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[jjkale]

Can anyone give me a quick tutorial on how to measure through JRiver with REW.  I believe it has some thing to do with the WDM driver, which I have tried but can't get it to work.  Multichannel system, not using an AVR all DSP accomplished in a PC.  Yes,it is a powerful one.  i7700k; other specs on request.  Using an I2S WASAPI driver (PinkFaun streamer).
Thanks very much for the help.

[RoderickGI]

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Verifying_DSP_Studio

[jjkale]

Thanks Rod.
Can this work  on a 5.1 system?  Or will I need to  swap interconnects one at a time for each channel?
Thanks.

[mattkhan]

Thanks Rod.
Can this work  on a 5.1 system?  Or will I need to  swap interconnects one at a time for each channel?
Thanks.

the linked page does not talk about the hardware side of things because there are too many possible ways to do this and that aspect is not jriver specific.

having said that, if you post your physical configuration then it should be possible to comment on how to wire things up

[jjkale]

Thank you Matt and Rod,
My configuration:
NAS>ethernet>PinkFaun streamer 2.16(Win 10 Pro/JRiver MC 24)>I2S>PS Audio Directstream(L/R)/Holo Spring Lvl 3(C/Sub)/Matrix X Sabre Pro(Surrounds)>interconnects>Emotiva XMC-1>W4S MCH Amp> Revel F208 5.1+1

The only way I see to do this now, is to say run everything through C/Sub with C on REW left and Sub on REW right, always using C for the timing reference and then swapping the right interconnect in turn for the Subs and all other speakers.
Thanks very much for your expertise.

[mattkhan]

Not sure I follow but you don't need to move cables to send the output to different channels, just add a mix step (copy or move) in peq  -https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Parametric_Equalizer#Mixing

[RoderickGI]

Interesting... but way beyond my experience.

Matt is the expert, and wrote that page I linked to. All yours Matt!

[jjkale]

Hi Matt,
Yes, I have thought of Move/Copy.  But I still need a consistent timing source, correct?  Would you mind giving me an example?
Let's assume I will start with C/Sub.  C is always the timing reference.
So I measure C and Sub, done.
Ahead of time, can I Copy Sub to L/R/SL/SR, then Mute all the channels I am not measuring on that particular pass?
Or better to just do one channel at a time?

Also, do all the linked instructions stand?  Are they correct?
And, I use a WASAPI driver supplied by PinkFaun for the i2s protocol.  Is this a factor since the instructions require the audio cable to be used as the Audio Device?  Normally this would be "WASAPI PinkFaun I2S Bridge".

Thanks again Matt
jjk

[mattkhan]

The linked pages are valid, I only wrote them a few months ago 

Can you explain your setup a bit more please? I googled but the pinkfaun (https://www.pinkfaun.com/index.php/products/streaming-audio/pink-faun-streamer-2-16.html) is described as an arch Linux Roon server so not sure how you are using it.

The key points are

- what are you trying to measure and why?
- where is rew running relative to jriver? Which driver is it using?
- how does jriver see your output devices given that it sounds like you have 3 separate DACs, is it some aggregate device or something else?

[jjkale]

Thanks Matt.
Sure, I will try to explain.
PinkFaun does currently list the streamer with Linux.  I ordered mine about six months ago and specified Windows 10 Pro.  So I am operating with Win.  The streamer CPU is the i7700k and there is 16 GB RAM on board.  The dudes at PF have made a recent decision to go with Linux due to all the standard Windows issues.

My objectives are:
time align all main speakers and subs
eq the subs with a house curve
eq the main speakers below Schroeder
Why? To get the best audio I can in my room.

REW is running on the same streamer.  I have been using the Java driver in REW.  I am going to try loading ASIO4ALL to see if that will work for me.  Your thoughts?  I am open to either, whatever works.  I am not savvy enough to know if you can use ASIO4ALL when the PinkFaun driver is WASAPI.  Is it correct though that ASIO4ALL is just a wrapper around WASAPI and that maybe it doesn't matter?

JRiver sees the output devices as one; the Pink Faun WASAPI I2S High Definition Bridge.
Physically, there is one PCIe card which has 4 hdmi connections for 4 dacs for LVDS I2S.

I want to say again that I am grateful for the help.  Thank you.  If you need more information or clues let me know.

[Awesome Donkey]

Is it correct though that ASIO4ALL is just a wrapper around WASAPI and that maybe it doesn't matter?

No, ASIO4ALL is a kernel streaming wrapper. Personally, I wouldn't bother with it.

[mattkhan]

REW is running on the same

JRiver sees the output devices as one; the Pink Faun WASAPI I2S High Definition Bridge.

thanks for the explanation, there is still one bit that I don't understand though... namely the relationship between the pink faun and jriver, previously you said

NAS>ethernet>PinkFaun streamer 2.16(Win 10 Pro/JRiver MC 24)

which I took to mean pinkfaun is before jriver in the signal chain but the latest post says it's the other way around so it's really

NAS > jriver > pinkfaun > DAC(s)

I'm not familiar with the pinkfaun but is it basically just a workstation (albeit one built to a particular specification)?

