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Author Topic: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?  (Read 10975 times)

TheShoe

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3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« on: April 21, 2018, 08:12:28 pm »

I tried 3D playback the other day with MC24 and it didn't work.  Went back to MC23 and it worked without issue.

Also noticed the version of madVr that is downloaded has some strange behavior.

When I create a profile under Devices and then try to edit the profile name, for every character i type in the text input box it adds the character to the name and then jumps up to a hight level item in the hierarchy (eg. to "Devices").  Very odd - does not happen in MC23 at all, though I am using the latest madVr.

Anyone with 3D - can you try playback and check if it works?

Thanks

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jmone

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2018, 02:56:16 am »

Had a quick look at 3D (once I had charged my glasses) and I could not get it to work.  madVR said it was 3D, nvidia said it was 3D, my 3D Glasses came on but it was only 2D (like both eyes were the same).
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RD James

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2018, 05:08:06 am »

I don't have a 3D display hooked up right now, but modes like line alternative are working and showing different images for the left and right eyes (since they don't converge).
Check that you have "enable 3D Blu-ray and MKV 3D decoding" enabled in Media Center's video options.
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Hendrik

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2018, 05:32:55 am »

Nothing in MC has changed regarding video playback in 24. Setting up 3D playback especially on Windows 10 can be rather finnicky. Works fine on my 8.1 at least.
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TheShoe

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2018, 10:25:08 am »

Nothing in MC has changed regarding video playback in 24. Setting up 3D playback especially on Windows 10 can be rather finnicky. Works fine on my 8.1 at least.

indeed.

only difference I note is that I am using different versions of madvr between MC23 and MC24, and the madvr issues I referenced above with things like renaming profiles only in MC24.



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stewart_pk

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2018, 07:43:17 pm »

It worked with version 92.12 of madVR for me.
You can update the version of madVR in JRiver manually.
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TheShoe

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2018, 07:45:52 pm »

It worked with version 92.12 of madVR for me.
You can update the version of madVR in JRiver manually.

yes -that is the version of madvr i am using in MC 23.  i’ll give that a try in MC 24

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TheShoe

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2018, 07:48:24 am »

didn't work.  I tried the version of madVr I used with MC 23.  Same effect: switches to 3D, no video, and have to kill MC24 process if it does not crash on its own.

Also when playing back 4K content, it scales to 1080p in spite of my telling madVr for 2D content, only use 4K modes.

I run my desktop at 1080p by default and in MC23 with my madVr profiles, 4K plays in 4K, 3D in 1080p3D, all in Windowed mode.

checked and re-checked all settings in JRiver and madVr between MC23 and MC24 and they are equal.

have the good folks at JRiver tested 3D to see if it's still working?

further notes:

madVr will no longer switch to FSE in MC24; even when I changed my desktop to 2160p and played back a 4K+HDR MKV, it would only playback in 1080p + HDR.  back to MC23 and everything worked fine.

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jmone

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2018, 01:23:49 am »

Did some more testing on 3D but no luck, it all looks 2D even though:
- madVR is reporting that it is outputting 3D (D3D11(3D) and NV12 (3D))
- PJ changes reports it is receiving 1080/24 frame packed
- nvidia is reporting the resolution is 1080/23 & that the 3D mode is BD HDMI

The only thing I notice (and as we don't really watch 3D I can not remember) is madVR is saying that it is scaling 1920x1080 to 3840x2160.  Sorry I'm not sure at what point it worked (it did but I don't think I've watched a 3D for a year on this setup).

Edit - The only time I got MC to hang was if I turned off 3D in madVR's settings but left it on in MC.  The rest of the time was fine.  Also no issues with 4K.
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jmone

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2018, 03:01:05 am »

...also if you have general "weirdness" after all the tweaking, I'd suggest that, you delete all the folders in "C:\Users\[USERNAME]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 24\Plugins" (MC will re-download all the sub folders with default settings).  Note: If you have customised any madVR Settings you will want to save the "settings.bin" file and copy it back into the madvr folder later.
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TheShoe

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2018, 03:41:36 pm »

...also if you have general "weirdness" after all the tweaking, I'd suggest that, you delete all the folders in "C:\Users\[USERNAME]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 24\Plugins" (MC will re-download all the sub folders with default settings).  Note: If you have customised any madVR Settings you will want to save the "settings.bin" file and copy it back into the madvr folder later.

yeah i learned the hard way on backing up settings.bin

thanks for the tips.  3D is still regularly watched here so bummer for me for now.

