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Author Topic: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?  (Read 3943 times)

Von

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Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« on: June 26, 2018, 05:43:15 pm »

Hi,

I hope someone will be able to help med solve a problem I'm having with DSP and renderers.

Disclaimer: I am new to zones and DLNA.

I have created a zone and added DSP settings to it, and music is played with effects locally. When I link the zone to a renderer, no effects are applied. I tried to add DSP to the renderer instead, but I got this message: "DSP Studio is only available for local zones."

In this case, my goal is to be able to stream with DSP (volume leveling and crossfeed) to my Chord Poly. I also want gapless playback. So far I can play music through the Poly, but no effects are added, and playback is not gapless. I mainly use JRemote to control playback from a Mac with Media Network enabled. My plan is to have different zones set up for different DSP combinations, so that I can switch zones and link them to the Poly in JRemote.

Is what I'm trying to achieve possible?

And if anyone here has experience with this particular device, the Chord Poly, I would appreciate your input.
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MikeO

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2018, 07:26:53 am »

Try ...

Tools>Options>Media Network>Add and Configure DNLA Servers

You will get a dialog

Under Audio

Set Mode = Specified Output Format (only when necessary) -- either (ie not Original)
In Advanced you will now see ...DSP Studio Enabled (it will be greyed out if you select Original above)
Make you adjustments there

This will ONLY work with DLNA ie not with JRemote and native JRiver

Clear As Mud ??

Cheers

Mike
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Von

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2018, 02:08:07 pm »

Thank you. I will try this, but how can I control playback if I can't use JRemote or JRiver/MC? Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I am not familiar with DLNA.

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BradATIMA

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2018, 03:08:52 pm »

You can still control playback with JRemote and Media Center. What MikeO was saying is that the settings in the Add and Configure DLNA Servers dialog can only be applied to DLNA zones. The settings in the Add and Configure DLNA Servers dialog do not affect playback to local zones or JRemote.
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Von

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2018, 03:40:20 pm »

Thank you. I have now added a new DLNA server and set DSP settings for it. How do I proceed? The JRiverWiki says the server should be visible under playing now, but I can't see it.

I really appreciate your help in setting this up.  :)

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JimH

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2018, 03:58:32 pm »

Did you turn on Media Network?

Did you open up Playing Now?
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BradATIMA

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2018, 04:04:58 pm »

If you created a new DLNA Server configuration, you will need to associate it with the zone for the DLNA device. Right-click on the appropriate zone from the left-hand tree (under Playing Now). Near the bottom of the menu that pops up should be the option "Associate with DLNA Server." Select the name of the server you created to associate it with that zone.
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Von

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2018, 04:12:22 pm »

Did you turn on Media Network?

Did you open up Playing Now?

Yes. Media Network has been on previously as well, as I have been using JRemote.

Near the bottom of the menu that pops up should be the option "Associate with DLNA Server."

I do not see this option.
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BradATIMA

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2018, 04:22:13 pm »

I do not see this option.

That probably means it's not a DLNA zone. If you hover the mouse over the zone, does it display Device Address followed by an IP address?
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Von

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2018, 04:30:23 pm »

That probably means it's not a DLNA zone. If you hover the mouse over the zone, does it display Device Address followed by an IP address?
No, only Zone ID and Zone Index. I probably did not create the zone correctly, but I can't find more than one way of doing it. I still end up with the same kind of zone.
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swiv3d

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2018, 04:38:46 pm »

Under playing now the device you wish to play to should appear in the list of DLNA devices. See my attached picture. Right mouse click on the device you want and then select Associate with dlna server select the server you have created from the list that appears. For example if I right click on the device N-50 I would then associate it with my audiophile 24 bit dlna server, but the two tv devices are associated with an mp3 server because they can't handle audiophile outputs.
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Von

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2018, 04:57:21 pm »

Under playing now the device you wish to play to should appear in the list of DLNA devices.
That did it! I had to choose the device (which I have been referring to as the renderer) and not the zone I created. Playback now works like I wanted it to, I'm listening to my Chord Poly with DSP. However, I still don't get gapless playback, I get about a quarter of a second of silence. Any ideas?

