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Author Topic: Television Recordings repeat or ignore rules randomly  (Read 2453 times)

boozemun

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Television Recordings repeat or ignore rules randomly
« on: July 14, 2018, 04:24:41 pm »

television recording just ignores my rules... it makes no sense. I have it set to record All Showings on all channels of Maigret and to not record shows with the same description that have been recorded in the past. As you can see the description is exactly the same yet it keeps recording the same episode over and over yet ignores other episodes that have not been recorded in the past... see images. It does this on other shows as well... how hard is it to make a program that follows the rules I have set? Why I bother struggling with this app I don't know... please help...
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Yaobing

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Re: Television Recordings repeat or ignore rules randomly
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2018, 05:47:49 pm »

What you showed in your first screenshot is just a list of possible future recordings.  Having shows repeated on that list is fine.  If you have identical recordings that have actually been recorded, then we might have a problem.  One thing that I know will happen is if a new airing of an already recorded show has longer duration, we do record the show again, out of caution since the earlier recording might have been incomplete.
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boozemun

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Re: Television Recordings repeat or ignore rules randomly
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2018, 06:04:35 pm »

No the list is "To Be Recorded" not just a list of shows. It will record those exactly as it shows them.
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Yaobing

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Re: Television Recordings repeat or ignore rules randomly
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2018, 06:10:23 pm »

No the list is "To Be Recorded" not just a list of shows. It will record those exactly as it shows them.

I know it is "To be recorded", but it is not strictly "to be recorded".  They will not all be recorded.  I might rename that list as "Possibly to be recorded", but it is just too wordy.
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boozemun

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Re: Television Recordings repeat or ignore rules randomly
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2018, 06:15:35 pm »

That makes no sense why would it be "possibly" to be recorded? Though it would not surprise me... what with the horrible un-intuitive interface and confusing menus of Media Center.  I assure you it will record them all I have been fighting with this for years. I will post the recorded shows later.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Television Recordings repeat or ignore rules randomly
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2018, 06:22:39 pm »

I will be interested to see that list Boozemun.

What Yaobing says is correct. Multiple instances of a program will be selected as "To be recorded" until the first instance is successfully recorded. Then all later instances that match your rules will be deselected and will not be recorded.

The example in the images you posted should work fine. If you have been fighting this for years then previously your rules, or the EPG data on which they rely, must not have been appropriate or consistent
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

Yaobing

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Re: Television Recordings repeat or ignore rules randomly
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2018, 06:25:20 pm »

A repeated show is possibly recorded, if the initial recording was not successful.
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boozemun

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Re: Television Recordings repeat or ignore rules randomly
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2018, 06:29:12 pm »

OK I appreciate the help but in my experience all the items listed in the "to be recorded" list WILL be recorded as they should be because that's what it says.... I will post it later.
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boozemun

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Re: Television Recordings repeat or ignore rules randomly
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2018, 06:37:27 pm »

I will be interested to see that list Boozemun.

What Yaobing says is correct. Multiple instances of a program will be selected as "To be recorded" until the first instance is successfully recorded. Then all later instances that match your rules will be deselected and will not be recorded.

The example in the images you posted should work fine. If you have been fighting this for years then previously your rules, or the EPG data on which they rely, must not have been appropriate or consistent

I have tried different program listing services all the way to completely uninstalling the program and wiping all the TV info and starting over it still does the same thing. If what you say were true then how can anyone even use the rules?.. If there is no way to check what the rule changes actually change?? Unfortunately  since I am constantly deleting duplicates I don't have any to show you I will have to wait until it records the duplicates again, thanks.
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boozemun

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Re: Television Recordings repeat or ignore rules randomly
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2018, 06:47:11 pm »

P.S. What about the episodes it just ignores for no apparent reason?
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RoderickGI

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Re: Television Recordings repeat or ignore rules randomly
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2018, 07:35:21 pm »

If MC actually does record repeats of programs even after the first or subsequent airings have been successfully recorded, then there are a few possibilities as to why;

1. As Yaobing reminded me, if the duration of the first recording is less than a later recording, MC will record the second version. The assumption being that something was missed on the first recording, so it would be incomplete, and hence, not a successful recording. I don't usually see this issue though.

