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[macdonjh]

MC25 says that my Main Library is located here:
…/Library/Application Support/J River/Media Center 25/Library/

But according to the Finder, that folder does not exist.  The closest I can find is:
…/MC Library/Application Support/JRiver/Media Center 24/Library/

So, where is my library file, really?  Is a library actually a single file, or is it a collection of files in a folder called, "Cache"?

[bob]

MC25 says that my Main Library is located here:
…/Library/Application Support/J River/Media Center 25/Library/

But according to the Finder, that folder does not exist.  The closest I can find is:
…/MC Library/Application Support/JRiver/Media Center 24/Library/

So, where is my library file, really?  Is a library actually a single file, or is it a collection of files in a folder called, "Cache"?

It's a collection of files.
It's in your HOME FOLDER underneath that path.
/Users/[YourUserName]/Library/Application Support/J River/Media Center 25/Library/

[blgentry]

I'll add a few things to this:

1.  In your home folder the Library folder is HIDDEN.  It can be turned back on in Finder in various ways.  But it's easiest just to go directly to it with the menu item Go > Go To Folder

In the box that pops up, put in this:

Code: [Select]

~/Library
That will open your Library folder and put you in it so you can see all of it's contents and navigate normally from there.  The special character ~ is a shortcut for "my home directory.

2.  What are you trying to do that requires you to know the contents of the MC library folder?  It's fine to look at it and fine to have curiosity about it.  But I suspect that you are trying to get something done.  Just wondering if we can help you get your task accomplished.  Because working on, or manipulating, the library files is not a good idea.   They are not human readable.

Good luck to you.

Brian.

[macdonjh]

blgentry,

I absolutely do not intend to change anything in my Library.  I just want to see it, as you said, from curiosity.

The reason for my curiosity is I want to implement a suggestion you gave me months ago: create a "sandbox" library I can use to experiment with things without affecting my main library.  What I don't want to do is create a bunch of duplicate files that will clutter everything up.  I think I have a plan that will prevent that:

A new folder called SANDBOX that I'll copy files into for experiment purposes.
A new LIBRARY called SANDBOX (clever, huh?) that I'll use for experiment purposes.  If I don't like results I can undo, delete or clear the SANDBOX library, and I can also delete files copied into the SANDBOX folder without affecting my actual media library.

[macdonjh]

I do have another question about files in MC: what is the cache?  I have this:
...Users/[Username]/MC Library/Application Support/JRiver/Media Center xx/Library/Cache/File List Sort/Cache.dat
What is that?

I also have several dozen .jmd files in the Library folder.  What are those?

[blgentry]

I do have another question about files in MC: what is the cache?  I have this:
...Users/[Username]/MC Library/Application Support/JRiver/Media Center xx/Library/Cache/File List Sort/Cache.dat

Hmm, that's a bit odd.  You seem to have found the MC Library directory, but it's not in the right place.  JMD files are MC library files.  That cache directory and the contents you list are in my MC Library directory.

The words are very confusing here.  Let me explain:

1.  On a Mac, the Library directory, which is located in each user's home directory, is a place to store "special" files.  Mostly files that are used by Apps.  But also stuff that Mac OS uses.  Preferences and that kind of thing.
2.  There's also a Library directory on almost every Mac at /Library , which is NOT in any users' home directory.  This is kind of a "master" or "default" Library directory.
3.  As if that's not confusing enough, MC calls it's database a "Library".  On Mac, JRiver has chosen to put this MC specific database (which it calls a Library) in a subdirectory of the user's Library directory:  <userdir>/Library/Application Support/J River/Media Center 25/Library/

That last one, the JRiver Library (database) is where the JMD files are.  These hold all the metadata about your default MC collection.

However, as you have pointed out, you can create more than one MC Library.  Your proposed "sandbox" library is a good example.  You can put the database files (JMDs) for this Library in any EMPTY directory that you want.  I have chosen to put my MC Libraries into:

<user dir>/Documents/JRiver/Libraries/<library directory name goes here>

In your case the library directory name would probably be "sandbox" and you would create it fresh, with nothing it in, just before telling MC that you wanted a new library there.  MC would then create fresh JMD files and dump them in there to hold your Sandbox library.

This topic, as I have mentioned, gets a bit confusing. The overlapping words don't make it any easier.  I hope I have helped to clear this up, but I would understand if you have more questions now.

Good luck.

