Topic: Suggestions for making TV setup easier (Read 4481 times)

ABA · « **on:** July 29, 2018, 02:17:38 pm »

Hi,

Please find below a couple of suggestions that could improve the smoothness of setting up TV in MC as I find the process rather tedious and the user interface out dated:

1. Implement NIT scan, so that users don't need to maintain the static XML frequency tables

2. Channel name should NOT have channel number as prefix

3. Moving channels up and down the channel list should change the channel number correspondingly

4. Manually re-assigning a channel number to a channel should offer to automatically re-assign the channel numbers of channels with greater channel numbers.

Thanks.

PS: Where can I upload a frequency table to have it included in future builds?

Yaobing · « **Reply #1 on:** July 29, 2018, 03:40:04 pm »

1. On my list.

2. We used to have it as an option. I don't remember how we changed it. When there are different channels with the same name, having channel number in the name can help. I can make it optional again.

3. No. I don't think, or not sure, it is a good idea.

4. Same as 3. Channel numbers are not simply ordinal numbers of your channels.

Quote from: ABA on July 29, 2018, 02:17:38 pm

PS: Where can I upload a frequency table to have it included in future builds?

Email it to me.

ABA · « **Reply #2 on:** July 29, 2018, 04:25:47 pm »

Thanks for a quick response.

1. Great - do you see it coming in MC24?

2. Great if you could make it an option again. I guess identical names should only occur if you have multiple signal sources (assuming service providers don’t duplicate channel names). In that case, a layer, which merges identical channels together could be useful (like DVB Logic’s TVSource).

3. & 4. Hmm.... Any TV set I have seen numbers the channels based on how the channels are sorted from top to buttom. Why would you need it any other way?

5. I forgot: An integrated EPG data scanner like DVB Logic’s TVSource has it (they call it an EIT scanner).

PS: email address?

Yaobing · « **Reply #3 on:** July 29, 2018, 05:10:53 pm »

yaobing at jriver dot com

RoderickGI · « **Reply #4 on:** July 29, 2018, 05:20:48 pm »

3. No.

4. No.

The Channel Number is the Channel Number. It can't just be changed arbitrarily. It is the way the broadcaster identifies their channel. Now if you are talking about a sequence number for sorting channels, that is an entirely different thing. You can re-sequence the channels under "Options > Television > Channels > Manage Channels" using the "Move Up" and "Move Down" buttons. No sequence number required. Save the sequence using the "Save channel order" button so that it will be used in the future. Then if you click on the "Channel" heading in "Manage Channels", MC will toggle through the available sort sequences, "123 ABC" (alphanumeric), "ABC" (Alphabetic), and "Custom", which is your saved sort sequence.

2. I actually thought there used to be a setting to include the Channel Number as a prefix or not in MC, but I can't find that now. I thought my EPG source, "EPG Collector", may have been doing it, but I just checked and it isn't; the XMLTV file doesn't have the channel number prefixed. Or maybe it is part of the scanning/TV setup process. I haven't run that in an age. Hmmm, I can't remember. But the prefixing is happening in MC.

I think I must have added the prefixes into MC manually. If MC has done it automatically, you can remove the Channel Number prefix "Options > Television > Channels > Manage Channels > Edit > Name". MC will remember that and not add them back, unless maybe you redo TV setup at some stage.

If you have logos for all your channels (you do have logo images for all your channels, right?), then you can check "Options > Television > Guide > Hide channel names in Theatre View guide when channel logos are available" and you won't see the channel number prefix anyway.

Thinking further, what EPG data source are you using ABA?

PS:
5. MC has had that for years for ATSC broadcasts. I can't remember if DVB-T OTA EPG scanning was finished or not, as I haven't used it. But it was being worked on.

PPS:
DVB Logic call it an EIT (Event Information Table) scanner because it scans the EIT data broadcast OTA. In the past Australia also broadcast MHEG5 data, like the UK still does. MHEG5 data is much better than EIT data, which is usually pretty basic. That is why lots of people seek better sources of EPG data. DVB Logic isn't particularly special in this capability.

