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Author Topic: Stuttering with WDM and MQA  (Read 13972 times)

Manfred

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #50 on: July 28, 2018, 08:30:43 am »

Anna Netrebko - Puccini; Diana Krall Turn Up The Quiet
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dtc

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #51 on: July 28, 2018, 08:37:31 am »

Both of these play at 96 KHz for me and stutter badly. If you are seeing 192 KHz then I think something is upsampling between Tidal and WDM.  Software decoded MQA does not come out at 192 KHz as far as I know.

If you play a non Masters album, what input sampling rate do you get?
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Manfred

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #52 on: July 28, 2018, 09:25:57 am »

HaHa… Played Nova from RL Grime

->24 bit 192 kHz

I think MC WDM displays what is configured in sound properties->Device Properties->Extended (24 bit 192kHz)
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dtc

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #53 on: July 28, 2018, 09:43:32 am »

WDM correctly reports the input sample rate. If you are seeing the Shared Mode sample rate, then exclusive mode is not being used. Do you have allow Exclusive Mode set in the WDM driver with Windows Sound setup - Properties -  Advanced?
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Manfred

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #54 on: July 28, 2018, 09:46:57 am »

yes
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dtc

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #55 on: July 28, 2018, 11:05:21 am »

Changing the shared model sample rate would confirm that you are not getting exclusive mode. If the Tidal mode setting has exclusive mode checked, then I am not sure why you are in shared mode.
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Manfred

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #56 on: July 28, 2018, 11:21:23 am »

Sorry -I made a fault - in Tidal I thought the button to enable exclusive mode was on. It was not. It works the opposite way.

Now it shows - D. Krall Turn Up To be quiet - input 96 kHz/24 bit and it is stuttering.
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dtc

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #57 on: July 28, 2018, 12:19:11 pm »

Glad you figured it out. Hopefully Hendrik can find a solution to the stuttering problem.
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mkcarnut

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #58 on: July 29, 2018, 01:08:44 pm »

Sorry -I made a fault - in Tidal I thought the button to enable exclusive mode was on. It was not. It works the opposite way.

Now it shows - D. Krall Turn Up To be quiet - input 96 kHz/24 bit and it is stuttering.

Where is the button in Tidal to enable exclusive mode?  I don't see anything (PC Tidal).

Mark
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dtc

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #59 on: July 29, 2018, 01:29:08 pm »

Where is the button in Tidal to enable exclusive mode?  I don't see anything (PC Tidal).

Mark

When you set the Sound Output device there is a More Settings option. You can enable exclusive mode there.
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mkcarnut

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #60 on: July 30, 2018, 03:15:23 pm »

When you set the Sound Output device there is a More Settings option. You can enable exclusive mode there.

Interesting - not in the version of Tidal I have...which is version:  2.1.21.456 (W: 3.2.0--4)

This is PC Tidal.  Which one are you referring to?


Never mind - found it...it was hiding.

Mark
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dtc

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #61 on: July 30, 2018, 03:22:57 pm »

Interesting - not in the version of Tidal I have...which is version:  2.1.21.456 (W: 3.2.0--4)

This is PC Tidal.  Which one are you referring to?


Never mind - found it...it was hiding.

Mark

It almost looks greyed out. Not that obvious. Enjoy.
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Hendrik

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #62 on: July 31, 2018, 06:10:51 am »

The next build of MC24 will have some changes in the WDM driver that make it more reliable. I've been considering making the buffer size (and as such the latency) configurable, as that may also have an impact on the performance depending on the PCs performance. Will just have to figure out how to pass configuration to a driver.
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tyler69

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #63 on: July 31, 2018, 08:46:38 am »

A buffer setting would be much appreciated.
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Manfred

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #64 on: July 31, 2018, 11:35:32 am »

If it's available I will test it with Tidal.
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RD James

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #65 on: July 31, 2018, 04:10:42 pm »

The next build of MC24 will have some changes in the WDM driver that make it more reliable. I've been considering making the buffer size (and as such the latency) configurable, as that may also have an impact on the performance depending on the PCs performance. Will just have to figure out how to pass configuration to a driver.
That would be great, as I'm still having trouble with the WDM driver (similar issues that Tidal had) when using other applications such as VB-Audio VoiceMeeter Banana.
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Hendrik

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #66 on: August 01, 2018, 06:08:57 am »

Another day of working on it later, and I'm pretty sure to have found the underlying cause for the glitches, with an explanation that actually makes sense, so now its running stable for me even with the minimal buffer size right now. Still more testing to do, but it looks good for the next build.
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #67 on: August 01, 2018, 06:29:58 am »

I'm sure there's a lot of Tidal + WDM driver users who will be happy to hear that.