[mattkhan]

I'm going to assume the pinkfaun is functionally a PC for this post (as we seem to have a lengthy RTT on posts in this thread  ), ignore if that assumption does not hold...

the pinkfaun presents a single output device through which jriver addresses all speakers so the fact there are n DACs is irrelevant from a measurement point of view
you don't appear to have the ability to use a physical loopback but do want to time align, this means you must use an acoustic reference

IMV the "external sweep" method is the simplest, most direct, method to use in this situation

Unfortunately I now see I didn't write a method for this particular situation (external sweep on Windows) but it's quite simple

steps are

- generate a sweep as per https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Verifying_DSP_Studio#Generate_a_Measurement_Sweep
- configure REW to receive a signal from your mic
- set the timing reference as one particular main channel (whichever you like, you choose but keep it the same throughout)
- kick off the measurement as per https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Verifying_DSP_Studio#Verify_the_Signal_Chain_3
- play the sweep WAV in jriver (with mix stages used as appropriate to direct the sweep to the channel you want to measure ensuring that the timing reference always goes to the reference speaker)
- repeat for each channel

repeat til happy

not sure how many subs you have but I recommend http://andyc.diy-audio-engineering.org/mso/html/ for an semi automated approach to this problem, v powerful piece of software

[jjkale]

I am familiar with MSO.  More or less the impetus for this inquiry.
I want to get solid timing alignment between the mains and the subs (3).  I also have a miniDSP in the chain.
I think I understand your instructions.  I'm out of town a lot so my RTT may be lacking.   What?!

If I am concerned about LF, do I need to measure all the way to 22k+?
PinkFaun output is only rated to 24 bit, should I reset the measurement to 24?

Thanks very much

[mattkhan]

If I am concerned about LF, do I need to measure all the way to 22k+?

if you plan on using MSO then http://andyc.diy-audio-engineering.org/mso/html/measuring.html provides guidance

PinkFaun output is only rated to 24 bit, should I reset the measurement to 24?

reset what to 24? REW doesn't give you any choice on that with the java driver does it? or perhaps you mean the exported wav?

[jjkale]

The 24 refers to 24 bit samples.
In your instructions you have the user select 32 bit.  PinkFaun I2S is limited to 24/192.
So in setting the measurement sweep parameters, should I select 24 rather than 32?
Thx.

[jjkale]

Disregard.  I stand corrected.
PF I2S spec is 32 bit.  But if it was 24 bit, would the user set 24 bit in the measurements dropdown?
Sorry for the confusion, and thanks.

[jjkale]

The PS Audio dac is limited to 24 bits.  I knew that there was a 24 bit limit in there somewhere.

[jjkale]

Matt,
Sorry for being tedious.
Have been reviewing the MSO manual chapter you referenced above.  Does MC automatically add 10 dB to the Sub channel?  And do you recommend measuring the mains separately or as one?

[mattkhan]

The 24 refers to 24 bit samples.
In your instructions you have the user select 32 bit.  PinkFaun I2S is limited to 24/192.
So in setting the measurement sweep parameters, should I select 24 rather than 32?

ah ok, yes sure, It shouldn't make any difference mind you.

Does MC automatically add 10 dB to the Sub channel? 

MC's behaviour depends on exactly which options you have selected. There are measurements in each of the sections under https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DSP which hopefully shows you how it behaves.

And do you recommend measuring the mains separately or as one?

what do you mean by "as one"? mains + sub together?

[jjkale]

I am asking if you measure L only and then R only, or L+R.
The MSO instructions seem to offer either option.

[mattkhan]

I am asking if you measure L only and then R only, or L+R.
The MSO instructions seem to offer either option.

It is up to you, ultimately you have to choose something to optimise   so whichever works best in your room.

[jjkale]

Hello Matt,
I am stuck on trying to get an "external signal" to play with REW.
Is there a setting somewhere that I am missing?
Is the WDM driver selected in this scenario or not?
In following the instructions, when I click Start Measuring, the signal immediately plays rather than waiting for me to play from MC.  I assume this is the REW signal and not MC.
Sorry for being slow, what am I missing?

[mattkhan]

I guess you are outputting to the same audio device from rew rather than outputting to some other device, you want jriver to play the sweep after all

[jjkale]

So how do I output from JRiver rather than REW?

[jjkale]

I figured it out.
When the  Start Measuring button is pushed, REW plays through JRiver.  Duh, I guess.
I had thought that the play button on JRiver had to be pushed.
So how does REW gain control of what file to play in JRiver?  Just by WDM and setting it as the output device?

[mattkhan]

You either use wdm by playing rew to the default output device (which is set to wdm) OR you use the external sweep by playing a sweep with a timing reference in jriver, having rew output to some other device which plays to nowhere and waiting for the acoustic timing reference.