ABA · « **Reply #5 on:** July 30, 2018, 09:02:24 am »

3. & 4.: Yes, I am talking about sequence numbers and I understand you can change the channel ordering without changing the sequence numbers and vice versa. But, I like my channels in a certain order and I like sequence numbers to be sequential (I know - call me old fashined). What I am suggesting is that it becomes easier editing the channel ordering. Yes, you can move a channel up or down the list, but that does not change the sequence number of that channel. So, if your channel order looks like this immediately after scanning

Seq# / Channel name
#1 / 1. BBC World
#2 / 2. Channel Four
#3 / 3. Sky TV

and you move Sky up as the second channel, Sky will still be assigned sequence number 3 (and Channel Four number 2). In other words, I have to manually edit Sky's sequence number to 2 and Channel Four's to 3 which becomes quite tedious when dealing with 50+ channels - this should happen automatically when moving the channel.
Additionally and going back to the original channel ordering, manually changing Sky's sequence number from 3 to 2, should automatically move it to second place in the list AND re-assign sequence numbers that are greater than or equal to 2 (in this example re-assign Channel Four from sequence number 2 to 3).

2. Agree - prefixing channels names takes place as part of the scan-for-channels process. Yes, I can manually edit the names, but again this is tedious for 50+ channels - and it comes in addition to the manual ordering of channels and sequence numbers described above.

Further, channel logos are only found automatically by MC (provided they have been copied to the right folder), if the channel name matches the name of the logo file. So as long as channel names are prefixed with sequence numbers and these are volatile (subject to be changed by the service provider), channel names in MC become volatile and hence links to logo-files can be broken. Speaking of the location of logo files, it would be good if one could point to the folder containing logo files rather having to copy them to the system drive.

5. I am based in Denmark, the signal is DVB-C which is captured by an HDHomeRun HDHR3-EU. All EPG data is delivered over the signal by my service provider. Data is very good quality and highly reliable. Today I use an external program to extract the data and put it in an XML-file for MC24 to import. The extraction process is run once every 24 hours using Windows Task Scheduler. Rather than having to use an external program to do this, I would like for MC itself to be able to extract EPG data (DVBLogic does this). Besides, the external program's setup also has to be maintained when my service provider rearranges their channel setup.

Yaobing · « **Reply #6 on:** July 30, 2018, 11:01:19 am »

"TV Channel Number" is not used as a sequence number. Your expectation is different.

For DVB channel scanning, if we find a channel number associated with the channel, we use it. It has nothing to do with how you order the channels. Usually it is aligned with what people traditionally associate with a particular channel. For example, in my town the PBS station was on channel 11. I call this channel "channel 11" no matter how I order my channels.

Yaobing · « **Reply #7 on:** July 30, 2018, 11:07:06 am »

Considering that the "TV Channel Number" field is a user-editable field, I think it makes sense to offer a way to make such change in one shot, such as a right-click menu "Set TV Channel Number to sequence number". But this should never be done automatically every time you drag a channel to a different place.

One must remember "TV Channel number" is used when one uses a remote control to change channel. If you keep changing this field, you will have trouble remembering the numbers.

Yaobing · « **Reply #8 on:** July 30, 2018, 11:51:08 am »

Quote from: ABA on July 30, 2018, 09:02:24 am

5. I am based in Denmark, the signal is DVB-C which is captured by an HDHomeRun HDHR3-EU. All EPG data is delivered over the signal by my service provider. Data is very good quality and highly reliable. Today I use an external program to extract the data and put it in an XML-file for MC24 to import. The extraction process is run once every 24 hours using Windows Task Scheduler. Rather than having to use an external program to do this, I would like for MC itself to be able to extract EPG data (DVBLogic does this). Besides, the external program's setup also has to be maintained when my service provider rearranges their channel setup.

EPG scanning from EIT was introduced in MC22 for DVB tuners.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #9 on:** July 30, 2018, 05:45:31 pm »

You are making a lot of extra unnecessary work for yourself.

Quote from: ABA on July 29, 2018, 04:25:47 pm

3. & 4. Hmm.... Any TV set I have seen numbers the channels based on how the channels are sorted from top to buttom. Why would you need it any other way?

First, it sounds you have always expected a TV set to sort by channel number, and you are adding on top of that a sequence number... which in your examples matches the channel number. Lots of redundancy and extra work.