Brian.

[macdonjh]

Thanks again.  I'll have to read through your post a couple of times to be sure I understand it.

I've found some of what you describe:
Macintosh HD/Library/…
Macintosh HD/Users/[username]/Library/Application Support/J River/Media Center 25/Library there are .jmd files here

What I don't find is this:
Macintosh HD/Users/[username]/Library  what I find instead is:
Macintosh HD/Users/[username]/MC Library/Application Support/JRiver/   there are subfolders here for MC 21 and MC24, must be relics.


I wanted to keep my library folders in the same general location, so now I know the path, I can create:
.../Library/Application Support/J River/Media Center 25/Library/Sandbox  and have MC25 put all the sandbox .jmd files there.

[macdonjh]

Worked like a charm, almost.

When I created my new MC Library, Sandbox, and opened it, MC told me the file would be opened in Read Only and changes will be lost upon exit.  True to its word, MC showed me an empty Library when I closed then reopened Sandbox.  Is that because I have it as a subfolder to my main library?

Other than that, the experiment worked well.  Thank you for your help.

[blgentry]

[/b]What I don't find is this:
Macintosh HD/Users/[username]/Library  what I find instead is:
Macintosh HD/Users/[username]/MC Library/Application Support/JRiver/   there are subfolders here for MC 21 and MC24, must be relics.

As I mentioned before, <userdir>/Library is HIDDEN.  You must enable access to it, or directly go to it using Finder's Go > Go To Folder menu item.

The path "<userdir>/MC Library/" is not standard.  I suspect you created this somehow, but I can't be sure.  I know it's not on my Macs and I've had MC for Mac since version 20.

I wanted to keep my library folders in the same general location, so now I know the path, I can create:
.../Library/Application Support/J River/Media Center 25/Library/Sandbox  and have MC25 put all the sandbox .jmd files there.

This is a very bad idea.  You need to create new MC Libraries in empty directories.  If you try to put one library in a subdirectory of another library, you are effectively mixing them together a bit.  Because each MC Library folder has it's own subdirectories.

You might want to establish a new master location for all of your libraries.  You would create new libraries there and move your existing library there also.  That's how my main MC for Mac machine works:  I cloned the main library into a new folder in my new master location for all libraries: 
<userdir>/Documents/JRiver/Libraries/Main
Then other subdirectories like:
<userdir>/Documents/JRiver/Libraries/Joes Library/
<userdir>/Documents/JRiver/Libraries/Video Test/

etc.

Each one has their own outer folder so they are not mixed or overlapping.

You can leave your main library right where it is if you want, and just create your sandbox library in a different location.  That's less work, though it will not consolidate them all under one directory tree.

Brian.

[macdonjh]

As I mentioned before, <userdir>/Library is HIDDEN.  You must enable access to it, or directly go to it using Finder's Go > Go To Folder menu item.
I used Go > Go To Folder menu item to get to the Library folder.

The path "<userdir>/MC Library/" is not standard.  I suspect you created this somehow, but I can't be sure.  I know it's not on my Macs and I've had MC for Mac since version 20.
I have no idea how this folder got on my machine.  I don't remember creating it on purpose.  I guess I will leave it alone for now.

This is a very bad idea.  You need to create new MC Libraries in empty directories.  If you try to put one library in a subdirectory of another library, you are effectively mixing them together a bit.  Because each MC Library folder has it's own subdirectories.
I didn't put my new SANDBOX library in the same folder as my MC-created main library.  See below:

You might want to establish a new master location for all of your libraries.  You would create new libraries there and move your existing library there also.  That's how my main MC for Mac machine works:  I cloned the main library into a new folder in my new master location for all libraries: 
<userdir>/Documents/JRiver/Libraries/Main
Then other subdirectories like:
<userdir>/Documents/JRiver/Libraries/Joes Library/
<userdir>/Documents/JRiver/Libraries/Video Test/

I did this.  My MC-created Main Library is in folder /JRiver//Media Center 25/Library
My SANDBOX library is in folder /JRiver/Media Center 25/Library/ Sandbox

Each one has their own outer folder so they are not mixed or overlapping.

You can leave your main library right where it is if you want, and just create your sandbox library in a different location.  That's less work, though it will not consolidate them all under one directory tree.

Brian.

[/size]

[macdonjh]

I'll keep an eye on MC performance, though.  Perhaps I'll end up creating a dedicated folder for Libraries like you did.  I don't think what I did has any adverse effect, though.