2. The EPG data is different for the first and subsequent recordings. I see this all the time, where most often the description changes on subsequent recordings, but also often the episode name is dropped and only the Series name is given, or perhaps only the episode name is given. MC relies on the EPG data. That's all it can do. As my EPG data isn't very reliable, I use "Series" name and "Episode" name to decide if a program is a repeat, which means I sometimes get duplicates.
With the programs you highlighted in the first image, and using Series Name and Description to determine if later airings are repeats, MC should do the correct thing and only record the first airing.

3. The EPG data has changed between the first and later airings. If that happens then your rule could fail, and a later airing will be recorded. Check the EPG data after the first recording, if the later airings are still selected to be recorded.


To be honest though, I haven't checked all the logic for a while, so something may have changed or been broken. But as you say it has been happening for years, if later airing are being recorded there must be some reason.

From a user perspective it would be nice if only the first airing of a program was shown in the "To be recorded" list, and if it didn't work a later airing would be added. Yaobing may have been able to code the software that way. But from memory then the second of back to back repeats would get missed, if the first failed. MC checks what needs to be recorded pretty regularly, but it doesn't do it constantly. If it did it would be loading the PC all the time, which would be bad.

Recordings can fail because an HTPC didn't wake or was locked up, or power failures, or there were no tuners available, etc. Usually things out of MCs control. So we, as users, want to make sure that a following airing gets picked up. The current software design does the best job at doing that, with the minor inconvenience that multiple airings of one program show up in the "To be recorded" list, until a successful recording is made.

P.S. What about the episodes it just ignores for no apparent reason?

Do you mean different episode from an episode already recorded? I don't get that. If it is happening, there is a difference in the EPG data that the Recording Rules don't take into account. I've seen stuff like "CSI" sometimes being listed as "C.S.I." and similar. A full stop or colon at the end of the Series Name, when I am doing an exact match. But if my rules are good, and the EPG has the data, MC picks it up as to be recorded.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

RoderickGI

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Re: Television Recordings repeat or ignore rules randomly
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2018, 07:53:06 pm »

BTW I have built a custom view to check EPG data MC knows about, which helps in determining if rules will work.

This post here https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,102102.0.html has an image attached showing how it is set up. Maybe you could create a similar view to check what is going on?
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

Yaobing

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Re: Television Recordings repeat or ignore rules randomly
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2018, 09:55:29 pm »

I created a recording rule for "Maigret", using the same rules as you did.  Initially, just as you saw on your computer, a few later airings of the same show are listed under "To be recorded".  After the show was recorded (from 7 pm to 8:30 pm), the repeats all disappeared from the "To be recorded" list.  I am sure you will see the same on your computer.

One possible way this "already recorded show" can get recorded again is, besides what RoderickGI said (about later airings have different EPG data - such as Description), is when an already recorded show's metadata get changed by "Get Movie and TV Info".  That is a real possibility.  If you see this happening a lot, you should consider not requiring "Description" field as a must compare field when determining whether a show has already been recorded.


P.S. What about the episodes it just ignores for no apparent reason?

If what you meant is a scheduled recording does not actually get recorded, there is always a reason, which may or may not be obvious.  I will not be able to answer the question without knowing more details.  Next time when something like this happens, please come to this board and tell us exactly what happened - like which show, time and channel, your recording rule.  We will try helping you figure this out.  It could be caused by a bug, in which case I would love to learn about it and fix the bug; or it could be caused by your incorrect specification in the recording rule, in which case we could help your correct it.

You and I are in the same TV market, and we share many of the same TV channels.  This can be helpful.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Television Recordings repeat or ignore rules randomly
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2018, 10:13:02 pm »

One possible way this "already recorded show" can get recorded again is, besides what RoderickGI said (about later airings have different EPG data - such as Description), is when an already recorded show's metadata get changed by "Get Movie and TV Info".  That is a real possibility.  If you see this happening a lot, you should consider not requiring "Description" field as a must compare field when determining whether a show has already been recorded.

That is a good tip, particularly the comment about Descriptions changing, because the "Get Movie and TV Info" function almost always changes the program Description. Just another reason to never use the Description field as a comparison field, and always use the Series name and Episode name.