Since my renderer is now my zone, I also need to figure out how to set up different zones for different DSP modes with the same renderer...
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swiv3d

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2018, 05:35:36 pm »

Hi Von,
If you right click on the Chord Poly renderer (like you did previously and select DLNA Contoller Option (which is just below the associate with dlna server you used before) and make sure that disable setnext support (for broken renderers)  is NOT ticked. You should in theory then get gapless playback if you have selected those options in the tools>options>audio menu.
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Von

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2018, 05:46:42 pm »

Hi Von,
If you right click on the Chord Poly renderer (like you did previously and select DLNA Contoller Option (which is just below the associate with dlna server you used before) and make sure that disable setnext support (for broken renderers)  is NOT ticked. You should in theory then get gapless playback if you have selected those options in the tools>options>audio menu.
Hi, thanks for joining. I checked the DLNA Controller Option settings, and nothing is checked. Also, gapless is selected under Tools>Options>Audio. Gapless works fine when playing locally and through JRemote on an iPhone or iPad, so my problem seems to be with DLNA.

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Von

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2018, 06:16:57 pm »

I'm going to have to continue testing tomorrow, but please post your ideas if you have anything to contribute.  :)
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swiv3d

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2018, 11:26:59 am »

What you want to do is not possible from the MC Zones point of view. If you have a dedicated Mojo app that lets you link the Mojo poly to the dlna servers in MC then you can achieve your aims. For example I have a pioneer n-50 in my system. If Ipush a stream to it it refuses to do gapless playback, but if I use it's dedicated app to link it to the dlna servers on MC it will pull the tracks down and will also give me gapless playback. I have set up a number of different dlna servers with different DSP settings which seems to work well.
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Von

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2018, 06:15:46 pm »

What you want to do is not possible from the MC Zones point of view.
Thank you. That's too bad, I would like to be able to just use JRemote and MC. I don't think there is a dedicated app, but there should be third party apps. I will try to do some research.

Having access to just one zone or DSP setup at the time is something I guess I can live with, but the lack of gapless playback is an annoyance. :-\

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swiv3d

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2018, 07:25:54 pm »

You might want to check this out: https://darko.audio/2018/03/going-home-and-away-with-the-chord-poly/
the more intersting stuff is towards the end.
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Von

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2018, 03:47:14 pm »

You might want to check this out: https://darko.audio/2018/03/going-home-and-away-with-the-chord-poly/
the more intersting stuff is towards the end.
Thanks. I have read that article, and I have tried the iOS app Glider. It seems to work well with regards to seeing the library on my server, but I can't find the Poly on the output alternatives. When I select a song to play, Glider lists all the zones I have in MC, but not the Poly. The Poly is listed together with the zones under Playing Now in MC.

Any idea why it's not visible as an output/destination/renderer (what's the correct term?) from the app?   ?

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swiv3d

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2018, 04:34:32 pm »

Sorry Von I have no knowledge of the glider app and I don't have a mac, so I can't help you - perhaps one of the high flyers would like to come in and help.
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Von

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2018, 06:05:40 pm »

I'm still struggling with this. So far, I have not found any way to link the Poly to a certain DLNA server. The only way I can get a connection seems to be by choosing the Poly Renderer as a Zone in MC.

I am able to play gaplessly via AirPlay from my iPad to the Poly if I use JRemote to play on "this device", but then I can't use DSP...

Where would I be able to see the different DLNA servers I have set up? They do not show up in JRemote or in MC on other computers on my local network. Perhaps this means there is something wrong with my setup?

A related question: When I play from MC to the Poly renderer, I have noticed that the volume slider in MC is active. Is this normal behaviour when streaming to a renderer? Shouldn't the volume handling be done by the renderer?

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swiv3d

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2018, 06:54:15 pm »

Do you have a smartphone app to control the poly? If so you can set the mode of the device to 'other' and you should be able to see the dlna servers you have set up in MC. DLNA servers are not zones so they will not show up in the playing now section in MC's display view. They are designed to be seen by a dlna compliant device so that they can be selected for playback of media. Because the chord poly doesn't have a screen or a dedicated app you need to have a smartphone app which can link to the poly and be used as the screen for selecting the dlna servers in MC.
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Von

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2018, 11:46:49 am »

Do you have a smartphone app to control the poly? If so you can set the mode of the device to 'other' and you should be able to see the dlna servers you have set up in MC.
Yes, Chord offer the GoFigure app for setting up the Poly via Bluetooth, but I can't find any way to connect to DLNA servers from the Poly. The manual only describes how to use the Poly with its Micro SD card as a DLNA server.

