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Author Topic: Problem moving files  (Read 4140 times)

JustinChase

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Problem moving files
« on: November 21, 2018, 10:22:49 am »

I have a folder with a dozen music files and 10 jpg files (cover art, etc).  I rename, move, copy and check the box to move all files in the folder (even files not imported), but it only moves the music files, leaving the jpg files behind.
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Yaobing

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2018, 08:55:41 am »

I have a folder with a dozen music files and 10 jpg files (cover art, etc).  I rename, move, copy and check the box to move all files in the folder (even files not imported), but it only moves the music files, leaving the jpg files behind.

Please check the destination folder and verify that the coverart files are found there.

There is a difficult situation that we can not find easy solution.  Coverarts are sometimes shared.  It cost too much computer power to determine that each coverart image to be moved is not also shared by other music files.  So we decided to copy the image files instead of moving them.  The problem with this approach obviously is that we leave behind image files that are no longer needed.  But we thought this is the lesser of the two evils. 
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JustinChase

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2018, 09:29:38 am »

Please check the destination folder and verify that the coverart files are found there.

There is a difficult situation that we can not find easy solution.  Coverarts are sometimes shared.  It cost too much computer power to determine that each coverart image to be moved is not also shared by other music files.  So we decided to copy the image files instead of moving them.  The problem with this approach obviously is that we leave behind image files that are no longer needed.  But we thought this is the lesser of the two evils.

Sorry, but none of the art files moved, they were all left behind.

I'd prefer if the checkbox just did what it says, and that MC doesn't try to determine if it's the right thing to do or not.  If I check the box to move all files, I'd much prefer if MC just did exactly that.  If that breaks something, that's my fault.

I keep all albums in separate folders, so when I want to move music from that folder to it's final destination, it will also be a separate folder, so nothing (in my case) should be shared with any other music.  But even if it were, I should know from the wording of the checkbox, that it will get moved, and perhaps that might break a link.
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Yaobing

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2018, 12:46:56 pm »

The question of whether to copy or move the images aside, the only way the image files do not appear in the destination folder is if the images are saved internally in the audio files.  If the images are internal, regardless whether there are also an external image file in the folder or not, there is no need for an image file in the destination.

Can you describe your use case in more details?
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Yaobing

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2018, 01:50:56 pm »

If "Move all files in folder..." is checked, the image files are actually moved (not left in the old folder).
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swiv3d

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2018, 04:13:31 pm »

Seen a problem like this before where the art files had been imported into the library as images and then can't be moved when the audio file is moved using the F6 options even when the checkbox is selected.
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ferday

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2018, 05:06:39 pm »

my image (and log, etc.) files almost never move.  the feature has never worked right for me.  i periodically bring it up but it appears it works for others so it's never gone anywhere.

the new feature (copy image) works fine for me if there is only one image (i.e. cover.jpg) but it doesn't reliably copy more images (i.e. back.jpg)


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Yaobing

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2018, 07:09:29 pm »

Seen a problem like this before where the art files had been imported into the library as images and then can't be moved when the audio file is moved using the F6 options even when the checkbox is selected.

That is the way it should.  If the art has been imported, moving it would create problem for the imported item.

Sorry, but none of the art files moved, they were all left behind.

I'd prefer if the checkbox just did what it says, and that MC doesn't try to determine if it's the right thing to do or not.  If I check the box to move all files, I'd much prefer if MC just did exactly that.  If that breaks something, that's my fault.

I keep all albums in separate folders, so when I want to move music from that folder to it's final destination, it will also be a separate folder, so nothing (in my case) should be shared with any other music.  But even if it were, I should know from the wording of the checkbox, that it will get moved, and perhaps that might break a link.

Sorry, the "Copy instead of move" feature is actually new in build 61.  It would not have worked for build 60.  However, having the checkbox "Move All files..." checked should have worked even in earlier builds, except when the image has also been imported.  See my reply to swiv3d's post.
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swiv3d

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2018, 01:21:15 pm »

That is the way it should.  If the art has been imported, moving it would create problem for the imported item.
I never said it wasn't the way it should be - just indicating a possible explanation for the lack of movement, often people have import set up to take everything from a folder as the audio, video and images  import is the default situation and that is what leads to the problem later.
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JustinChase

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2018, 09:01:45 pm »

The question of whether to copy or move the images aside, the only way the image files do not appear in the destination folder is if the images are saved internally in the audio files.  If the images are internal, regardless whether there are also an external image file in the folder or not, there is no need for an image file in the destination.

