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Author Topic: Distortion with JRiver Equalizer [Solved]  (Read 3813 times)

Josz27

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Distortion with JRiver Equalizer [Solved]
« on: February 24, 2019, 09:05:09 pm »

Hi, a +1db (in for example 170HZ)it's enough to generate distortion in bass or other frequences in some songs, No matter if I use the graphic equalizer, parametric equalizer, ASIO, WASAPI, Direct sound as sound output, DACS:My own laptop dac, HRT Microstreamer, SMLS M6, Headphones: AD900X, HD598, HD700, AD2000X. Don't tell me that ALL my dacs and headphones tested are defective, tested in 3 laptops. Why this happens? It also happens with the mids , for example a boost of 2db at 2500hz generates distortion.
How Can I Solve this? I Don't want to use APO equalizer, I Don't like how it sounds Lol. 
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Matt

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Re: Distortion with JRiver Equalizer
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2019, 09:12:14 pm »

You could just reduce the volume a little with the DSP then apply your equalizer.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

Josz27

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Re: Distortion with JRiver Equalizer
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2019, 09:20:56 pm »

What do you mean? I use only 25% of the general volume, with clip protection, And I still get a lot of distortion.
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Matt

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Re: Distortion with JRiver Equalizer
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2019, 09:43:04 pm »

Then switch to Internal Volume and the clipping should be fixed.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

Josz27

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Re: Distortion with JRiver Equalizer
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2019, 11:14:16 pm »

I switched to internal volume and the "clipping" it's still there. I have a track that I use for reference, it's only a segment of like 10 seconds(no vocal, only bass).
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Mike48

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Re: Distortion with JRiver Equalizer
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2019, 12:39:08 am »

I use the DSP in MC and never have had this problem. It's hard to guess where the distortion is arising, but many DACs overload with any digital over-range at all. To follow up on what Matt suggested, if you are using a boost at any frequencies, it's best practice to cut the overall level in the equalizer settings by at least the amount of the largest boost. (That would be the "preamp" slider in the Equalizer DSP feature.) If that doesn't fix it, I'm at a loss.

I have had trouble with a few MC features, but EQ and PEQ have so far worked flawlessly for me.
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Josz27

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Re: Distortion with JRiver Equalizer
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2019, 06:17:08 pm »

Can you tell me how I access to the "preamp"? I don't see any, of course foobar has one but JRiver?...
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swiv3d

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Re: Distortion with JRiver Equalizer
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2019, 06:31:49 pm »

Have you tried these files in a different player - perhaps the files themselves have the clipping effect - I have suffered from clipped file distortion which was in the files themselves. Perhaps irrelevant but who knows? You can use Audacity to look at the files to see if clipping in the original is the problem.
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Mike48

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Re: Distortion with JRiver Equalizer
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2019, 06:39:18 pm »

Can you tell me how I access to the "preamp"? I don't see any, of course foobar has one but JRiver?...

On my display of MC, and I hope yours, there are three icons near the top right. One is to adjust repeat, the middle one to adjust shuffle, and the right one looks at the audio path.  Click the right one, and a dialog will open. Near the top left is a button labeled "DSP Studio...". Click that.

In the DSP Studio that opens, you select modules on the left and adjust their settings in the rest of the window.

If you are using JRiver MC's preset EQ bands, check "Equalizer" on the left. The left-hand slider is the Preamp adjustment. Set to cut by 3 dB more than the maximum boost.

If you are using your own Parametric EQ bands, click "Parametric Equalizer" instead. The first filter you should generate is one to "Adjust Volume." Set to cut by 3 dB more than the maximum boost, and make sure you have applied it to all channels.

Hope that helps.
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Josz27

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Re: Distortion with JRiver Equalizer
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2019, 06:58:26 pm »

Damm man, I was blind to not see "pre-amp" there, Sorry LOL.  Now it does not distort(yeah tested the song before with Foobar and EQ and it was not the song problem), I have been using the JRiver EQ for a lot of time, but I did not know about this. Thank you very much, SOLVED
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Mike48

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Re: Distortion with JRiver Equalizer
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2019, 08:29:33 pm »

Glad I could help; and thanks for letting everyone know it's solved.
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RD James

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Re: Distortion with JRiver Equalizer
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2019, 03:16:06 am »

You could just reduce the volume a little with the DSP then apply your equalizer.
Shouldn't the equalizer only be applying negative adjustments, no matter what the GUI says?
If I boost 1kHz by 12dB, it should really be applying -12dB to all other frequencies instead of actually increasing 1kHz by 12dB, since that is likely to distort.
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mwillems

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Re: Distortion with JRiver Equalizer
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2019, 06:53:54 pm »

Shouldn't the equalizer only be applying negative adjustments, no matter what the GUI says?
If I boost 1kHz by 12dB, it should really be applying -12dB to all other frequencies instead of actually increasing 1kHz by 12dB, since that is likely to distort.

That behavior would only make sense if you're playing at or near maximum volume, otherwise MC would just be throwing overhead/dynamic range away for no benefit in ways that would not be apparent to users trying to calibrate their volume levels (adding general boost in PEQ to a channel to level match it with other channels would have no effect!).  It would also need to sum all the various effects and predict what intersample peaks in overlapping ranges might look like, because none of the equalizers operate only on their setpoint frequencies.  In effect, this is what clip protection already does in real time; tries to detect and correct for overages as they happen based on actual output, but otherwise leaves things alone.

It might make sense to do what you're describing in the graphic equalizer if for no other reason it could be easily shown to the user (i.e. the preamp slider would start descending as the user raised sliders).  In the general case, though, I think it's better for the DSP (at least in the parametric EQ) to do what it says on the tin, rather than implementing secret workarounds that are likely to have unintended consequences
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RD James

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Re: Distortion with JRiver Equalizer
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2019, 12:00:22 pm »

That behavior would only make sense if you're playing at or near maximum volume, otherwise MC would just be throwing overhead/dynamic range away for no benefit in ways that would not be apparent to users trying to calibrate their volume levels (adding general boost in PEQ to a channel to level match it with other channels would have no effect!).  It would also need to sum all the various effects and predict what intersample peaks in overlapping ranges might look like, because none of the equalizers operate only on their setpoint frequencies.  In effect, this is what clip protection already does in real time; tries to detect and correct for overages as they happen based on actual output, but otherwise leaves things alone.

It might make sense to do what you're describing in the graphic equalizer if for no other reason it could be easily shown to the user (i.e. the preamp slider would start descending as the user raised sliders).  In the general case, though, I think it's better for the DSP (at least in the parametric EQ) to do what it says on the tin, rather than implementing secret workarounds that are likely to have unintended consequences
Most EQs work like this. You aren't throwing away dynamic range by creating an EQ that automatically normalizes itself so that it cannot clip.
Perhaps there could be some interaction with MC's internal volume if it is being used however.
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DKeith22

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Re: Distortion with JRiver Equalizer
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2023, 05:44:28 pm »

Damm man, I was blind to not see "pre-amp" there, Sorry LOL.  Now it does not distort(yeah tested the song before with Foobar and EQ and it was not the song problem), I have been using the JRiver EQ for a lot of time, but I did not know about this. Thank you very much, SOLVED
Me too.  I saw the preamp but did not realize that was the solution. Glad to verify it through this chat! Also, glad you verified the preamp actually solved this issue after adjustment.
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