If anyone is interested, here is the Poly manual: https://chordelectronics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Poly-User-Manual-English.pdf

And here is the GoFigure manual: https://chordelectronics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Gofigure-Manual-English.pdf

I think I will have to contact Chord's support for help, hopefully it will be possible to do what I'm trying to do.

But to follow up my own question in my previous post, I would be interested to know how DLNA servers set up in MC should be visible to other applications. I can't seem to find them from MC on another computer.

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swiv3d

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2018, 01:44:00 pm »

The gofigure app is really only for initially setting up the poly so that it can join your local network. You need an app on your smartphone or ipad which will link to the poly via your network and act as its screen. You will then be able to tell it which dlna servers to use. There are suggestions in the manual about suitable smartphone apps to do this or you can google it. Read section 13 of the manual and section 10 part 3.
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Von

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2018, 03:39:43 pm »

Yes, I had been trying the Glider app, so far without much success. I just tried 8player, it seems pretty easy to make it work, but not gapless so far. Also looking at C5 Creation app.

Also, it seems to me that these apps may work similarly to MC, and simply be pushing streams to the Poly.

Coming from MC and JRemote, I'm not very impressed with the interface of these other apps yet. Can anyone tell me why what I want to do can't be done natively in MC? It seems logical to me that it should be, but then again, I don't know too much about this.
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MikeO

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2018, 03:13:10 am »

I am getting a bit confused

What does your List Of Devices , Top Left look like mine is attached

if your DAC shows up in this list then you should be able to use JRemote to control it

If not then DLNA

Configuring JRemote is in a different section of the Media Network config screen where you found DLNA servers its under ADVANCED

This allows you to configure

maybe post a pic to help us

mike

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MikeO

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2018, 03:17:47 am »

Have you got the Audio Section set for Gapless?

See Pic ...
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MikeO

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2018, 03:33:22 am »

AndrewFG is the DLNA wizard , maybe he can help

Mike
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MikeO

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2018, 03:35:53 am »

Try an app called Creative 5 its an iPad , iPhone app

It may help connect up

Mike
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swiv3d

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2018, 04:11:52 pm »

Yes, I had been trying the Glider app, so far without much success. I just tried 8player, it seems pretty easy to make it work, but not gapless so far. Also looking at C5 Creation app.

Also, it seems to me that these apps may work similarly to MC, and simply be pushing streams to the Poly.

The apps are just acting as a screen for your chord poly allowing you to choose the dlna server to PULL files from the mc server library to your chord poly. if you have the gapless playback settings correct in MC's Tools>Options>Audio you should be getting gapless playback and dsp settings applied to the music files.
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Von

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #30 on: July 06, 2018, 04:34:58 pm »

I am getting a bit confused

What does your List Of Devices , Top Left look like mine is attached

if your DAC shows up in this list then you should be able to use JRemote to control it
Hi,

I'm attaching a list of my Playing Now section, showing two zones I have created and the Poly renderer. I am able to play music with DSP to the Poly using MC or JRemote, but it's not gapless.
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Von

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #31 on: July 06, 2018, 04:37:01 pm »

Have you got the Audio Section set for Gapless?

See Pic ...
Yes, I have the same gapless settings as in your picture.
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Von

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2018, 04:39:25 pm »

Try an app called Creative 5 its an iPad , iPhone app
I have tried C5 Creation, 8player and Glider. No gapless playback.
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Von

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2018, 04:45:03 pm »

The apps are just acting as a screen for your chord poly allowing you to choose the dlna server to PULL files from the mc server library to your chord poly. if you have the gapless playback settings correct in MC's Tools>Options>Audio you should be getting gapless playback and dsp settings applied to the music files.
OK, I was asking because the process of playing to the Poly from one of these apps feels similar to choosing a renderer in MC.

For instance, Glider asks me to choose an output when I want to play music, and shows a list of the MC zones with the MC icon, "Poly" with a Poly icon, and "Loudspeaker" with an iPhone icon.
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swiv3d

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2018, 04:53:49 pm »

If you right mouse click on your poly dsp zone and look to the bottom of the popup list at DLNA controller options, has it got disable setnext unticked?
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Von

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Re: Gapless playback and DSP when streaming to renderer?
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2018, 05:09:40 pm »

If you right mopuse cliuck on your poly dsp zone and look to the bottom of the popup list at DLNA controller options has it got disable setnext unticked?
Not if I right click on that zone, because there are no DLNA controller options for the zones. There is for the Chord Poly:My Poly [Renderer] though, and it is unticked.
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