Can you describe your use case in more details?

I think it's pretty straight forward.  I have a folder with 10 flac files and 5 jpg files in it.  The flac files are imported, the jpg image files are not imported.  I use move, rename, copy... to move the flac files to a new folder, and check the box to move all files, even not imported ones.  When the process completes, the original folder has 5 jpg files, and the new folder has 10 flac files.

What else would do you need me to test or provide to help troubleshoot?
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Yaobing

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2018, 05:42:07 pm »

What else would do you need me to test or provide to help troubleshoot?

I am at a loss.  We move the un-imported files even before we begin moving the imported media  files, when the check box is checked. 
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swiv3d

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2018, 05:51:42 pm »

I have moved a number of music folders recently and all of the non-imported files, jpgs, pdfs went with the audio files. It is worth checking in the import settings for your music folders that only audio is selected - otherwise by default everything in the folder gets imported into the library.
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JustinChase

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2018, 08:31:28 pm »

I'll check again, but I'm 90% sure the files were un-imported.

However, I want ALL files moved, imported or not.  If I have files with my music files, they go together, so if I move the music files, I need ALL the files moved with them.

I'm happy to check any disclaimer that this might break stuff, but I absolutely, definitely want to move all files in a folder if I move the music files; no exceptions.
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Yaobing

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2018, 09:01:14 am »

However, I want ALL files moved, imported or not. 


For imported files, all you need to do is to select them in the library and perform F6 on them.  Imported images, for example, are entries in the library of their own rights and should not be treated as part of the audio files.
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JustinChase

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2018, 09:16:19 am »

For imported files, all you need to do is to select them in the library and perform F6 on them.  Imported images, for example, are entries in the library of their own rights and should not be treated as part of the audio files.

I disagree here.

Music files with supporting images are a different thing than most other images in MC.  front and back covers and sleeves are common for albums, and it makes sense to store them in the same folder as the music files, but they should ALWAYS be treated as a group, and checking the box to move all files should do exactly what it says, and move ALL files from the folder.  It should not matter if they have been imported or not.

If this 'breaks' some other links in MC, too bad, it was a conscious decision to check the box, so one should expect them to have been moved.

Trying to protect us from accidentally breaking stuff is what is actually breaking stuff.  I would much prefer MC to just do what it says it will do and not try to "help me" in the background by not doing what it says it will do.
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JustinChase

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2018, 09:50:22 am »

I just did some testing.

I have 10 flac files and 4 other files in a folder.  None of the files are imported into MC.  I selected only the flac files and checked the box to move all files.  only the flac files moved.

I put all the files together again, still not imported, added a jpg file to the folder (now 5 non-flac files), moved only the flac files again, and it moved only the flac files, leaving all 5 other files in the folder.

I put all the files together again, and imported ONLY the flac files, moved, and it only moved the flac files.

I put all the files again once more, imported all the files, moved and it only moved the flac files.

Under no circumstances did it move the non-flac files.

Log file attached.

(the E:/ drive is an external SSD connected via USB cable)
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Yaobing

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2018, 12:44:55 pm »

Sorry for not getting to the log file sooner.  Unfortunately the operation of moving files is not logged and the log file does not provide any info.

The code for "Move all..." checkbox is straight forward.  It moves all files that are not part of the library into the new folder even before the audio files themselves are submitted to the database for moving.  The only thing that can prevent this from happening is if the folder has already been processed while the "Rename, Copy, ..." dialog is open (in other words, the folder is processed only once during a "Rename, Copy, ..." dialog session).
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JustinChase

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2018, 04:30:18 pm »

Ok.  How can I help troubleshoot.  It's not working for me, with any of the scenarios I listed.

Is there some specific test you'd like to me try, or a new build with more debugging enabled I can run for you?