Just curious though, what was the underlying cause?
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tyler69

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #68 on: August 01, 2018, 06:51:22 am »

When watching videos through a webbrowser, I could never get a "crack"-free audio stream through WDM -regardless of buffer settings in MC. I do hope this also fixes my issues.
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Hendrik

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #69 on: August 01, 2018, 07:20:57 am »

Just curious though, what was the underlying cause?

When an audio frame bigger then the internal buffer of the driver would arrive, which is common in exclusive mode (although not necessarily limited to that), the driver would immediately queue multiple buffers for sending to Media Center.  Due to the way the kernel's work queues function, those jobs could be executed out of order if they had been submitted nearly at the same time.  One can imagine that out of order audio doesn't sound good.
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fitbrit

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #70 on: August 02, 2018, 08:45:49 pm »

Thanks for your work on this Hendrik. I am looking forward to trying it.
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macallan18

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #71 on: August 09, 2018, 04:16:13 pm »

When an audio frame bigger then the internal buffer of the driver would arrive, which is common in exclusive mode (although not necessarily limited to that), the driver would immediately queue multiple buffers for sending to Media Center.  Due to the way the kernel's work queues function, those jobs could be executed out of order if they had been submitted nearly at the same time.  One can imagine that out of order audio doesn't sound good.

Would it be possible to get added as a beta tester so I could try this?
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Hilton

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #72 on: August 09, 2018, 10:49:13 pm »

When an audio frame bigger then the internal buffer of the driver would arrive, which is common in exclusive mode (although not necessarily limited to that), the driver would immediately queue multiple buffers for sending to Media Center.  Due to the way the kernel's work queues function, those jobs could be executed out of order if they had been submitted nearly at the same time.  One can imagine that out of order audio doesn't sound good.

Nice investigative work Hendrik - I too will appreciate this fix!

Cheers
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JimH

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #73 on: August 10, 2018, 12:50:55 am »

Would it be possible to get added as a beta tester so I could try this?
We're not adding anyone at this time.  Thanks.
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kimschips81

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #74 on: August 18, 2018, 12:54:50 pm »

Have any of you tried the 24.0.46 version with Tidal master recordings?
Best regards.
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dtc

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #75 on: August 18, 2018, 01:06:50 pm »

The new versions works fine for normal streaming of Tidal Masters. I still get quick glitches at the start when changing tracks manually, but I do not do that often. Hendrik knows about the glitches. Overall, the new versions works for almost all normal use. Huge improvement.
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johnvfish

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #76 on: September 07, 2018, 01:14:21 pm »

I too have stuttering and glitching with the WDM driver.  In all of the tests below, the JRiver engine was running at 24-bit 96kHz.

Test #1
I have tried every combination of buffer settings for both the JRiver output and the WDM input.  All stutter and glitch.
Test #2
I have tried every combination of bit rate and bit depth.  All of them stutter and glitch.
Test #3
I tried streaming using Chrome and MS Edge.  Both stutter and glitch.
Test #4
Using Chrome and Edge for streaming , I went back to the ASIO input through Audinate Dante VIA.  It sounds perfect.  I even left the Chrome stream running and switched back and forth between ASIO and WDM.  ASIO is fine, WDM stutters and glitches.

I would prefer to use the WDM driver for convenience, but the crackling is driving me nuts.  What can I do?
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JimH

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #77 on: September 07, 2018, 01:15:05 pm »

What version of MC?
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johnvfish

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #78 on: September 07, 2018, 01:21:31 pm »

Media Center 24.24.0.45

Windows 10 64-bit (latest)
Intel Core -7-7700K CPU
48 GB Memory

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Matt

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #79 on: September 07, 2018, 01:46:23 pm »

Build 46 had some WDM improvements, so please update to the latest.
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johnvfish

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Re: Stuttering with WDM and MQA
« Reply #80 on: September 07, 2018, 02:03:03 pm »

Thank you Matt, that did the trick.

Thank you!
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