[blgentry]

If I'm reading correctly, your Sandbox is a subdirectory of your Main library.  They need to be parallel, not nested.

The Library folders contain subdirectories of their own (like "cache").  I think that MC locks the whole directory when a library is open.  That's why you got the "read only all changes will be lost" message.

That's my advice.  Do what you think is best.

Brian.

[VoiceCoil]

I'm glad this issue was brought up, as I have for quite some time now trying the add a 2nd library to MC25 with very bad results. Libraries are interfering with each other when I switch from one to another, messing up the display views I have set up in each one. I believe I've got libraries in the wrong locations. Rather than go into great detail of what I've tried, I'll just tell you what I want to do. I have a simple setup, consisting of Music .mp3 files, which I have had working reasonably well since I started using MC. I now have a set of .mp3 Sermon audio files for which I want to create another library on the same local SSD on my MBP, and be able to switch between the two 'on the fly' thru File>Library> Music Library (or) Sermon Library, as I have named them. My questions are simply these:
1. Where does the Main Library belong, and will it take care of both media libraries?
2. Where do the individual Music and Sermon Libraries belong so there is no mixing or interference when I switch from one to another?
3. Where do the Library Backups for each Library belong?

[RoderickGI]

Unless you have an unusual reason VoiceCoil, creating a separate Library is the wrong solution.

Just import all your Music and Sermons into one Library, then modify your Music Views to exclude Sermons, or perhaps better only include media files with a [Media Sub Type] of "Music", and make sure all your Music has that field set correctly. Then create new Views that just show your Sermons. My preferred method would be to set the [Media Sub Type] to "Sermon". That value isn't available in MC at the moment, so you could use "Other" or similar. Something that you aren't using elsewhere, and makes sense.

Or you could ask JRiver to add "Sermon" to the possible values that the [Media Sub Type] can be set to. That seems a reasonable request.

[VoiceCoil]

I don't know what you mean when you say that creating a separate Library is the wrong solution RoderickGI. Why?

According to the documentation accompanying MC, adding a library is possible, switching between them is possible and setting their views is possible, so why not use these capabilities? Your suggestions are more complicated than what I want.

I'm not comfortable with round-about methods of doing things. I just want to understand the functions that are described up front in MC25's interface as they are plainly presented. I want to be able to use the built-in abilities of this software to keep both Music and Sermons completely separate with their own libraries and setting and easily switch between them with minimal effort. Is this not possible?

I think MC is excellent software and want to get the most out of its elegant simplicity.  If you are able to answer my questions I would be very grateful.

[RoderickGI]

No offence intended. It is a reasonable request. Yes, your question was directly related to the preceding discussion.

If you wish to create separate Libraries, then I will leave it to Brian to explain the details for a Mac, as I am a Windows only user these days. On Windows creating separate Libraries is extremely easy. It seems on a Mac the issues Brian has been talking about make it a little more difficult.

My point was, in most case where people want to create a separate Library it is the wrong approach to take. For example, would you create a separate library for your MP3 files and your FLAC files? Or a separate Library for your Audio files and Video files? Usually, the answer is no.

Creating Views to separate your Music from Sermons is very easy, and a basic part of MC functionality. It is not a round-about solution. It is core to how MC works. Sure, there is a small learning curve, but it isn't too bad and people on the forum will help when it is asked for. The method I was suggesting could result in the left Navigation bar in you MC installation showing, for example and simplified;
Audio
   Albums
   Artists
   Sermons

Or you could even customise MC so show;

Music
   Albums
   Artists
Sermons

Then there would be no need to switch Libraries. You would simply click on the Sermons View to see all your sermons, and the other Views to see your music.

Having separate, multiple Libraries usually means duplication of effort. That is the main reason for not doing it. But I guess if you never customise anything in MC, and just use the standard Views always, then a separate Library would keep your Music and Sermons separate.

Entirely up to you. 

[JimH]

Voicecoil,
RoderickGI is giving you good advice.  Why not try it?

[blgentry]

I now have a set of [/font].mp3 Sermon audio files for which I want to create another library on the same local SSD on my MBP, and be able to switch between the two 'on the fly' thru File>Library> Music Library (or) Sermon Library, as I have named them.