Second, why sort it any other way? Because the channel sequence is used in the EPG Guide display. I sort all my HD channels to the top of the list, hide duplicate SD channels, and sort other SD channels down the list. That way the channels I use most are at the top of the full Guide display, while those I watch infrequently are sorted further down. I could use a "Favourites" Guide, and I have one, but I tend to use the full channel list Guide rather than switch around.

My question back to you is, why would you sort by channel number, or worse add a sequence number to the process, when you can just drag and drop (or use the move up/down buttons) the channels into a more useful sequence and have MC display them in that sequence immediately, and stay that way if any other details of the channel changes?

You are not taking advantage of the functionality in MC. Old fashioned indeed. Try it the MC way and you will like it.

ABA · « **Reply #10 on:** July 31, 2018, 02:58:08 pm »

Quote from: Yaobing on July 30, 2018, 11:51:08 am

EPG scanning from EIT was introduced in MC22 for DVB tuners.

Oh - I think I had some problems setting up TV in the past including EPG, so I have gotten so used to setup EPG Collector that I compltely missed this functionality. Just tried the build in EIT scanner. It scanned the channels (took about 10 mins), but didn't come up with any data ("No information available for this program" all over the place).

ABA · « **Reply #11 on:** July 31, 2018, 04:14:37 pm »

Quote from: Yaobing on July 30, 2018, 11:01:19 am

"TV Channel Number" is not used as a sequence number. Your expectation is different.

For DVB channel scanning, if we find a channel number associated with the channel, we use it. It has nothing to do with how you order the channels. Usually it is aligned with what people traditionally associate with a particular channel. For example, in my town the PBS station was on channel 11. I call this channel "channel 11" no matter how I order my channels.

OK, I understand that the way I am using channel numbers (as ordinal numbers) is probably not how the majority does it. The reason I am doing it this way is that the channels numbers suggested by my service provider are hopeless and there is no association between these numbers and the channels. Hence I prefer to re-do the list.

Quote from: Yaobing on July 30, 2018, 11:07:06 am

Considering that the "TV Channel Number" field is a user-editable field, I think it makes sense to offer a way to make such change in one shot, such as a right-click menu "Set TV Channel Number to sequence number". But this should never be done automatically every time you drag a channel to a different place.

That would work.

Yaobing · « **Reply #12 on:** July 31, 2018, 06:23:02 pm »

Quote from: ABA on July 31, 2018, 02:58:08 pm

Oh - I think I had some problems setting up TV in the past including EPG, so I have gotten so used to setup EPG Collector that I compltely missed this functionality. Just tried the build in EIT scanner. It scanned the channels (took about 10 mins), but didn't come up with any data ("No information available for this program" all over the place).

I would like to figure out why. Can you send me a log file?

ABA · « **Reply #13 on:** August 14, 2018, 12:47:41 pm »

Quote from: Yaobing on July 31, 2018, 06:23:02 pm

I would like to figure out why. Can you send me a log file?

Log file attached.

ABA · « **Reply #14 on:** September 02, 2018, 11:56:41 am »

Have you had a chance to look into the issue?

Yaobing · « **Reply #15 on:** September 02, 2018, 03:22:25 pm »

Quote from: ABA on September 02, 2018, 11:56:41 am

Have you had a chance to look into the issue?

No I have not. I will next week.

Yaobing · « **Reply #16 on:** September 04, 2018, 05:11:51 pm »

I found and fixed a bug. Please try this DLL for 32bit version of MC.

You should install the latest 32 bit version of MC first (you are using build 45, and build 48 is available on MC24 board). Download the zipped file, unzip it, and copy Television.DLL into MC installation folder.

ABA · « **Reply #17 on:** September 05, 2018, 12:30:40 pm »

Great - it works!

Now I can skip EPG Collector and the maintenance of its XML frequency table. If you could implement NIT scan in MC, I could skip maintaining the XML frequency table for MC as well...

BTW, I have emailed my cable provider's frequency table a couple of times, but it doesn't seem to have made it into new releases yet...

When setting up TV Options/EPG guide originally, I set it to use XMLTV. In order to test the above I added OTA. Since the latter now seems to be working, I would like to delete XMLTV, but the user interface does not allow (it only allows editing). How do I delete XMLTV and keep OTA as the only guide mode?