I really would like this to work, because I have hundreds of folders that I need to get moved around, and having to go in later and move the non-music files is just not tenable.
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Yaobing

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2018, 05:28:36 pm »

I will add some logging for you to test.
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JustinChase

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2018, 07:09:19 pm »

Great.  Please just let me know if you need me to test anything specific, or just repeat what I did already once you have it ready.

Thanks
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ferday

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2018, 05:01:04 am »

as i said, it doesn't work for me either

images, logs, pdfs, etc. don't move.  i've gotten used to it and after lack of traction gave up on it.  but i'll keep in this thread and see if it can go somewhere this time
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fitbrit

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2018, 01:23:44 am »

Question: Were these auxiliary files ever imported? I mean imported, and then deleted from the library at some point?
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ferday

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2018, 05:10:36 am »

for myself, no

i use a special incoming folder that never imports anything but audio files. 
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Yaobing

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2018, 02:55:39 pm »

Please try this exe file.

Unzip it and copy to MC installation folder (64 bit version).

Start MC, turn on logging, and immediately try to move a few files from a folder that contains sidecar files (any files that are not part of the library).  Grab a log file afterward.
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JustinChase

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2018, 08:43:58 pm »

see attached log file, none of the other files were moved, only the music files.
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Yaobing

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2018, 10:04:19 pm »

see attached log file, none of the other files were moved, only the music files.

Strange.  Your log files (Previous Log.txt started logging at 9:30 pm and Log.txt started at 9:38 pm) do not contain any logging lines that I added.  ?
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JustinChase

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2018, 06:50:40 am »

Weird.

C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 24\MC24.exe is the file that existed in the JRiver folder before I downloaded, and is 649KB in size

I downloaded your file and put Media Center 24.exe (26,692KB) into that folder and double clicked it to launch MC.

I cleared the log, moved some files, and reported to get the log.

I just tried again, launching the much larger Media Center 24.exe file, clearing the log, moving files, and reporting.

Hopefully it works for you this time.

If not, maybe there is an alternative moving code that is getting used, and not the code you expect???
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Yaobing

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2018, 09:07:55 am »

Still not right.

C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 24\ folder should contain a file "Media Center 24.exe".  The file that I posted here should have replaced it when you copy the new file to the folder.  Once that is done, you can launch the application by double clicking either MC24.exe or "Media Center 24.exe".

Did you move audio files by:

1. Selecting audio files in a view;
2. right-clicking and selecting "Rename, Move, & Copy Files..." (or pressing F1)?

That would bring up the Rename, Move... dialog window, where you would check the checkbox "Move all files in folder...".

I am not aware of another method of moving files.

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JustinChase

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2018, 09:20:35 am »

Okay, I downloaded again and moved the new Media Center 24.exe file to the folder and tried again.

I pressed and held the left mouse button to lasso all the flac files, leaving 2 other files un-selected.  I right-clicked the selected files and chose Rename, Move, & Copy Files...    F6  and made sure the (Move all files...) button was checked.

It moved the flac files, but not the other files.

Log attached.
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Yaobing

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2018, 11:08:32 am »

Now we got it.

The folder in question contains 21 files.  19 of them are flac files.  The other two are txt and jpg files.

MC detected that all 21 files are in the library (i.e. they have previously been imported into MC), including the non-audio files.  That is why they are not moved.

We can debate whether this is the best behavior (I know you disagree with it), but that is the way it currently should work, and there is no bug.
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JustinChase

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2018, 11:36:59 am »

Except none of those files had ever been imported into MC.

The attached screen shots show a view of my entire library, with the completed downloads folder open, and the clash folder is not listed (it's not imported/in the library)

The next shot shows the clash folder under the completed download folder in device/explorer in MC

The last shot shows the files in this folder, right-click shows "Import into library" option available, which is not available once they have been imported.

So, MC thinks they are imported for some reason, but they are not.

And yes, I think the box should do what it says, no matter if the files are imported or not.  It's highly illogical to not so what it says, and try to be smarter than me.  But, that's not why this doesn't work, these files are not, nor have they every been imported into the library.
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Yaobing

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2018, 11:44:48 am »

How about looking for them under Images, and under Documents?
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Hendrik

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2018, 11:47:58 am »

Also in the "deleted" database if you ever removed them. Although if its only found in there, it should probably ignore the fact that its in the database.
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JustinChase

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #33 on: December 08, 2018, 11:50:17 am »

That view is listed under Video, but specifically shows everything in the library (no search criteria), see attached.