What you propose should work just fine with no "mixing" or "interference" between the libraries.  Switching libraries should be easy, but might take 10 seconds or so for each library to load.  The main disadvantages of what you propose are:

1.  Slow switching between libraries.  With views it's nearly instant.
2.  Duplication of settings, views, and other common things between libraries.  You'll have to manually update each one if you change a preference or setting, or column layout, etc in either library.

I would lean towards using one Library and using Views to separate Music from Sermons.  But you can do it either way.  It's your choice and MC can do both.

On to your questions:

1. Where does the Main Library belong, and will it take care of both media libraries?

It can go in any empty directory.  I've listed the default path above several times.  You can keep the Main library there for simplicity.

NO:  It will not hold both Libraries.  Each Library requires it's own separate directory.  Understand that I am talking about the MC database, which is called a Library.  NOT the media files.  Media files can be anywhere, though you probably want them separated at the top level into "Sermons" and "Music".

2. Where do the individual Music and Sermon Libraries belong so there is no mixing or interference when I switch from one to another?

As I stated above, one way to do it is to establish a new top level directory for Libraries.  For example:

<your user directory>/Documents/J River/Libraries/

So your sermons library would live in:

<your user directory>/Documents/J River/Libraries/sermons/

Setting up the Sermons Library is easy.  Just add a new library with:
file > Library > Library Manager > add library > Local library > Path > browse > (go to the location listed above)

Getting your main library moved is not as easy.  MC does not have a supported way of fully moving a library.  You kind of need to create a clone or a fresh library, make sure it works, and then delete the original.  I'm not going to go into detail because it requires so many steps.  I don't want to confuse things.   I would leave your main library right where it is for now, assuming it works correctly.

3. Where do the Library Backups for each Library belong?

Library backup location are set by this option:

Tools > Options > File Location > Program Files > Library Backups > (path here)

You can use the same path for all libraries if you want.  Because MC will make backup ZIP files that have the name of the library and the date in the file name.  So it's easy to know which one is which.  Or you can put them in different locations if you want.   Just set the option appropriately in each individual library.  I would personally leave it set as is.

Brian.

[chrisc]

JRiver (program) is on the computer's main drive.  The music is stored on an external drive

I needed to make a new library with some music stored instead on the computer's main drive, as I need to do a demo where I cannot take the external drive

JR placed the newly created library files on the external drive, so when I start JR without the external HDD plugged in, it cannot find the library and stops

How may a library location be moved from the external HDD to the computer's HDD?   I tried copying it over and making a new library, but it wants to look at the external location

Thank you

[JimH]

Take a look at File Locations in MC Options.

[blgentry]

chrisc:

Do you really mean the Library?  The internal Database files?  Or do you mean the music files?  Or both?

Giving us the error messages you see might help.  You might also describe what you have done so far.

Brian.

[chrisc]

Well, I suppose its the library

I needed to make a new library and was prompted to create an empty folder.  This by mistake went on the external drive. When MC opens up, I see this message



and then this one



The music I need to play is on the computer's HDD.   The Mac sees the external drive as \Volumes\Media.  I see the Main Library is in the Documents folder on the actual computer.  The external HDD with the music on is in another country

[blgentry]

To resolve the issue of your library being on an external drive, you need the library data.  You can get that data from the external drive by plugging it in and then opening MC.  I'm sure you knew that.     You can then run a procedure to move it from external to an internal drive.

But maybe there's an easier way.  MC makes library backups, of any library that is open, every couple of days.  If you had that library open for a while, a backup was probably made.  So, you can use that backup to restore into a brand new library, on your internal drive.  An outline of the process is:

1.  Go find where backups are stored:  Tools > Options > File Location > Program Files > Library Backups .  Navigate to this folder in Finder and you should see a bunch of backup files with the Library name in their file name.  Assuming you have a good backup of your external library, move to the next step.
2.  Create a brand new empty library:  File > Library > Library manager > Add Library .  Make sure to make a new folder on your internal drive to hold this new library.  Give it a descriptive name.
3.  Once that new library is created, MC will switch to it and it should be totally empty.  Let's restore your external library into it:  File > Library > Restore Library > (pick the backup file for your external library)

Once this completes, you should see all of your files.   But I honestly didn't understand the rest of what you said with the files being in another country.  If your computer can see the files, then MC should be able to and you'll be fine.  If the files are not accessible to your Mac, then MC can't see them.

I hope this helps get you going.

Brian.