Yaobing · « **Reply #18 on:** September 05, 2018, 01:00:40 pm »

Quote from: ABA on September 05, 2018, 12:30:40 pm

Great - it works!

Great. Thanks for reporting back.

Quote

Now I can skip EPG Collector and the maintenance of its XML frequency table. If you could implement NIT scan in MC, I could skip maintaining the XML frequency table for MC as well... BTW, I have emailed my cable provider's frequency table a couple of times, but it doesn't seem to have made it into new releases yet...

Sorry, I forgot. It will be added today for a future build.

Quote

When setting up TV Options/EPG guide originally, I set it to use XMLTV. In order to test the above I added OTA. Since the latter now seems to be working, I would like to delete XMLTV, but the user interface does not allow (it only allows editing). How do I delete XMLTV and keep OTA as the only guide mode?

You can edit the tuner profile that you originally setup. It is in Television options, lower portion of the window. Select it and click Configure button.

ABA · « **Reply #19 on:** September 05, 2018, 01:21:57 pm »

Quote from: Yaobing on September 05, 2018, 01:00:40 pm

Sorry, I forgot. It will be added today for a future build.

I hope you're referring to the NIT scan-part...

Quote from: Yaobing on September 05, 2018, 01:00:40 pm

You can edit the tuner profile that you originally setup. It is in Television options, lower portion of the window. Select it and click Configure button.

Thanks - got it.

Yaobing · « **Reply #20 on:** September 05, 2018, 04:53:31 pm »

Quote from: ABA on September 05, 2018, 01:21:57 pm

I hope you're referring to the NIT scan-part...

No, I did not forget the NIT scan, which I will do after my current project is finished. I just forgot the static table you sent me, which I now have added.

ABA · « **Reply #21 on:** September 13, 2018, 02:33:31 pm »

Quote from: Yaobing on September 04, 2018, 05:11:51 pm

I found and fixed a bug. Please try this DLL for 32bit version of MC.

You should install the latest 32 bit version of MC first (you are using build 45, and build 48 is available on MC24 board). Download the zipped file, unzip it, and copy Television.DLL into MC installation folder.

Has the new DLL-file been incorporated into new builds (49 and later)? Just tried going back to build 45 and updated to build 50, which results in the same 'no data'-issue referenced earlier in this thread. Putting the DLL back into place fixes the problem.

Yaobing · « **Reply #22 on:** September 13, 2018, 05:52:36 pm »

No. The fix will appear in build 51 or higher.

imeric · « **Reply #23 on:** December 29, 2018, 04:13:05 pm »

Quote from: ABA on July 29, 2018, 02:17:38 pm

Hi,
Please find below a couple of suggestions that could improve the smoothness of setting up TV in MC as I find the process rather tedious and the user interface out dated:
1. Implement NIT scan, so that users don't need to maintain the static XML frequency tables
2. Channel name should NOT have channel number as prefix
3. Moving channels up and down the channel list should change the channel number correspondingly
4. Manually re-assigning a channel number to a channel should offer to automatically re-assign the channel numbers of channels with greater channel numbers.
Thanks.
PS: Where can I upload a frequency table to have it included in future builds?

If it ain't broken don't fix it. Yes it is a bit tedious but it simply works! (Other softwares are too...)

ABA · « **Reply #24 on:** March 19, 2019, 04:57:11 pm »

Quote from: Yaobing on September 05, 2018, 04:53:31 pm

No, I did not forget the NIT scan, which I will do after my current project is finished. I just forgot the static table you sent me, which I now have added.

Has theNIT scan feature been implemented yet?

Yaobing · « **Reply #25 on:** March 19, 2019, 08:02:50 pm »

Quote from: ABA on March 19, 2019, 04:57:11 pm

Has theNIT scan feature been implemented yet?

Yes, it has been implemented last week, in MC25.

Yaobing · « **Reply #26 on:** March 20, 2019, 12:52:31 pm »

Quote from: Yaobing on March 19, 2019, 08:02:50 pm

Yes, it has been implemented last week, in MC25.

I should clarify that implementation was done for DVB-S and DVB-C tuners.

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Author Topic: Suggestions for making TV setup easier (Read 4481 times)