I always thought that the comparison data was stored in a separate "Recordings" database, but looking now I see that there isn't such a beast. Files are just tagged as TV Recordings for display in the Television > Recordings page, aren't they. Or more correctly from memory, if they have a Recording Rule associated with them, then they are considered TV Recordings. I think you have said that previously.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

boozemun

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Re: Television Recordings repeat or ignore rules randomly
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2019, 11:07:47 pm »

I never got around to posting that info.

After a few updates the problem seemed to go away now it only records a couple minutes of the duplicate see here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1uplmq2ujzj14ec/Annotation%202019-07-14%20225952.png?dl=0
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Yaobing

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Re: Television Recordings repeat or ignore rules randomly
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2019, 09:04:08 am »

Thanks for the screenshot.  It does tell that there is a problem.  However, it does not tell what might have caused the problem.  For example, did you check the "Description" column and see whether the short duplicate recording have the identical or different Description?  What is your recording rule, say, for "American Experience" series?  These may provide some clues.
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boozemun

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Re: Television Recordings repeat or ignore rules randomly
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2019, 10:48:15 am »

Screenshot shows another problem windows open too big for the screen.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t01lsl6bp4q1l6f/Annotation%202019-07-15%20104459.png?dl=0
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Yaobing

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Re: Television Recordings repeat or ignore rules randomly
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2019, 11:25:09 am »

Screenshot shows another problem windows open too big for the screen.

Thanks for reporting.  What is the screen resolution of your computer?  We created the wizard window with some extra room to spare at the bottom in order to accommodate people using large text font.  I will take another look and find a better solution.
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boozemun

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Re: Television Recordings repeat or ignore rules randomly
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2019, 11:57:49 am »

4K
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Yaobing

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Re: Television Recordings repeat or ignore rules randomly
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2019, 08:19:24 am »

I schedule a subscription to "American Experience" exactly the way you did:

on channels 11-1, 11-2, and 11-3,
All Showings,
Do not record programs that have been recorded in the past,
Compare fields: Name, Series name, Description, Episode number

Yesterday, the episode "Change the Moon: A Place Beyond the Sky" was recorded on channel 11-1.  This morning the repeat showing on channel 11-2 was not recorded, not the first two minutes either.

I checked my code, and found that we do use the following to prevent recording repeats:

If the EPG entries have identical Program ID, the repeat show is not recorded, even if Name, Series Name, etc. are different.  The comparison of Name, Series Name, Description, etc. matters only if the shows have different Program ID, or do not have Program ID at all.

Next time when the same issue happens, please take a look at the EPG (RoderickGI suggested a way of creating a EPG view) and see what you find.

If Program ID does not exist for a show, or the repeat showing has a different ID in your EPG, then comparison of Name, etc. kicks in.  In such case, you can experiment with specifying fewer fields to compare.  In general, specifying more comparison fields allows you to avoid missed recordings, but runs the risk of getting repeated recordings.  On the other hand, specifying fewer fields to record reduces the chance of repeats, but increases the chance of missing some shows.
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Yaobing

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Re: Television Recordings repeat or ignore rules randomly
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2019, 11:09:22 am »

Build 80 is out on the MC25 board.  When you get a chance please install that build and see if the TV Recording setup wizard window is still too tall to fit on your monitor.

Because you have a 4K monitor, we do some scaling up of all our windows.  I could not figure out why it did not work on yours.  The changes in build 80 try to get around the issue in a different way.

I am curious, your screenshots are very wide, like 5055 x 2139, with an aspect ratio of close to 1 : 2.35.  Is this the shape of your monitor or do you just use a narrow strip of it?
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boozemun

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Re: Television Recordings repeat or ignore rules randomly
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2019, 09:57:56 am »

I have dual monitors, kind of... using the latest version of MC and now I get duplicates that record for 8 hours!!
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Yaobing

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Re: Television Recordings repeat or ignore rules randomly
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2019, 04:22:12 pm »

I have dual monitors, kind of... using the latest version of MC and now I get duplicates that record for 8 hours!!

Are all three instances of the recordings playable?  Were they recorded using three different tuners?  Do you have three different channels that aired the same show at the same time?

If you click "TV Logs" you may see entries that tell you when a recording was started and when it was ended, and on which tuner and which channel it was recorded.
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