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jmone

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2018, 05:28:51 pm »

I'm happy to test (mostly Weekends) if there are any hints on what to try.  Any thoughts on why madVR is reporting that it is scaling from 1920x1080 to 3840x2160 while in 3D 1080p Frame Packed Mode?  .... or is this normal?
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fitbrit

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2018, 09:01:23 pm »

Funnily enough, I tested this yesterday, The only way it works with my nvidia card (1050Ti) was to have it in Exclusive mode in MadVR. And it worked for MVC mkvs perfectly with the following caveat - you had to right click the mouse or move it to bring it out of Exclusive mode, then wait the 5 seconds or so until it returns to Exclusive mode and voila.
I created a separate 3D zone to see if I could have different MadVR settings. I wanted to have windowed mode for non-3D and Exclusive for 3D in Zone Switch (I can differentiate the material using my custom 3D field), but it seems like it is still not possible to have two zones with different MadVR settings.
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jmone

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2018, 09:58:05 pm »

I remember that bug!  Not home to test but this was what we saw ..way way back, when 3D first came out.  Nice find.
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fitbrit

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2018, 10:14:06 pm »

I remember that bug!  Not home to test but this was what we saw ..way way back, when 3D first came out.  Nice find.

Yes, I remembered that, and because I am slow to adapt to new stuff, I always still include it in my testing of 3D
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rec head

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2018, 07:34:55 am »

I haven't taken MC23 off my HTPC yet. Does it make any sense to set it up and use it for 3D and MC24 for everything else? I'm never just browsing movies and select a 3D title. We always decide to do it ahead of time.
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fitbrit

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2018, 12:40:22 pm »

I haven't taken MC23 off my HTPC yet. Does it make any sense to set it up and use it for 3D and MC24 for everything else? I'm never just browsing movies and select a 3D title. We always decide to do it ahead of time.

It might work if you set MC23 to be your "external program" for 3D content.
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rec head

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2018, 02:17:00 pm »

I'm not even worried about it automatically working. It just seems like it might be easier overall. We don't watch 3D too often and when we do we plan it ahead of time.
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fitbrit

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2018, 03:31:52 pm »

I'm not even worried about it automatically working. It just seems like it might be easier overall. We don't watch 3D too often and when we do we plan it ahead of time.

In that case, if you can get it working like I do, then you can just change a few settings and go for it when it is 3D time.
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jmone

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2018, 04:14:32 am »

So if we can find a combo that works for us all then it will give the MC Devs something to look at.  I'll be able to test over the next couple of days.
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tij

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2018, 04:23:46 am »

I haven't tested MC24 ... but on MC23 3D works automatically (Win10 Ver 1709 ... NVidia 1070 ... i7 ... 2016 LG E6) ... mine set on D3D11 windowed mode ... there are few tricks to make it work though

I will try install MC24 and test 3D this weekend
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TheShoe

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2018, 04:51:37 pm »

I haven't tested MC24 ... but on MC23 3D works automatically (Win10 Ver 1709 ... NVidia 1070 ... i7 ... 2016 LG E6) ... mine set on D3D11 windowed mode ... there are few tricks to make it work though

I will try install MC24 and test 3D this weekend

thanks!  yes - recall you helped me get 3D working perfectly on MC 23.   we pretty much have exact same hardware except i have a 1080 Ti. 

if you get it working in MC 24 let me know please :)

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tij

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2018, 10:36:24 pm »

Just installed MC24 ... curiously it imported MC23 library and MC23 MadVR settings automatically

so when I start it up for first time, all my movies/music were already added ... and when I entered MadVR setting, it first loaded "required" component, but when loading finished all my MC23 MadVR setting were present in MC24

Upon playing first movie ... it was loading another "required" component ... but when its done, everything seems to be working as it should ... HDR and 3D all work

