, 09:54:46 am

Is it really true that I have to go through the list and uncheck tag by tag to disable writing to my files? What if some new tag is added in the future at some point, how will I know I need to go in and disable that then. Not happy.

No, you shouldn't have to do that.
Check that you also have writing tags disabled in the auto-import config.

billpeloquin · « **Reply #11 on:** April 17, 2018, 10:55:39 am »

Quote

My main concern was to understand what files had been tampered with, I really wouldn"t want to restore the full five terabytes...

5 terabytes must be a ton of music!

magnust · « **Reply #12 on:** April 17, 2018, 11:19:43 am »

Quote from: billpeloquin on April 17, 2018, 10:55:39 am

5 terabytes must be a ton of music!

The amount of money... and time... I've been a big music fan since the seventies. And the last twenty years or something getting it all on my hard drive(s)

Anyone wanting to buy my 7000-8000 vinyl albums, 12" and 7" singles? Or my 5000-6000 or something cds? Oh the money spent...

Spotify? Noooooooo.

magnust · « **Reply #13 on:** April 17, 2018, 11:21:28 am »

Quote from: RD James on April 17, 2018, 10:08:21 am

No, you shouldn't have to do that.
Check that you also have writing tags disabled in the auto-import config.

Yes. Also disabled.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #14 on:** April 17, 2018, 05:35:59 pm »

I was always a bit dubious about the "Update tags when file info changes" setting and whether it was an "all or nothing" configuration. But I haven't tested a lot with it off.

Hence my suggestion to change the tag writing at the field level. The Wiki is clear that there are two requirements for tags to be written to files. There are only 69 fields in the library that are written to tags in files, and it is easy to find them if you use the drop-down in the dialogue. It wouldn't take that long to turn them all off. Sure, a new field may be set to write to a file tag, but the fields that get written to files don't change that often, and just checking the Release Notes before doing an update should highlight any potential new ones.

Try turning off Auto Import to stop all the popup messages you are getting, or at least some. I think MC finds files that it wants to update when Auto Import runs. But it probably checks the files when you play or view them as well. I'm not sure.
"Options > Library & Folders > Auto-import > Run Auto-import in background"

Also, your first post showed that you have "Update for external changes" checked. My understanding, and what the Wiki says, is that just updates the library for external changes to files that MC detects. Maybe it does more, such as writing tags MC has in its library in addition to existing tags into the file? I would think that it shouldn't, so maybe that is an inadvertent change.

There have been quite a few improvements in tag writing since MC22, so maybe something was changed and part of MC no longer respects the "Update tags when file info changes" setting.

I think this is an issue for a JRiver developer to look into. It does seem to be a bug if the "Update tags when file info changes" setting is supposed to enable or disable all tag writing.

magnust · « **Reply #15 on:** April 18, 2018, 03:39:54 am »

Quote from: RoderickGI on April 17, 2018, 05:35:59 pm

...tag writing since MC22, so maybe something was changed and part of MC no longer respects the "Update tags when file info changes" setting.

I think this is an issue for a JRiver developer to look into. It does seem to be a bug if the "Update tags when file info changes" setting is supposed to enable or disable all tag writing.

Agree fully

Thanks for your efforts!

magnust · « **Reply #16 on:** April 20, 2018, 11:53:25 am »

So what now?

Simple question to developers, should tags be written into files when they are analysed even if "write file tags when analyzing audio..." is UNCHECKED?

BryanC · « **Reply #17 on:** April 20, 2018, 05:01:38 pm »

In the interim (and possibly indefinitely) it may be a good idea to make the files/directories read-only at the filesystem level.

magnust · « **Reply #18 on:** April 20, 2018, 05:06:30 pm »

Yep. Did that. Must not forget to do it each time I add music. Before starting MC though. And not have MC running when adding the files into the folders.

torgny · « **Reply #19 on:** April 23, 2018, 07:56:52 am »

I also wrote a post about a similar experience a few days back. In my case, actually I would want to have external changes reflected in my MC23 library, but unbeknownst to me, the update from MC20 to MC23 unchecked that feature. I had several weeks of puzzling MC23 behaviour until I noticed what had happened. I hope MC23 hasn't found a way of reversing user choices out of spite!

Quote from: magnust on April 17, 2018, 09:54:46 am

Yes. That's why no tags have been written ever before.

Is it really true that I have to go through the list and uncheck tag by tag to disable writing to my files? What if some new tag is added in the future at some point, how will I know I need to go in and disable that then. Not happy.

As RoderickGI wrote I recently updated from 22 since I thought I'd support JRiver a bit. There is really nothing in 23/24 that I want but hey, MC has been so good all these years. Not too happy to hit problems, why did I update...

I have write protected all files now as a temporary fix but MC goes crazy with tons of pop ups complaining it failed writing.

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Author Topic: Don't change my flac files (Read 2127 times)