Also, my auto import rules don't include anything on my C drive, so there's no way anything could have imported in the background.

I assure you, they are not, and have never been imported into my library.
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JustinChase

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2018, 11:51:44 am »

Also in the "deleted" database if you ever removed them. Although if its only found in there, it should probably ignore the fact that its in the database.

I just double-checked, they are not there either.
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Yaobing

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2018, 12:02:13 pm »

Also in the "deleted" database if you ever removed them. Although if its only found in there, it should probably ignore the fact that its in the database.

We do exclude anything that is in "Removed" database.
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JustinChase

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2018, 12:10:17 pm »

We do exclude anything that is in "Removed" database.

They weren't there either, they had never been imported (still haven't)
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Hendrik

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2018, 12:12:40 pm »

I assure you, they are not, and have never been imported into my library.

Yet the log shows that Media Center tries to analyze the txt file. You didn't drag the whole folder into MC or something, did you?

There is a second hidden database, the "bad file" database. Maybe it ended up in there.
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JustinChase

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2018, 12:21:33 pm »

Nope.  I specifically and purposefully did not import these files.  i've checked the bad and removed databases, the auto import and the whole imported library.  These files never showed there and have never been imported.

I cannot say why MC thinks they are or were, but unless MC imports literally every single file on my computer, and keeps no record of if in any of these places, they are not imported files.
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Yaobing

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2018, 01:04:44 pm »

Nope.  I specifically and purposefully did not import these files.  i've checked the bad and removed databases, the auto import and the whole imported library.  These files never showed there and have never been imported.

I cannot say why MC thinks they are or were, but unless MC imports literally every single file on my computer, and keeps no record of if in any of these places, they are not imported files.

How did  you import the flac files in the first place?
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MikeO3

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2018, 02:38:42 pm »

Sorry for thread hi-jacking...

I know your trying to troubleshoot something different with a different .exe but this sounds familiar to the problem I reported in this post:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,118443.msg819376.html#msg819376

Pretty annoying there are hundreds of empty folders and files left out there for no reason. Moving files or Delete on Sync to do just that.</rant>
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JustinChase

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2018, 02:47:17 pm »

How did  you import the flac files in the first place?

I didn't
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Hendrik

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2018, 03:44:10 pm »

Some file would have to be imported for the Rename/Move dialog to make any sense. What would you otherwise target for the action?

Edit:
Oh I figured it out. You're using the Explorer view. When looking at such a view, MC temporarily "imports" all files shown in the view so it can get tags etc.
The move function should probably ignore that part of the database as well. More accurately, instead of allowing some files in some parts of the DB, it should probably disallow the "main" database instead. All normal media files should be in there. This solves various complications as well, like a file could be in the explorer database and the main database at the same time, when you're looking at a folder of files that was already imported.

But using the explorer view may cause other issues, like, it may try to move all files without first applying your rename template to them, because it doesn't consider them "protected".
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JustinChase

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2018, 04:28:58 pm »

I imported the flac files, then went into the audio section of the tree (not thru explorer in the tree), and tried again.  It still didn't move the other files.

Log attached.

I still think it should stop caring if they've been imported in any way and just do what it says, move all files in the folder.

Trying to be clever seems just as likely to break something as just moving all the files, and just doing what it says is at lease defensible if something does break.
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Yaobing

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2018, 05:14:27 pm »

I imported the flac files, then went into the audio section of the tree (not thru explorer in the tree), and tried again.  It still didn't move the other files.

Log attached.

I still think it should stop caring if they've been imported in any way and just do what it says, move all files in the folder.

Trying to be clever seems just as likely to break something as just moving all the files, and just doing what it says is at lease defensible if something does break.

The log shows that  C:\Verified\The Clash\London Calling\foo_dr.txt was still imported before you tried moving the audio files.
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Hendrik

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2018, 05:23:35 pm »

It probably remained in the Explorer database until it gets automatically purged at a later time.
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Yaobing

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2018, 05:24:54 pm »

It probably remained in the Explorer database until it gets automatically purged at a later time.