4K plays in 1080p ... need to see rechecked MadVR settings

WIndows 10 is still version 1709 build 16299.371 ... GeForce GameReady driver 397.31
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TheShoe

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2018, 07:38:50 am »

Just installed MC24 ... curiously it imported MC23 library and MC23 MadVR settings automatically

so when I start it up for first time, all my movies/music were already added ... and when I entered MadVR setting, it first loaded "required" component, but when loading finished all my MC23 MadVR setting were present in MC24

Upon playing first movie ... it was loading another "required" component ... but when its done, everything seems to be working as it should ... HDR and 3D all work

4K plays in 1080p ... need to see rechecked MadVR settings

WIndows 10 is still version 1709 build 16299.371 ... GeForce GameReady driver 397.31

what version of madVr are you using with MC24? 

you may be on a higher driver verdion for nvidia than me.   might explain why 3D in this version does not work.

i too can’t get it to play back in 4K either, even when desktop is set to 4K by default
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TheShoe

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2018, 07:53:46 pm »

@tij - did you ever get MC24 to play 4K properly?
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tij

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2018, 11:32:48 pm »

Sorry ... was a bit busy moving my libraries to new NAS

My current settings are:

windows 10 version 1803 (build 17134.48) ... nvidia 397.64 ...  mc 24.0.27 ... Madvr 0.92.4 (it came with mc24 ... didn’t put newest available)

3D works as usual ... with automatic switching

4K ... a bit strange ... MadVR reports that it renders to 1080p ... but TV LG oled E6 says it receives 4k
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tij

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2018, 11:35:53 pm »

here is screen shot
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tij

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2018, 04:49:07 am »

Did more testing … seems to work now … auto switching 3D … and 2D stuff renders in 4K now in MadVR

Last thing I did before it work was to restart computer in 2160p60 mode. 3D auto-switching seems to work now without needing to restart in 1080p resolution (probably thanks to new version 1803 Windows 10)

Most importantly … seems starting in 1080p is the cause of MadVR rendering in 1080p even though it is told to do in 2160p (like I said funnily TV reports it is receiving 2160p while MadVR renders in 1080p) … sad how work around for bugs in old Window version completely breaks down new Window version lol

I did fiddle a bit in MadVR with [display modes] and [stereo 3D] … so not sure if that helped too … as I cannot remember what I originally had, attached are screen shots of what I have now (2D and 3D profiles for these settings are identical) … and still running D3D11 Window mode as before

PS … seems either MC or new Windows update causing MadVR 3D upscaling to slow down considerably … need to turn down scaling algorithm to avoid frame drops
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rec head

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2018, 07:20:12 am »

I think I read somewhere else about the latest Windows update slowing down peoples MadVR processing and having to adjust settings accordingly. Can't remember where so take it for what it is worth.
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TheShoe

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2018, 07:57:21 pm »

thanks.  your setup is so close to mine i will take the windows update plunge

seems we can now run the desktop in 4K and have 3D work as opposed to booting into 1080p

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TheShoe

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2018, 10:57:04 am »

Getting closer.

I updated to the latest Windows 10 and MC 24.

Using older nVidia drives, 3D worked once, crashed MC multiple times.

The 3D toggle in Windows CPL now toggles nVidia correctly all the time regardless of desktop resolution.  That's nice!

4K playback works when desktop is 4K

I'm now trying the same nVidia driver as you --- 397.64 --- to see if it fixes the 3D problem.

PItA
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TheShoe

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2018, 11:27:43 am »

ok.  Seems the secret sauce was updating to same nVidia driver you are using!  397.64  (there's a later one.  not touching it for now)

This is better than before as I can now run the desktop in 2160p.

Toggling from the Windows CPL for 3D now always toggles the nVidia CPL Stereoscopic setting on/off properly.

4K+HDR is also working fine.

Good to be on MC 24 finally :)

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tij

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2018, 11:47:40 am »

Nice … glad to hear it all work out

Have not got a chance to play with MC24 ... as still moving library to new NAS ... moving is easy ... reorganising old mess is tough lol

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tij

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2018, 01:10:40 am »

I think I read somewhere else about the latest Windows update slowing down peoples MadVR processing and having to adjust settings accordingly. Can't remember where so take it for what it is worth.

After careful inspection … MadVR ignores 1080p resolution set for 3D profile (that was highest resolution that 3D used to output from my PC) … now 3D outputs at 2160p, so needed to tone down scaling algorithm to avoid frame drop

This Windows 10 update is nice … 4K desktop with 3D auto switching … and now can output 3D is 4K (reason I love this … can control scaling instead of letting TV do it)

Though it does seems that MC or MadVR is unable to switch resolution anymore … and renders in desktop resolution (at least frame rates changes correctly)
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tij

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2018, 01:18:35 am »

Actually … MadVR upscale 3D to 4K … but TV receives 1080p (so waste of GPU to upscale image to 4K only to send 1080p to TV)

Sort of confirms my suspicious:

1. start PC in 1080p … HD stuff and 3D stuff get rendered to 1080p by madVR and TV receives 1080p … 4K get downscale to 1080p by madVR but TV receives 4K signal

2. start PC in 4K … 2D stuff get correctly rendered to 4K … 3D gets upscaled to 4K but TV only receives 1080p
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TheShoe

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2018, 05:32:48 am »

i too noticed 3D working upscaled. 

however i then updated madVr to latest, added in the complete set of resolution profiles intomadVr for each type of content! eg 4K!p, 3D and now it changes everything to the correct resolution of the video every time. 

i also noticed that you can turn the LG on/off and everything still works!   so this windows 10 update and near latest nvidia drivers have resolved all issues as far as i can tell.

I’m going to pull out all the non 4K resolutions and see if madvr goes back to upscaling everything.

really since these TVs are fixed pixel displays, everything is uktimately upscaled anyway, no?  it would come down to the quality of the scaler

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tij

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2018, 07:57:50 am »

See attached what happens when watching 3D while running desktop at 4K (TV switches to 1080p as it should ... but MadVR does not)

MadVR upscales image to 4K (its very resource intensive as there are 2 images to upscale … left and right eye ... i have to turn quality of scaling from very high to medium in order not to drop frames) … but TV receives 1080p signal

so resources that MadVR use to scale up to 4K are waisted ... since something (Windows? ... MC?) scales it back to 1080p before sending to TV

Havent try to upgrade MadVR ... still on version supplied by MC24 ... which is 0.92.4
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TheShoe

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2018, 09:27:37 am »

yeah - I saw the same thing.

And of course, the TV would not be receiving two 4K images since it would not support that ;)  but madVr does say it's scaling the image.

try upgrading madvr.

there's a bug in the version with MC24: if you try to rename custom profiles, the cursor/focus jumps up the tree for each character typed into the profile name.  very annoying.  also seems no harm in upgrading

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tij

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2018, 12:39:14 pm »

@TheShoe turns out it was DPI setting of Windows that were screwing with MadVR choice of scaling … see this thread for solution

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,116106.0.html
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TheShoe

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #39 on: May 27, 2018, 06:33:24 pm »

thanks.   this should be on the wiki somewhere.   i’m saving it in a doc because i know this will be forgotten and come back into play some day 😉

you mentioned sometimes you see a huge MC UI after watching. 3D movie.   i have seen this too.  not everytime and i dont recall if it was after a 3D movie or not

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jmone

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #40 on: June 02, 2018, 01:11:17 am »

I upgraded to the latest nvidia drivers and I seem to be all good now.  Both 3D 1080fp and 4K/HDR is working just fine (including a DPI setting of 200%).  FYI - I've used the nvidia control panel to create the separate 3D 1080p resolution and use MC's display rate changer to keep everything in 4K.  My madVR setting are to enable 3D but I don't use madVR to swich 3D on or off (as it is now always on when I'm in 1080p mode).
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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #41 on: June 02, 2018, 06:15:40 am »

FYI - I've used the nvidia control panel to create the separate 3D 1080p resolution

not sure how to do that ... if you could explain a bit more ... wanna try it (always good to know more than one solution to the problem ... in case update renders one of the solution ineffective)

thing with DPI ... you dont really notice what its doing until press Ctr+J to see what madVR is doing ... and in my case (before me and @TheShoe found a walkaround) MadVR was scaling unnecessary due to DPI (visually you dont see this on TV cause signal get scale back before output to TV)

reason i notice it - there was massive frame rate drop ... which i thought was due to update ... its when tuning MadVR settings , i notice MadVR scaling where it should not be