Do they get analyzed every time MC is started?
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RoderickGI

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2018, 08:29:16 pm »

Oh, this opened a can of worms for me.

I was just about to point out the inconsistency of claiming that nothing on the C: drive was ever imported, and then using a Video View within MC to prove that this was the case, as in the first image of this post: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,118352.msg819710.html#msg819710

Then this:
Oh I figured it out. You're using the Explorer view. When looking at such a view, MC temporarily "imports" all files shown in the view so it can get tags etc.

I always knew that the Files views only showed what had been imported into MC, and that the Explorer views showed everything. But I never knew that the Explorer views temporarily imported everything! I thought MC just scraped what it got from Windows using Windows APIs. Note I can see why it is done, as it does make viewing images and such without importing, and checking their tags, quite easy and handy.

That makes a huge difference, and this:
Do they get analyzed every time MC is started?
has a bunch of implication as well, such as would using an Explorer view, causing everything you look at to be imported, mean that everything is analysed, causing some of these unexplained slowdowns I (we) see on occasion?

As a surprise, and perhaps a hint to an answer to the above, while viewing my C:\Users\[User ID]\Pictures directory using an Explorer View, and leaving it sit there for a while, MC started downloading images from my skydrive.  :o


I will point out now that the view shown in the first image I mentioned above is, in fact, a Video view, and not an explorer view, and MC knows some about the C: drive in that view.

So I would assume that JustinChase has used an Explorer View, MC has imported the files temporarily, and then the Explorer database with all those files are now available to the Video View for display?

So I built a similar View, navigated my C: drive, specifically the C:\Users folder to pick up some images that have never been imported, and then checked in my new View if I could see those files. Nope.
Ah, but I hadn't included the "Location" column. So I added that, freshed everything, and I could see one part of the C:\Users directory, and drill down to the MC library backups. But nothing else. No Downloads folder with images in it.

So using the MC Explorer functionality didn't allow my Video View to see all the files using the Explorer Database, but did allow me to see one directory, the backups directory, and the files in it. EDIT: In fact it showed me that one sub-directory as the two backup files in it had been imported as Documents into MC in the past, and still were.

So I ask the question:
Why does JustinChase's Video View show the contents of his C: drive?   (Although it is a very limited amount of his C:\Users\Chris folder, and doesn't, for example, include the Music or Pictures sub-folders.)
I would suggest that the answer is that at least some files in the directories shown had been imported into MC in the past, and maybe still were. JustinChase, Drill down into the location and see what MC reports.
I imported one image from my C:\Users\[User ID]\Pictures directory, and it showed up in my new Video View, and in my Images view. I deleted that image from the MC Library, and it disappeared from all views.

JRiver: Was the RM&CF function ever intended to be used on non-imported files, via an Explorer View?


Answers:
Don't use an Explorer View for moving files, or if you do, expect the results reported. Particularly when trying to move files that have not been imported.
If a Location shows up in the "Video > all Library View", then something in that location has been imported into MC, and still is.




Like I said: Can of worms!
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

JustinChase

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2018, 10:28:30 pm »

The log shows that  C:\Verified\The Clash\London Calling\foo_dr.txt was still imported before you tried moving the audio files.

So, can we please just stop excluding imported files from being moved if the box is checked, to save us from I don't know what?

What would really break if you just move everything; like the box says?

It seems I'd have to set up specific rules to import ONLY music files in downloaded folders automatically, and can never look at them in explorer, or will have to manually delete from the database non-music files (which may not work) to have this check box do what it says it will do.  That's a lot of hoop jumping, don't you think?

I'm a big boy, if I check a box that says move everything, and you, in fact, move everything, I have no basis for complaint, right?  So please just do this. 

As Jim often says 'MC usually does exactly what you tell it to do'.  I prefer that it does so.
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Hendrik

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Re: Problem moving files
« Reply #49 on: December 09, 2018, 03:09:18 am »

Moving files that MC knows about and then potentially losing track of them has far more chances of losing some data then simply not moving a file sometimes.
The case with the explorer views is just a bug and will be fixed, don't get hung up on that.
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