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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #42 on: June 03, 2018, 07:03:59 am »

FYI - I've used the nvidia control panel to create the separate 3D 1080p resolution and use MC's display rate changer to keep everything in 4K.  My madVR setting are to enable 3D but I don't use madVR to swich 3D on or off (as it is now always on when I'm in 1080p mode).

not sure how to do that ... if you could explain a bit more ... wanna try it (always good to know more than one solution to the problem ... in case update renders one of the solution ineffective)

Agreed. I feel like I'm back to step 0 with getting 3D working. If anyone wants to post a step-by-step on how they have 3D working on a 4K display I'd appreciate it.
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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #43 on: June 03, 2018, 06:45:35 pm »

Here is how I got it working (sorry for the delay but testing Hendriks LAV Update).  My setup is Win10 64-Bit Version 1803.  nvidia driver is 397.93

1. Default Plugins:  Make sure you have not manually updated anything in the "C:\Users\[username]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 24\Plugins" directory.  If you have, then delete them all and let MC download it again.  This seems to be important as I was testing the latest LAV Nightly and 3D stopped working but is fine with the MC Packaged versions.

2. Setup & Test GPU for 3D (see nvidiasetup.png):  In my nvidia control panel, I went to "Set up stereoscopic 3D", enabled it and ran the Wizard.  Make sure this works, with your screen and glasses.  You well see it has then created HD 3D Resolutions.  Select the 1080p/23 hz one.REBOOT.  Check that your screen is still receiving 1080/23 Frame Packed.

3. Setup MC and madVR (see MC3D.png):  For now make sure that in MC
- "Enable 3D Blu-ray and MKV 3D decoding" is checked. 
- Also for now (just testing) make sure "Display Settings automatic change mode" is OFF.  This will prevent any resolution changes being done by MC. 
- In the madVR 3D settings just check "enable stereo 3d plaback"

Working?  Now try playing a 3D Movie (if a BD, it must be in Title Mode not Menu Mode).  You should see in the MadVR OSD (Ctrl+J) that lav/mad is in 3D Mode (madvr3d.png).  If you have it working you can then turn back on MC's "Display Settings automatic change mode" and adjust madVR Settings as needed (I've included some screenshots of my madVR settings).  For me I know have both 3D and 4K working just fine.

I've also included some screenshots of my other madVR setttings.
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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #44 on: June 03, 2018, 07:21:26 pm »

Added to the wiki.  Thanks, Nathan!
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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #45 on: June 03, 2018, 07:25:31 pm »

...lets see if it works for others!
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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #46 on: June 03, 2018, 09:49:56 pm »

@jmone ... note  on your ctr+j screenshot ... madVR is scaling your 3d 1080p to 2160p ... at beginning i was like wow - now my 3d is in 4k ... but check your TV info, it is receiving 1080p ... so that upscaling is waisted (in fact without that upscale could have used higher setting to scale chroma)

this is what i mean by DPI screwing up with madVR ... see this topic https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,116106.0.html
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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #47 on: June 03, 2018, 10:05:08 pm »

Yup - that screenshot was taken when I had put back my settings and could switch between 3D and 4K resolutions.  I've selected a single madVR scaling algo that works across all my media.  I "could" break up algos to use by types but I just am not that bothered.  You will also note that on my setup I need to use YUV instead of RGB or I get a green push on my JVC but most would use RGB.
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RoderickGI

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #48 on: June 03, 2018, 10:25:52 pm »

I have been playing with 4K a bit.

I noticed that your madVR OSD output shows you are using D3D11, and yet your madVR setting are showing "Direct 3D 11 for presentation" is not selected.

My madVR OSD was showing D3D9, although that was for non-3D content.

Please explain?
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

tij

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Re: 3D playback in MC 24 - working?
« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2018, 12:24:30 am »

that is strange ... maybe new window update ditch d3d9 (on my setting D3D11 is selected ... to be sure 10bit is outputed)
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